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Re: HFL Central Division

Clint Alleway to ironbank :)

Ironbank must have more money than sense.

What a depressing way to build a club, spend heaps of cash to recruit mercenary SANFL players (in this case, one with a terrible disciplinary record). You now have two A-graders in your team who are one major suspension away from being de-registered from the sport forever,

I know for a fact there are life-long Ironbank teenagers playing in your B Grade team that are becoming increasingly frustrated.

There's two ways to build a club. You could try the approach that some other teams such as Lobethal, Hahndorf and Bridgewater are taking and backing in your own youth. The Raiders team that defeated Onkas yesterday had 8 local 18 year old lads playing.
by Elmer J Thudpucker
Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:08 am
 
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Re: HFL Central Division


I was just think the exact opposite. Imagine if either Onka Valley or Hahndorf went down to Country Division? I think that would be an absolute disaster for the HFL. Both have a week A grade side this year but are strong in all other grades. Hahndorf probably have the strongest junior club in the HFL and even have 2 under 13 and under 15 sides!

Similar to Mount Lofty going down

Actually, nothing like Mt Lofty at all.

Lofty were poor across most grades last year, hence they finished bottom of the total points ladder (in addition to winning the A and B grade wooden spoons). If they were strong in all other grades they would have stayed up.
by Elmer J Thudpucker
Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:37 pm
 
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Re: HFL Central Division

Agree the Callington surface will be the best come finals time but the facilities are not up to hosting a final, let alone the GF. I believe the Mt Barker council is going to spend a heap of money there over the summer to upgrade facilities which would then make it suitable for all finals. Definitely the best place to hold the modis carnivals though.

Surely it's the state of the surface that must be the prime factor for consideration when holding finals?

Ask the coaches and players what they want and I'm sure they'd say they want to play on a surface is large, flat and covered in grass. The fact that the Callington change rooms are from the 1960s wouldn't bother them. In fact, the Onkas and Hahndorf away rooms are similarly very basic.

The Callington Oval was good enough to host a Preliminary Final in 2013, with extra portable toilets brought in and a bar/bbq/canteen erected on the outer wing (again, exactly the same as to what Hahndorf do in finals).

I can understand if Lobethal and Callington have been overlooked as they had finals in 2013 and the HFL want to share the spoils, but can anyone remember when Hahndorf and/or Onkas have ever missed out on a final ??

All I'm saying is let the surface dictate where the finals are played (as it turns out, mother nature may take over anyway and force the hand of the HFL).
by Elmer J Thudpucker
Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:49 pm
 
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Re: HFL Central Division

interesting isnt it. We have 2 clubs in echunga and TV who spend the bucks and have half decent a grade sides yet crap junior programs. Will it be that when they play in a few weeks time that the winner of the a grade game will determine who gets relegated ? One would think TV would win the first 4 games that day so if they won the a grade game echunga would be staring relegation in the face. Clubs like Bridgy and Ironbank and Onkas will be fine even if they dont win many a grade games as they have developed their kids and get an even points spread in the MC shield. They dont deserve to get relegated as they will be strong clubs in the next year or 2 due to their good local content coming along. It will be a great last 5 weeks of the season.

I can only assume you're stirring the pot here. If there was one club in the HFL that meets the definition of spending big bucks on A grade with poor junior programs it would be Uraidla.

If you're not stirring the pot, the you might want to consider the words pot, kettle, black.
by Elmer J Thudpucker
Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:46 pm
 
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Re: HFL Central Division

Mount Torrens oval - what a joke.
Just saw some pics on facebook of U15's & U17's. Hate to think how bad it was for the A's. When they merge with Birdwood they'll have 3 ovals to choose from so hopefully they can save 1 for games during winter.

In 2012 the Bridgewater Oval suffered badly from rain deluges in the week before two consecutive home games and the oval became unplayable. The club made a decision (in conjunction with the HFL) to move the remaining home games to an alternative venue.

Having seen Mt Torrens oval first-hand a fortnight ago, and then seeing the photos on the LFC pages, I think a similar decision must be forced upon TV.
by Elmer J Thudpucker
Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:25 pm
 
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Re: HFL Central Division

Must be a full moon - so many ridiculous posts with drama queen overtones.

Legs Man - the reason Echunga are even in Central Division is because a majority of the Clubs wanted the HFL to act in accordance with the by-laws. That's why they voted to make Mt Lofty go down - to honour the by-laws. So it follows that if the by-laws are good enough to get you promoted, then they're certainly good enough to see you relegated if you finish bottom of the points table - simple. Your club knew the rules of relegation before the season started.

