AFL expansion effects on SANFL

[Dirko]

The other thing, is the A-League look set to enter the Gold Coast next year, and give themselves a good few years to get the numbers etc etc.

Just another means of sport for the locals to jump into....

[Pseudo]

2. If the SANFL cements its status as the #1 state league in the country (and there's no reason why it shouldn't), then more places for AFL players on offer = more blokes who have missed out on being drafted first time around, being motivated to sign with a SANFL club and get noticed, rather than languishing in obscurity in Victoria (because all of the AFL players dropped from their club makes it impossible to get a game for a VFL firsts side), ACT, NT or NSW (because these comps just aren't good enough and/or don't have the profile of the SANFL). As long as the clubs stay financially strong, then in reality the minor player losses from the 2 new AFL clubs will be covered by additional recruiting.

But the calibre of these recruits to the SANFL would be different. A greater proportion of the players would be here only to work their way into the AFL, rather than to achieve at SANFL level. I don't think this would be healthy for the SANFL clubs.

[am Bays]

no way a state of 3 million could support 10 clubs under that rationale tas . hang on a moment how many clubs from victoria a footballing state ???.

Huge population in India aswell gentlemen. Only thing is Indians dont give two craps about aussie rules. just like queenslanders and new south welshmen .

gold coast have had two NRL and NBL teams go bust from memory. and its a very passionate rugby state. one other small point. gold coast had an afl team about 20 years ago (bears) and it had to be moved to brisbane.

other scary fact is afl isnt up in gold coast for their crowds. its in the gold coast for greater tv exposure. With what supporters going to games ???

James Brayshaw / North MElbourne you dodged a bullet IMHO.

Yes I know all that %age of the population that actually follows the game....its not also about now is also about potential for growth, far more opportunity for our game to grow amongst 11 Million NSWmen and QLDers than 1.8 Million Croweaters

Yeah a gold coast based VFL/AFL team called the Brisbane Bears was always going to indeer itself to the Gold Coast cognescenti....

Only one Gold coast team has gone bust in the ARL (it did have two nickname changes though (Giants and seagulls). the South Qld crushers were actually based at Lang Park in Brisbane.....

Lets just gift rugby, league and soccer the population growth areas of Australai Western Sydney and the Gold Coast.... a great way for our national code to survive in 50 years time when you and I are eating vitamised food and having kerosene baths.....

And as I said before I don't want another AFL club here I want to protect what matters to me the SANFL.

rest assured though if they are going to expand the competion to 18 give them 10 years and it'll be 20 with extra teams from SA and WA.

however if you did a secret poll amongst teh AFL execs they would say they'd prefer the model of the Gold Coast Roos and the Western (Sydney) Bulldogs (sorry Rushby) to reduce the numbe of clubs in Victoria which as you correctly point out us insustainable like a 3rd team is in SA and WA right now....

[Jar Man Out]

no way a state of 3 million could support 10 clubs under that rationale tas . hang on a moment how many clubs from victoria a footballing state ???.

Huge population in India aswell gentlemen. Only thing is Indians dont give two craps about aussie rules. just like queenslanders and new south welshmen .

gold coast have had two NRL and NBL teams go bust from memory. and its a very passionate rugby state. one other small point. gold coast had an afl team about 20 years ago (bears) and it had to be moved to brisbane.

other scary fact is afl isnt up in gold coast for their crowds. its in the gold coast for greater tv exposure. With what supporters going to games ???

James Brayshaw / North MElbourne you dodged a bullet IMHO.

Yes I know all that %age of the population that actually follows the game....its not also about now is also about potential for growth, far more opportunity for our game to grow amongst 11 Million NSWmen and QLDers than 1.8 Million Croweaters

Yeah a gold coast based VFL/AFL team called the Brisbane Bears was always going to indeer itself to the Gold Coast cognescenti....

Only one Gold coast team has gone bust in the ARL (it did have two nickname changes though (Giants and seagulls). the South Qld crushers were actually based at Lang Park in Brisbane.....

Lets just gift rugby, league and soccer the population growth areas of Australai Western Sydney and the Gold Coast.... a great way for our national code to survive in 50 years time when you and I are eating vitamised food and having kerosene baths.....

