C31 Total SANFL - finished

[CK]

Again, it comes back to the nature of community media. C31, along with a number of other community media bodies (eg. 5RPH) are bound by a Charter and Code that states, very broadly, if someone has an idea for a show that is of benefit to a section of the community and has the available funds to do so, then the station is bound to put this on the air. Ratings, in that respect, are not the overriding factor; it is about providing a service to the community. There may not be a lot of people, for example, who would watch some of the shows on C31, or listen to shows on some community radio stations, but because there is a section of the community that DOES watch them, they are there for their benefit.

It is a bit different to a 7, 9, 10 scenario where they are publicly owned, answerable to shareholders and have a financial responsibility to return a profit; this is not the sole aim of community media. It is one reason why the decision was disappointing in many ways; while I completely understand the "value for dollar" scenario (and I can absolutely assure you, without getting into too many specifics of the proposal, it represented value for money; each club would receive a three figure number of ads, for a two figure cost per ad, for example, to advertise club facilities, memberships etc), the show was meeting the Charter and Code entirely.

[Pseudo]

I might weigh in and say that the SANFL & clubs have put the cart before the horse. Instead of asking "how many viewers does Total SANFL get and does this justify our investment", they should be asking "By investing in Total SANFL how many viewers will it get?" A little investment would see the show and its audience grow, which in turn would justify bigger investment in the future.

[Wedgie]

I see where you're coming from mate but IMHO you could only estimate the " benefit to a section of the community" by looking at ratings of some sort.
Unless ratings are taken into account some of their shows might be seen by noone which IMHO is little benefit to the community.
I cant speak for RPH but Im well aware other community radio stations are well aware of how many they're getting out to hence making it easier to sell sponsorship to shows, etc.
The ABC and SBS also not supposed to be ratings based but of course they use ratings to work out what sort of benefit they are providing to the community.
If C31 just puts on shows depending on who gives them funding and who can write a nice spiel about who they're benefitting then perhaps its time they gave it up?
Surely funds is the only issue looking at some of the programming.
Ironically funds will only come if they provide potential fundees with details about their value for money and I think that's fair enough, I certainly wouldn't advertise a business anywhere unless I knew what sort of bang for buck I was getting.

[Wedgie]

I might weigh in and say that the SANFL & clubs have put the cart before the horse. Instead of asking "how many viewers does Total SANFL get and does this justify our investment", they should be asking "By investing in Total SANFL how many viewers will it get?" A little investment would see the show and its audience grow, which in turn would justify bigger investment in the future.

Playing the devils advocate the SANFL and its clubs probably ask the question as to how they'll get over 30k back per season?
Would the C31 Total SANFL show generate such interest in the community that an extra 3750 people will pay $8 to go and see their product?
Hard decision to make without market research invovled.

[Dutchy]

I might weigh in and say that the SANFL & clubs have put the cart before the horse. Instead of asking "how many viewers does Total SANFL get and does this justify our investment", they should be asking "By investing in Total SANFL how many viewers will it get?" A little investment would see the show and its audience grow, which in turn would justify bigger investment in the future.

Playing the devils advocate the SANFL and its clubs probably ask the question as to how they'll get over 30k back per season?
Would the C31 Total SANFL show generate such interest in the community that an extra 3750 people will pay $8 to go and see their product?
Hard decision to make without market research invovled.

on the money there Wedgie....it becomes a business decision and needs to be justified by breaking it down into what return on investment the clubs will get, unless they can see projections then the CEO's wont commit their clubs cash

[Wedgie]

on the money there Wedgie....it becomes a business decision and needs to be justified by breaking it down into what return on investment the clubs will get, unless they can see projections then the CEO's wont commit their clubs cash

Exactly mate, its a business these days and its a prudent business decision.
Don't get me wrong I pushed it with my club, but if each club had 3 or 4 supporters pushing the show does that really make a difference and should it when it comes to large amounts of money?
I don't know of too many businesses that would sponsor TV shows without knowing what sort of reach they were getting for their $$.