I note you state that TV were given a 2 year moratorium to stay in Central. 100% Incorrect, Why invent a fact to support your argument when it's clearly not true? If TV had of finished bottom in their first year up, then they would have come down. As it turned out, no team in Country asked to come up that year anyway.
You also answered your own question when you talk about the cost to "finance" the A grade team as a reason to downplay the points given for junior teams. You do see your flawed logic don't you? The strength of a club is more than the size of their cheque book. Hahndorf are likely to win the A grade wooden spoon this year yet are also likely to win all 3 junior premierships. Surely the fact that Echunga are paying more than Hahndorf for A grade wins doesn't mean they need to be given a concession. Despite Echunga playing A grade finals and Hahndorf likely to win the spoon, I know which club is stronger.

Finally, Looks Good in Leather - surprised you think Bridgewater are in danger given they have to play Uraidla and Echunga, so between the senior colts and B grade will be over 150 points without much effort.
by Elmer J Thudpucker
Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:06 pm
 
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Re: HFL Central Division

Fair call re timeframe - and yes we had started planning - but letting parents and prospective recruits know that late (DEC) immediately puts you at a disadvantage.

I reckon that if all current Central sides were told they cant recruit until after the DEC. AGM there would be a mutiny.

Understand that you can try and recruit earlier - but the uncertainty in players eyes makes it very difficult.

We nearly even lost some club bred players who were wanting to play at the higher level as we couldn't guarantee our position.

This is a problem with the promotion / relegation system - and we aren't the only club to encounter it - which isn't equitable.

How can you tell recruits we are playing in Central when the decision is still hanging on special meetings etc.

Lets see how things play out over the next few weeks - with our hope being to play in Central in 2015.

Legs man
I have two differing views on the current situation that your club may find itself in.

If everything else was equal, I’d say that the by-laws have to decide who goes down, and whatever club finishes bottom just has to suck it up.

Unfortunately, everything isn’t equal, which means that the relegation issue is being compromised in 2014. Let me give examples how:
• Torrens Valley are playing with 18 points a game, as the HFL decided to give them additional points – this is unfair on every other club.
• Torrens Valley are being allowed to field junior teams that contain up to 6 players on permits. That is, a lad who should be playing U15s is also allowed to play U13s (as an overage player), or a lad who should be playing U17s is also allowed to play U15s. This is a blatant disregard of the reasons why permits are given, and TV are using this to ensure they get teams on the park each week, which has in turn resulted in them winning important junior points in the relegation battle. Again, the HFL accept this is wrong but are unable/unwilling to act on it.

Add to the mix the fact that TV can’t even field one team in the modified carnival, and you can understand why many of us are just left shaking our heads.
by Elmer J Thudpucker
Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:18 pm
 
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Re: HFL Central Division

I know the others were paid, because I was the one writing the cheques at that time.

Toot Toot - with respect, you may have been writing cheques for earlier years, but you were not writing the cheques for these players. You resigned the year before these players were signed. Again, please stick to the facts.
by Elmer J Thudpucker
Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:46 am
 
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Re: HFL Central Division

The original oval delegation was for Lobethal to host the first semi on the Sunday and the second semi to be at echunga on the Saturday and last Sundays elimination was to be at mt barker. But the board in their wisdom assumed that Lobethal would loose and then hence be playing in the first semi on the Sunday (Lobethal oval) so they swapped the Lobethal and mt barker grounds games.. Of course that backfired and Lobethal was to play in the Saturday and mt barker in the Sunday so they had to swap the mt barker and echunga oval games. Now of course echunga and mt barker
are playing on Sunday next week and as the A grade can not play on their home ground this has caused a problem. Had they left it as it was there would not have been a problem. They should leave the prelim at balhannah because if echunga win on Sunday they can not play on their home ground and there are not many decent ovals left to allocate for the prelim so please don't tell me they will put the prelim at mt Torrens. Difficult all round.