And as I said before I don't want another AFL club here I want to protect what matters to me the SANFL.

rest assured though if they are going to expand the competion to 18 give them 10 years and it'll be 20 with extra teams from SA and WA.

however if you did a secret poll amongst teh AFL execs they would say they'd prefer the model of the Gold Coast Roos and the Western (Sydney) Bulldogs (sorry Rushby) to reduce the numbe of clubs in Victoria which as you correctly point out us insustainable like a 3rd team is in SA and WA right now....

Thought that is how youd answer.

So lets say 2 teams do leave victoria under Tas's AFL utopia.

Still leaves a state of 3 million with 8 AFl teams under this set up. Which everyone seems to think is fine.

Whilst under no circumstances could Sa with just under 2 mill support 3 teams. Interesting theory Tas I strongly disagree.


Only reason Bears didnt work cos they were named Brisbane. Thats a good one. If named Gold Coast Bears skasey would have cleaned up. hahahaha!!!!

Leave Gold Coast to rugby. Its had one club go bankrupt. Take that AFL.

[am Bays]

Thought that is how youd answer.

So lets say 2 teams do leave victoria under Tas's AFL utopia.

Still leaves a state of 3 million with 8 AFl teams under this set up. Which everyone seems to think is fine.

Whilst under no circumstances could Sa with just under 2 mill support 3 teams. Interesting theory Tas I strongly disagree.


Only reason Bears didnt work cos they were named Brisbane. Thats a good one. If named Gold Coast Bears skasey would have cleaned up. hahahaha!!!!

Leave Gold Coast to rugby. Its had one club go bankrupt. Take that AFL.

Bwa ha ha ha

Can you get your facts right if you are going to argue.... Melbourne has a population of $3 Mill I'll think you find there is at least another 2 Mill around the rest of Vic.

And nice twisting of an arguement to say if they we're called the Gold Coast bears skasey would've cleaned up. Mate your and I ain't that dumb any expansion team takes time, hell Freo almost folded in 2000 six years after it was created due to financial ills....and that is is a football haeratlans=d state.

West Coast had to get bailed out by the WAFL in 1990 after the private interests went brown.

MAte expansion teams always struggle asnd that is to be expected, best to get in there whilst before other codes do.

[Jar Man Out]

Bwa ha ha ha

Can you get your facts right if you are going to argue.... Melbourne has a population of $3 Mill I'll think you find there is at least another 2 Mill around the rest of Vic.

And nice twisting of an arguement to say if they we're called the Gold Coast bears skasey would've cleaned up. Mate your and I ain't that dumb any expansion team takes time, hell Freo almost folded in 2000 six years after it was created due to financial ills....and that is is a football haeratlans=d state.

West Coast had to get bailed out by the WAFL in 1990 after the private interests went brown.

MAte expansion teams always struggle asnd that is to be expected, best to get in there whilst before other codes do.

hahahaha!!!

oh so 8 teams in a 5 mill population perfectly acceptable.

but 3 teams in a town with 2 million not a chance in hell.

I love it when crows fans think they are SANFL fans. Let me guess Chris Mcdermott was an idol of yours Tas.

MAte you and I both know brisbane for all of its premiership success are the weakest football state in the afl. how many members does it have and how many of those are queenslanders. I believe fitzroy fans make up 8000 of the lions total membership.

and you think expanding on this market is a good idea. you know what they say about getting emotional attachments to your investments. they dont end up going well.

[SimonH]

But the calibre of these recruits to the SANFL would be different. A greater proportion of the players would be here only to work their way into the AFL, rather than to achieve at SANFL level. I don't think this would be healthy for the SANFL clubs.

As opposed to the blokes who miss out on the draft now and immediately sign a contract with a SANFL club? To just pick 2 random examples, I have to doubt whether Trent Goodrem dreamed of playing for Centrals as a kid, or Joel Coombes always hoped he'd wind up at Norwood one day.

A few of any given year's bunch of recruits will get re-drafted by an interstate AFL club, many won't and will drift away from the SANFL, and a reasonable number will become solid long-term SANFL players. None of those things will change with 16 interstate AFL clubs as opposed to 14.