Back to you Chris, if you've put before the SANFL and the clubs that over 30k is needed this year so we can get a clearer picture of the SANFL's decision, exactly how much did the SANFL contribute last year? And if not over 30k, where exactly did that money come from, I know you've reached into your pocket a bit and you had some sponsors but did C31 underwrite any of it and exactly how much was made in sponsorships last year? Have the costs gone up this year? Were last year's sponsors all happy to come back on board for the equivelent sponsorship?

[Ecky]

I'll post some comments I made on sl.org a little while ago, as I presume that clubs/SANFL would have had similar reservations to what I thought...

OK, here are my honest comments on Total SANFL.

Personally, I loved the show, being someone whose thirst for SANFL news and comments is very high - I watched almost every edition despite a very fuzzy reception at my place. The panelists are all knowledgable and do an excellent job by community TV standards.

However, since reception of C31 is very limited around Adelaide and it is just a community TV station, I doubt that there are many other people who watch it. The main viewers would be those who post on these forums (as that is the only place it is advertised) but there aren't that many of us in the bigger scheme of things - my guess is that only a few hundred people (if that) would be watching any given episode. Most of the viewers are the diehard SANFL fans who will support the competition to their grave no matter what advertising the show and the SANFL gets. People tend not to "stumble" across C31 when they are channel surfing - they just stick to the channels they know. This was highlighted by the struggle the show had to sell tickets to its Grand Final "Extravaganza", which I thought was very poorly attended, despite being a great production.

So as much as I would love the SANFL clubs to chip in with some funding, I honestly don't see what they have to gain by doing so.

The only reason I could see for doing so, is if the show led to a similar show on one of the mainstream networks. I reckon a great time for this would be on 5:30 Sundays if people get sick of "Postcards" and all its spinoff shows - this is traditionally a time for local content on Adelaide TV. If this were to happen, there would be enormous benefits for the SANFL and all clubs - many potential new fans would be exposed to our great competition.

But could this really ever happen

[TroyGFC]

.

[TroyGFC]

As the Eckmister said, only already passionate people with reception would ever watch it. I do see that the point of why clubs didnt throw money in support of it. The sad truth is within 50 years or before our comp will be gone unless mainstream media start to show more interest in being part of it now.

[CK]

Back to you Chris, if you've put before the SANFL and the clubs that over 30k is needed this year so we can get a clearer picture of the SANFL's decision, exactly how much did the SANFL contribute last year? And if not over 30k, where exactly did that money come from, I know you've reached into your pocket a bit and you had some sponsors but did C31 underwrite any of it and exactly how much was made in sponsorships last year? Have the costs gone up this year? Were last year's sponsors all happy to come back on board for the equivelent sponsorship?

How much did the SANFL or clubs contribute last year?

Zero. None. Nought.

I'm not going to go into the specifics about exactly how much the channel put in, but all I will say is that, if the channel hadn't underwritten it, the show would NOT have happened last year. At all. No, costs have not gone up - but to make the set look how I would like it to look, to jazz things up a lot more, then this is a fair amount to ask. While the topic of reception etc has been raised; this didn't stop the SANFL from putting up a five figure sum in 2003 for the show with McDermott, Ebert, Wildy; and this was without ratings figures for this show. I have already discussed this topic specifically with the SANFL and accept their reasoning for this at the time. No, it was not related to "profiles" etc.

Beyond this, I'm not really going to comment much more on the sites about the details of the submission etc. In fairness, I've probably been a bit more transparent than is absolutely necessary in public on it. Suffice to say, the clubs and SANFL were all completely informed, through a detailed submission, as to exact costs/where these funds were going to be allocated/what they would receive for it/how this would benefit them. I couldn't have made it any clearer to them at all. Wedgie, if you have any more questions about it, please feel free to PM me, phone or email about it.