Of course, the Callington Oval (the best playing surface in Central) is also available. After successfully hosting the 2013 Preliminary Final, the HFL in its wisdom decided not to give Bridgewater/Callington a final in 2014 (despite the fact that clubs such as Hahndorf, Onkas and Uraidla haven't missed out in years).
by Elmer J Thudpucker
Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:46 pm
 
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Re: HFL Central Division

The article in the Budget should immediately preclude the author from any decision making with respect to relegation - full stop!
Echunga gained another 10 points yesterday so is now well off the bottom of the points table.
Common sense must now prevail and possible sanctions put in place to ensure this type of fiasco can not rear it's ugly head again.
Surely this is an opportunity for the truly responsible members of the HFL board to come to the fore and show some real direction for both Central and Country divisions.
They have the chance to make intelligent change moving forward - so let's hope they grasp it and not blow it - again!
As a member of the local footy community I was embarrassed to see the comments made in the Budget as I would hope the HFL is also.
The game yesterday was an absolute ripper and something the HFL should be proud of - not embarrassed by.

Legs Man

Your posts over the past 2-3 months have clearly showed your unbridled passion for your club - well done. Sometimes they have made me smile and sometimes they have me shaking my head. But, I'm worried that your fixation on the HFL Board and promotion/relegation issue has become so consuming that it's now overriding the enjoyment you should be feeling over the achievement of your A grade team.

My advice is to just enjoy the week and support your boys.

Then, once it's over, let the relegation issue play itself out after Clubs receive the findings of the HFL Review Panel. You may have nothing to worry about. To keep sniping at the HFL Board, the Final Siren editor, or to cling to the forlorn hope that finals matches count in the points race just has you coming across as a little bit manic.

The efforts of the Echunga A grade team has been tremendous and have taken everyone by surprise. Good luck in the Grand Final, I'd love to see you beat the cabbage-cutters.
by Elmer J Thudpucker
Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:44 pm
 
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Re: HFL Central Division

They made a mistake sending lofty back, lofty copped it on the chin and showed the whole competition the rules are wrong and need to be changed, hopefully someone has stood up and taken notice!


Are you serious ? Lofty copped it on the chin !!

They squealed like stuck pigs, they actively worked against Echunga's application to come up, they called every HFL club President to make a case as to why they shouldn't go down (and got shirty if they didn't get the response they were seeking), then they misrepresented a number of facts to the HFL clubs in a letter they distributed. They did everything but "cop it on the chin".

I think everyone conveniently forgets that when Mt Lofty were relegated they finished stone motherless last in both A grade and B grade. They were hardly the high flying juggernaut of Central Division.
by Elmer J Thudpucker
Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:11 am
 
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Re: HFL Central Division

Although I totally agree with you LGIL in the way the by laws are written that the finals games are included in the points system, unfortunately for Echunga the interpretation of the by laws deems that the season ends at Rd 18. So unless Echunga are willing to take it to court (where they would probably win as the by laws are poorly written in a legal sense, but how much will that cost them in legal fees) I think they are shit outta luck and are the team in the gun to go down.
If Echunga does take this to court to challenge the by laws I think shit might hit the fan for the HFL as it could bring into question many of the other rules stated in the by laws.

When interpreting a by-law that is open to interpretation, two major things will be considered.

The first test is what everyone’s understanding/interpretation of the by-law was at the start of the season. In the case of by-law 18.2.3, I think you’ll find that all 20 HFL club Presidents will confirm that they understood that the relegation points system was to the end of the minor round. In fact, Echunga themselves can’t argue against this based on their own actions (playing expensive recruits in B grade in an attempt to win extra points) and in words (Kym Pocock in the Sunday Mail article refers to the by-law being for the minor round only).

The second test is how the by-law has been interpreted in the past. That is, is there a precedent as to how the by-law has been mplemented previously? Again, the HFL will confirm that in calculating the relegation points table in previous years, it has been done using minor round games only, even when clubs had teams competing in finals.

Go ahead, spend big on lawyers to challenge it, but it will be a costly exercise that will ultimately amount to nothing.

As I said in a previous post, Echunga’s only option is to convince 11 of the 20 clubs to vote for a by-law change for season 2015 allowing an 11 team central division.
by Elmer J Thudpucker
Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:49 pm
 
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Re: HFL Central Division

Most also thought Echunga wouldn't be good enough to win the premiership.

I am not trying to be little the clubs - but am amazed that they didn't take the logical and common sense option availed them.

It seems that a side can start a season disadvantaged, be further disadvantaged during the season, go on to win the comp and be relegated.

Along with presenting more players into the junior competition than some other Central clubs and having great facilities to showcase the game.

You are right with respect to the HFL though and my thoughts have only been endorsed by their decisions this season:

Allocating more points to TV and going back on their initial direction.
Taking a final off Echunga with no reason or logical explanation and gifting it to Mt Barker - with what many note here as very sub standard facilities. (bear in mind this is a decision that effects Echunga financially with lost revenue)

The uneven playing field was created by the league and the league only as the above were not club decisions.