[SimonH]

hahahaha!!!

oh so 8 teams in a 5 mill population perfectly acceptable.

but 3 teams in a town with 2 million not a chance in hell.

I love it when crows fans think they are SANFL fans. Let me guess Chris Mcdermott was an idol of yours Tas.

MAte you and I both know brisbane for all of its premiership success are the weakest football state in the afl. how many members does it have and how many of those are queenslanders. I believe fitzroy fans make up 8000 of the lions total membership.

and you think expanding on this market is a good idea. you know what they say about getting emotional attachments to your investments. they dont end up going well.

You can at least spend 30 seconds looking up freely available, accurate population figures before shooting your mouth off. Like, for example, here (warning: longish PDF). The Victorian population is about 5.2 million, of which Melbourne comprises about 3.7 million. The population of South Australia is about 1.5 million, of which Adelaide makes up about 1.1 million.

Based on these figures, if SA deserves 3 AFL clubs, then Victoria deserves... just a lick over 10! If you forget country areas and compare Adelaide vs Melbourne, it's the same story: if Adelaide can justify 3, then Melbourne can justify 10 (noting that Melbourne now has only 9). In circumstances where everyone seems to agree that 9 teams will struggle to survive long-term in Melbourne (where they have a little over 400k population each), then how would 3 Adelaide teams with access to about 370k each, go?

Based on long-term population projections, WA would warrant a fourth AFL team before SA gets a 3rd. Anyway, as everyone seems to agree that a 3rd SA AFL club would be disastrous for the SANFL, then what's all of this talk about it being inevitable "if they expand the competition" now? It now seems to be an article of faith that more content = greater value in television rights (which is the financial cornerstone of the AFL at the moment). So if there was no additional content coming from Qld and NSW, then the AFL would be more likely to turn to WA and SA to get it. This decision takes the heat off SA football admin for the next decade or so.

PS Brisbane is not a 'state'.

[Jar Man Out]

hahahaha!!!

oh so 8 teams in a 5 mill population perfectly acceptable.

but 3 teams in a town with 2 million not a chance in hell.

I love it when crows fans think they are SANFL fans. Let me guess Chris Mcdermott was an idol of yours Tas.

MAte you and I both know brisbane for all of its premiership success are the weakest football state in the afl. how many members does it have and how many of those are queenslanders. I believe fitzroy fans make up 8000 of the lions total membership.

and you think expanding on this market is a good idea. you know what they say about getting emotional attachments to your investments. they dont end up going well.

You can at least spend 30 seconds looking up freely available, accurate population figures before shooting your mouth off. Like, for example, here (warning: longish PDF). The Victorian population is about 5.2 million, of which Melbourne comprises about 3.7 million. The population of South Australia is about 1.5 million, of which Adelaide makes up about 1.1 million.

Based on these figures, if SA deserves 3 AFL clubs, then Victoria deserves... just a lick over 10! If you forget country areas and compare Adelaide vs Melbourne, it's the same story: if Adelaide can justify 3, then Melbourne can justify 10 (noting that Melbourne now has only 9). In circumstances where everyone seems to agree that 9 teams will struggle to survive long-term in Melbourne (where they have a little over 400k population each), then how would 3 Adelaide teams with access to about 370k each, go?

Based on long-term population projections, WA would warrant a fourth AFL team before SA gets a 3rd. Anyway, as everyone seems to agree that a 3rd SA AFL club would be disastrous for the SANFL, then what's all of this talk about it being inevitable "if they expand the competition" now? It now seems to be an article of faith that more content = greater value in television rights (which is the financial cornerstone of the AFL at the moment). So if there was no additional content coming from Qld and NSW, then the AFL would be more likely to turn to WA and SA to get it. This decision takes the heat off SA football admin for the next decade or so.

So just to clarify Simon H. Melbourne 8 teams in 3.7 population is a great set up.

WHilst 3 teams in Adelaide a population on 1.2 mill. Would be a disaster.

Good to see you have Sa footballs best interest in you heart you blokes.

Are you a Crows fan SimonH ??? Because I know why crows fans would be scared of a third team in this state. DOnt understand why SANFL fans would be though.