[Wedgie]

Back to you Chris, if you've put before the SANFL and the clubs that over 30k is needed this year so we can get a clearer picture of the SANFL's decision, exactly how much did the SANFL contribute last year? And if not over 30k, where exactly did that money come from, I know you've reached into your pocket a bit and you had some sponsors but did C31 underwrite any of it and exactly how much was made in sponsorships last year? Have the costs gone up this year? Were last year's sponsors all happy to come back on board for the equivelent sponsorship?

How much did the SANFL or clubs contribute last year?

Zero. None. Nought.

That was my point, they got a service for free last year (wrongly or rightly)so they'd want good reason to put 35k into it this year if you look at it from a business perspective.

[redandblack]

The problem is that you can easily defend the SANFL decision from a 'business' point of view.

However, it shows no imagination, flair, initiative or foresight, but smacks of decisions being made by people too frightened to make a decision they might be criticised for on a business basis.

It's not as if the SANFL comp gets saturation TV coverage.

I think this is an issue that might be resurrected next year, if enough noise is made.

[Wedgie]

The problem is that you can easily defend the SANFL decision from a 'business' point of view.

However, it shows no imagination, flair, initiative or foresight, but smacks of decisions being made by people too frightened to make a decision they might be criticised for on a business basis.

It's not as if the SANFL comp gets saturation TV coverage.

I think this is an issue that might be resurrected next year, if enough noise is made.

Definately r&b, I agree fully.

Perhaps through this site we can create some noise and I'm all for it, personally I'll be chatting to board members and North's CEO about it this year and if this year is anything like last I might have a chance to chat to a few people in power at other sites.

[Adelaide Hawk]

How much did the SANFL or clubs contribute last year?

Zero. None. Nought.

I think that says it all. We've all said on this forum for some time the SANFL (and the clubs) are not promoting the local league anywhere near enough. I'm mystified how the SANFL expects improved patronage if they won't promote their own product.

[Hondo]

On thinking about it some more I have sort of come around like Wedgie and can start to understand the SANFL and Club's decision. I see C31 as a reward for the SANFL die-hards who are already 'sold' on the competition rather than something that promoted the SANFL generally to new fans. I don't think the show actually got anyone new to follow SANFL - it just gave us existing fans something to watch. That doesn't take anything away from what was a great show - just that if you put the hand out for sponsorship I can understand the hesitation when no-one can really verify how many people watched it.

The bigger picture issue for the SANFL, in my opinion, is not whether there is a weekly chat show, but how the hell they go about selling the SANFL to the net generation after all of us leave the scene. If there is $35K to be spent on promotion by the SANFL I would probably rather see it spent on the primary school kids somehow - school bags with logos on them, footy clinics, school visits, etc. If the school kids of today don't embrace the SANFL like we did in the 70s and 80s then it will become simply a second-tier suburban comp with games attended by family and friends only. Soccer and basketball are the sports attracting this next generation - I bet a lot of them could'nt even name the 9 SANFL clubs.

[Jimmy]

The problem is that you can easily defend the SANFL decision from a 'business' point of view.

However, it shows no imagination, flair, initiative or foresight, but smacks of decisions being made by people too frightened to make a decision they might be criticised for on a business basis.

It's not as if the SANFL comp gets saturation TV coverage.

I think this is an issue that might be resurrected next year, if enough noise is made.

well said!!!

[zipzap]

I'm really hoping someone is thinking seriously about the youtube idea. Doesn't have to be youtube necessarily, there are other ways to stream video. But as Redlegs TV shows, it can generate a buzz and get people talking - I even heard Tweedles Dee and Dumb talking about it the other day on 5AArse!

It could also be offered as a weekly podcast. A couple of years ago that might have been pie-in-the-sky stuff. Now I know people who are barely computer literate who are talking about podcasts. A podcast is so easy to make too. You would have just as much chance ( if not more) attracting sponsorship to this as you would with community TV I would think.

You could make a simple (or more complex) homepage for it to be embedded in, and we'd have a third fantastic fan-based exclusively SANFL web resource that anyone could access at any time. Or one of the existing sites could host it. Either way, it would be cheap, easy and effective - who knows where that could lead?