There is no threat being made to other clubs - just the statement that Echunga will follow the direction and legal position they have been advised of.

No doubt any other club in the same situation would do likewise.

Legsman

I think there’s two separate issues you’re raising.

You won’t get much argument from any as to the issue of equity. Most would agree that TV were clearly advantaged during the year with additional points (Chad O’Sullivan anyone?) and permits to enable them to field junior teams.

I agree that this was unfair, but it’s hard to rectify this after the fact.

However the HFL SGM of last night is an entirely different matter.

The 19 HFL Clubs that attended the SGM were not asked to vote on whether Echunga should be in Central Division, or whether Echunga have a right to defend their title, or whether TV should be sent back.

They were simply asked to vote on an interpretation of an existing by-law. Specifically, what does it say, what is its intention, how has it been traditionally implemented and how do Clubs currently interpret it.

On this issue the vote was unequivocal – 16 of the 19 clubs agreed that the by-law’s intention, previous implementation and interpretation were that it was for the minor round only.

Technically, the only 2 clubs that could be accused of voting on ‘self-interest’ are Echunga and Bridgewater as they were the only clubs with anything to lose. The fact that 15 of the other 17 clubs – who would not be impacted by the result of the vote – were adamant that Echunga’s interpretation of the by-laws was incorrect probably tells you something.

Let’s be honest here, if Echunga finished 2 points above TV at the end of the minor round (and were therefore safe from relegation), then lost the first A grade final, while TV won the first B grade final, do you think Echunga would hold a different view on the by-law – of course they would.

It’s up to Echunga what they do next but gathering support for an 11 team comp may be the only solution.

Legal action would be costly and unlikely to be resolved until the end of the next season anyway. All the Clubs have seen the Echunga legal opinion, the fact that it didn’t change anything might give you an insight as to it’s worth.
by Elmer J Thudpucker
Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:11 pm
 
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Re: HFL Country Division

New poster and jumpring between the country and central threads as new to hills and finding my feet on where to send my lad to play and who to support. As I said in the central forum theres a lot going on in this league and I see with some dismay and interest being from a small town that Sedan Cambrai are struggling and were voted out..what affect does that have to a small town and community with a netball club that follows the footy. Is the towns and league so cruel to chop an entire town out because they cant fill a junior team. I see that there are rules but rules do need to reflect what is happening in small communities and be able to adjust. Do central clubs or country only clubs vote on such important decisions like this?
I feel for Sedan Cambrai as a community as in winter what other choice of sport do they have? Certainly doesnt sound like the people who voted them out where thinking about being inclusive and giving as many players as possible a go at playing football for their local town.
But hey what do I know, I am sure I will learn more about the ins and outs of this league as I get to 'shop' around..!

Just to be clear, they haven't been 'voted out', they have been put into Division 3. They remain a member club of the HFL.
by Elmer J Thudpucker
Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:34 am
 
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Re: HFL Country Division

I’d be a rich man if I had a dollar for every post I’ve seen on this forum over the years saying that the Callington situation was making a laughing stock of the HFL given the poor performances of their senior teams, their lack of junior teams and how they should be moved to C-grade.

Now we have a club in an identical situation. Sedan hasn’t fielded a junior or senior colts team since 2011 with ongoing floggings of their senior teams. They’ve been moved to C-grade and we now have posts suggesting that it’s an abomination.

Go figure
by Elmer J Thudpucker
Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:25 pm
 
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Re: HFL Country Division

Country footy is about giving towns and local communities the right and enjoyment to play footy for their local towns

No-one's arguing with your comment above, and we have a perfect example in the young men of the township of Milang who play in the HFL Div 3 and enjoy their footy, which is what the young men of Sedan can also do if they choose.
by Elmer J Thudpucker
Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:19 am
 
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Re: HFL Country Division

I'm not the one implying the S/C B-Graders don't deserve to play football.

I see the the mock outrage, misinterpretation and drama queen tendencies are persisting......

As mentioned before, if Sedan have 40 senior players (which you're seemingly implying they do, but we all know they don't), they can nominate 2 teams in the Div 3 comp and they can all play every weekend, but not at the expense of the other 8 Div 2 clubs who want a meaningful competition across all grades.