[Hondo]

Good to see you have Sa footballs best interest in you heart you blokes.

Are you a Crows fan SimonH ??? Because I know why crows fans would be scared of a third team in this state. DOnt understand why SANFL fans would be though.

You're barely making sense with all this anti-Crows, pro-SA, anti-Victorian, anti-AFL hysteria.

Everyone who disagrees with you has to be a Crows fan

And even when your 'facts' are proven wrong you just change your argument and charge ahead anyway

As a Crows fan I couln't give a toss about a 3rd AFL team in SA. As for SANFL fans (yes I'm both believe it or not ) - do a straw poll on here on how they would feel about having 2 AFL games played in Adelaide every second weekend.

[Jar Man Out]

Good to see you have Sa footballs best interest in you heart you blokes.

Are you a Crows fan SimonH ??? Because I know why crows fans would be scared of a third team in this state. DOnt understand why SANFL fans would be though.

You're barely making sense with all this anti-Crows, pro-SA, anti-Victorian, anti-AFL hysteria.

Everyone who disagrees with you has to be a Crows fan

And even when your 'facts' are proven wrong you just change your argument and charge ahead anyway

As a Crows fan I couln't give a toss about a 3rd AFL team in SA. As for SANFL fans (yes I'm both believe it or not ) - do a straw poll on here on how they would feel about having 2 AFL games played in Adelaide every second weekend.

Why would an SANFL fan care about how many AFL games are played here ?????

crows fans got to love them.

[johntheclaret]

Good to see you have Sa footballs best interest in you heart you blokes.

Are you a Crows fan SimonH ??? Because I know why crows fans would be scared of a third team in this state. DOnt understand why SANFL fans would be though.

You're barely making sense with all this anti-Crows, pro-SA, anti-Victorian, anti-AFL hysteria.

Everyone who disagrees with you has to be a Crows fan

And even when your 'facts' are proven wrong you just change your argument and charge ahead anyway

As a Crows fan I couln't give a toss about a 3rd AFL team in SA. As for SANFL fans (yes I'm both believe it or not ) - do a straw poll on here on how they would feel about having 2 AFL games played in Adelaide every second weekend.

Why would an SANFL fan care about how many AFL games are played here ?????

crows fans got to love them.

Jar Man Out, has someone nailed one of your feet to the floor. you seem to be going round in circles

[Pseudo]

As for SANFL fans (yes I'm both believe it or not ) - do a straw poll on here on how they would feel about having 2 AFL games played in Adelaide every second weekend.

Why would an SANFL fan care about how many AFL games are played here ?????

Because the timing of AFL games affects the SANFL schedule. This is a very good point and hondo is to be commended for bringing it up.

As I see it two things could happen: Either the SANFL tries valiantly to schedule its matches around the AFL schedule, probably failing miserably and pi$$ing off scores of diehard fans. Alternatively the SANFL realises it is fighting a losing battle, says "sod it" and simply lets the SANFL teams choose when they want to play.

I suspect the first scenario would result, but the second scenario would be a Good Thing.

[Jar Man Out]

unfortunately I only look at things from the SANFLs perspective JTC.

Just wanted to point out how contradictory the population argument is.

Think I have.

[Jar Man Out]

As for SANFL fans (yes I'm both believe it or not ) - do a straw poll on here on how they would feel about having 2 AFL games played in Adelaide every second weekend.

Why would an SANFL fan care about how many AFL games are played here ?????

Because the timing of AFL games affects the SANFL schedule. This is a very good point and hondo is to be commended for bringing it up.

As I see it two things could happen: Either the SANFL tries valiantly to schedule its matches around the AFL schedule, probably failing miserably and pi$$ing off scores of diehard fans. Alternatively the SANFL realises it is fighting a losing battle, says "sod it" and simply lets the SANFL teams choose when they want to play.

I suspect the first scenario would result, but the second scenario would be a Good Thing.

So the SANFL has to base its schedule around the AFLs.That will be different. Whilst it will be more difficult still dont see how it will effect pure SANFL fans.

Might force some AFl/SANFL fans to make a decision they dont want to or feel bad about though.

As a Centrals fan as long as my team is playing on the weekend, why would I care about the rest. ???

Is it different for bays fans ???

[Hondo]

Jar Man Out

I thought you're theory on the 3rd AFL team in Adelaide (last time you raised it on the AFL Board - folks we have been here before ) was that it was going to be supported by all the dis-affected SANFL fans who hate the Crows and Port.

Aren't they the same current SANFL fans who would then have an AFL team they want to watch on TV or go see live every second weekend .... instead of going to the local game? Remember not everyone has the time and money to see 2 games in a weekend ..

And you reckon that won't impact the SANFL

Or has your 'theory' changed since last time? Who do you now think is going to follow this 3rd AFL team

Is it news to you that some people are SANFL fans AND follow an AFL team

[am Bays]

Seems this is topical not just on SAFooty, even Radio National is discussing it.

FYI:

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/sportsfactor/stories/2008/2166476.htm

My summation of the transcript (which no doubt will be scruitinised severely by one poster) is one of opportunity....

[OCT]

So the SANFL has to base its schedule around the AFLs.That will be different. Whilst it will be more difficult still dont see how it will effect pure SANFL fans.

Might force some AFl/SANFL fans to make a decision they dont want to or feel bad about though.

As a Centrals fan as long as my team is playing on the weekend, why would I care about the rest. ???


Fair call , you only barrack for 1 side !! Good on you , same here I follow Sturt and then if forced to name an AFL side its the Crows. Seems to me a lot of people on this site dont think the same way.

As it is now the SANFL has to be mindful of their scheduling of the games due to the AFL. But FFS the SANFL is pretty ordinary with this. They have done some good stuff but dont seem to keep on a winner when they have got it. Classic example, Sturt V Norwood should be the opener at the Parade every year. I think they did it 2 years in a row 5-4- year ago and 10000 plus both times and Norwood were still down , what would happen if both sides were up ? Same goes for other sides, Port plyed West ,Adelaide cup day a few years ago and got a very good crowd( with all due respect to West but they havent a great following) . Bloody hell start making things consistent to make a tradition. Believe it or not there are more traditional games than Port v Norwood in fact those 2 hardly draw a crowd if you have a look. IMHO that is the most overrated traditon anyway. You have to be a step ahead, why not play Good Friday ? Friday night finals , Sat night finals ( one game only) .

Another thing to remember , to get back on the topic, the sides in Vic wont survive with another 2 teams to me it means an opportunity to get rid of 2 of them cos they're to gutless to force it.

[Sojourner]

Agree with you there Oct!

I enjoy watching AFL games on TV, yet the South Adelaide Guernsey resplendent in its Navy Blue and White is the only one for me!

[Jar Man Out]

Jar Man Out

I thought you're theory on the 3rd AFL team in Adelaide (last time you raised it on the AFL Board - folks we have been here before ) was that it was going to be supported by all the dis-affected SANFL fans who hate the Crows and Port.

Aren't they the same current SANFL fans who would then have an AFL team they want to watch on TV or go see live every second weekend .... instead of going to the local game? Remember not everyone has the time and money to see 2 games in a weekend ..

And you reckon that won't impact the SANFL

Or has your 'theory' changed since last time? Who do you now think is going to follow this 3rd AFL team

Is it news to you that some people are SANFL fans AND follow an AFL team

Third team could be for those who simply do not support Port or The Adelaide Football Club Hendo. Thought that would be pretty obvious.

Third Team could also be made up of SANFL clubs supporters or a combination of two SANFL clubs supporters. Who knows how it will be set up??? All I know is people saying "not possible" need to looking into it further.

You are aware AFL team all over Australia have SOuth Australian Members Hendo. We just dont go for two teams.

Not news to me that people support both SANFL/AFL. I just dont think its truly possible to be done. For example Im a central supporter and am a huge fan of Brad Symes. Do you think I want Symesy to star for the crows this year or play for Centrals.

See the conflict.

Like crows fans telling us what is good for the SANFL. Sure you dont have an angle on what you perceive is the best. Ill gladly admit to having one angle on my point of views. The SANFLS.

I know you cant say the same. Otherwise you wouldnt be arguing against the SANFL expanding into the elite aussie rules competition in the land, On an SANFL website. Would you ???