Based on your principle whereby having two senior teams (and no juniors) means you can play Div 2, then the Callington issues didn't need addressing either as they could field 2 teams.
by Elmer J Thudpucker
Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:49 pm
 
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Re: HFL Central Division

To all footy forum users, i would like to inform you that my name is not David Liston as i"am aware he is copping quite a bit of ,s##t over this with some clubs even ringing him over these posts, yes we are from the same great club and yes i played in the same position but i was a right footer and also retired 25yrs ago. So i will leave it at that. Any more signings, whats happening at Uraidla. Mt Barker, Onkas, pretty quite.

ouch...always embarrassing when you get caught out as you have been. It was only a couple of weeks ago you were posting/bragging about playing in last years GF and kicking goals, now you're saying you've been retired for 25 years.
by Elmer J Thudpucker
Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:06 am
 
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Re: HFL Country Division

Meadows have dropped their Under 13's and Maccy have pulled their Under 17's and joined up with Kangarilla making it a 6 team U/17 comp.

I can see why Echunga did what they did to stay out of this comp.

...and you can see why most other Div 2 clubs fought so hard to have Sedan Cambrai not allowed to remain in given they had no junior teams at all, only to have their wishes overturned by the HFL to appease the leftover Hahndorf junior colts.
by Elmer J Thudpucker
Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:32 pm
 
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Re: HFL Division 1 (Central)

Ironbank had 16 locals that have played through the junior system on Saturday.
That would have to be close to the most across both divisions i would think.

Beard
Muirden
Watton
Smith
Thomas
Tagliaferri
Adams
Burke
Cross
Desengo
Heithersay
Hulme
Morgan
Van De Berg
Walter
Evans

Bridgewater Raiders starting 21 on Saturday consisted of 18 Raiders juniors.
by Elmer J Thudpucker
Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:13 am
 
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Re: HFL Division 1 (Central)

I was under the impression all decisions pertaining to the league, the clubs and their players were made by the clubs - and the HFL simply administered this.

I know the point you're trying to make, but its a bit disingenuous of you, of all people, to suggest that the Clubs control things.

As you know, sometimes one club decides to disregard a vote by the other 19 clubs, and takes a matter to the Supreme Court to get a ruling on a technicality - thereby removing the power from the clubs.
by Elmer J Thudpucker
Sun May 31, 2015 7:59 pm
 
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Re: HFL Division 3 (C grade)

There seems to be a ludicrous situation in progress regarding the location of the Div 3 Grand Final this weekend.

Blackwood had been scheduled to host the event all year. Not a level playing field for the other participants given their power, but we were ready for it and accepted it. Needless to say, we had a lot of support from everywhere to overturn a BW home final but hadn't planned on playing anywhere else.

Then Saturday we were notified that the venue had changed and that we (Milang) would be hosting. We were obviously thrilled and began to gather the necessary support personnel. 24 hours later we are told that Blackwood want the GF back and are fighting to the finish to get it.

Cracka, you seem in the know. Wondering if you can enlighten as to why the venue changed to Pantherland in the first place, and then changed again?

What a load of shyte for us to deal with in GF week. Might be a bit a fun for Blackwood but it's a big few days for our Club and we'd like a fair go. And HFL politics aside, any reasonable person would have to wonder why a Grand Final is scheduled at a competing club's home ground, when that ground is already under water and steady rain is predicted for Thursday and Friday?

What is going on here ! You've got Milang Oval in pristine condition, versus Blackwood Oval which is deplorable. Who cares what Blackwood wants, do whats best for the game.

The tail has been waging the dog too many times recently when it comes to decisions like these.
by Elmer J Thudpucker
Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:27 pm
 
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Re: HFL Division 1 (Central)

Panther32 wrote:So do people think the scheduling played any part in the result?


can't see how - Uraidla were 9 points up at the 20 minute mark of the last quarter.
by Elmer J Thudpucker
Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:26 pm
 
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Re: HFL Division 1 (Central)

Dutchy wrote:Echunga have the cheque book out again


Hopefully it's their own cheque book this time......
by Elmer J Thudpucker
Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:32 am
 
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Re: HFL Division 2 (Country)

Ironbank to Div 2 No teams going up so a couple of byes now for both divisions

I think this is a great development for Div 2.
- It will add another quality club that has all 5 teams playing on the one day.
- It adds another team that will be strong (meaning we won't have a team that wins 6 out of 18 games making the finals like Meadows this year),
- it will mean a 16 game season where all teams play each other twice (no unfair advantage by playing the bottom teams three times),

Great outcome all round.
by Elmer J Thudpucker
Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:23 pm
 
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