This time the AFL has gone too far....

[Macca19]

I think some people are going overboard. I dont think it would spell the end of the SANFL at all.

As a big supporter of both SANFL and AFL, in the long term I dont think it will effect the SANFL too much.

From my AFL clubs point of view its a great idea. Having a national reserves team is much easier than the current setup and is a much better idea than the continual Port/Crows team in the SANFL which wont ever work. It would add more interest to AFL game day and would be more like old school footy.

How would I go about it?
- Reserves competition to start in 2009
- Expand current Senior lists to total 44 by the start of 2009
- Expand the rookie list to total 10 by the start of 2009
- Each SA based club is allowed to choose one SANFL player under 21 from each club to act as a supplementary player for the reserves side in case of injury.
- Each of the interstate players is still chosen in the mini draft for cases where the 2 AFL teams are full

From an SANFL point of view, I just cant see how it will kill off the competition. There would be a big hit of young talent in the first couple of seasons but after that I cant see it dying off. The SANFL would still attract ex-AFL players, will still attract ex-SANFL players that didnt make it and will still attract players from other state leagues looking for a better opportunity. After the two setup seasons, the amount of players drafted would be similar to what it is now anyway.

Every year there is 6-12 youngsters that dont get drafted that everyone says was unlucky. Guys like Hurley, Hier, Jenner etc. They would almost definately get an AFL opportunity with increased lists. And remember clubs are compensated financially for draftees. Not a lot but the further they go the more money they get. Its not going to effect in any way SANFL clubs development programs for 10-17 year olds.

Correct me if im wrong, but I always thought the AFL paid for plane tickets for all matches?

In any case, I think the SANFL would be fine.

[Macca19]

I very much doubt this will happen, but if it does, the SANFL should do everything in its power to prevent it from happening. That is if they care about league footy in South Australia and the impact it would have on the many people involved in a competition that has been around for over 100 years.

Expand on why you think it would spell the death of the SANFL?

[Hondo]

... never underestimate the resiliance of the SANFL, and the best way to deal with change is to start preparing for it as early as possible rather than fighting it. I don't know how realistic this latest proposal is but my instinct tells me that the days of Crows and Power players playing in the SANFL are numbered, as well as the other 14 AFL clubs in their own state-based leagues.

The AFL is now fighting a resurgent soccer code along with all the other things that take our attention these days and so will always work to ensure its league is as successful as it can be. Continued TV rights money from the AFL should shore up the future of the state-based leagues. Unfortunately (some would say) the fortunes of the SANFL are closely tied with those of the AFL in the longer term.

[Gravel]

Excellent posts Hondo71 and Macca19.

[Aerie]

I very much doubt this will happen, but if it does, the SANFL should do everything in its power to prevent it from happening. That is if they care about league footy in South Australia and the impact it would have on the many people involved in a competition that has been around for over 100 years.

Expand on why you think it would spell the death of the SANFL?

Some reasons why I think it would be bad for the SANFL:

1) massive drop in quality of players. The AFL will need at least a further 200 players for AFL lists. Many of these (I'd say at least 50 or 60) will come from the SANFL. We wouldn't have players such as Jarrad, Treeby, McConnell, Lindsay, Clayton, Kenna etc. etc. in our comp. We also would lose all our best (and next best) juniors. The standard of the SANFL would not be worth watching any more.
2) less room in the media. As if we don't get too little already, ALL focus will be on the AFL and reserves competition and less room for SANFL.

These two points will in turn effect crowd and membership numbers at SANFL clubs.

I think all of this is directed at propping up Victorian football once again. All the interstate teams have been doing well with the current set up. When the AFL realise supporting 10 teams in Victoria is too much, instead of making hard decisions and getting rid of at least 4 of the teams, they drain resources from the strong non-Victorian football states to prop them up.

If the AFL make it a 10 or 12 team competition then fine, have the reserves, BUT, there is not enough depth in Australian football to successfully run 16 AFL teams, a national reserves competition as well as successful State leagues.

The talent will be spread too thin across all levels and will consequently destroy Australian football for all of those except those who pay hundreds of dollars to sit in the same chair all season and watch their team play football every second week.

I think an AFL reserves competition would destroy the SANFL. I love football, but I'm not sure I would follow any form of the game if the SANFL were to be diminished to the extent it is a third rate league.

The SANFL has real meaning to a lot of us. An AFL reserves competition is simply greedy.

I hate what football is coming to. $.

[Adelaide Hawk]

The AFL have said a national reserves competition is on the very bottom of their list of priorities and won't be happening any time soon, if ever. No need for concern.

[Squawk]

By expanding the VFL to become an "AFL" the AFL have made their own bed with 16 bodies in it and now they have to lie in it.
They are very keen on nationalisation and no doubt one day they would like to control all football revenue and all leagues nationwide.

However, there may be some merit in the proposal from another point of view:

Reduce the AFL comp to 12 teams with lists of 35 players each. 7 fewer on the list = 63 more players plus rookies/veterans are available.
1 home and 1 away game versus the other 11 clubs
This would mean 8 teams would have to be "created" and open the door to have Tasmania, the ACT, the NT put a team in, NSW and QLD to put one more team in and WA and SA to put 2 more teams in.
The reserves comp could effectively be division 1 with a promotion/relegation system operating. 3 clubs up/down each year.

Drawbacks include a final 6 in the premier comp = less TV rights for finals but this could be made up by selling finals to TV for Div 1 promotion battles. Another issue is a second venue in Adelaide for footy (eg if all 4 clubs are in the Premier comp) - this opens the door for Adelaide Oval (and the WACA in WA) - something the state leagues wont like either.

And with this proposal, what about licence fees? A newly structured comp like this should require the Vic clubs to pay a licence fee ($4million?) and the second tier (new) clubs to pay $1 million plus when they make the premier comp, an annual licence fee until such time as they catch up to the fee paid by the other premier clubs.

Quick thoughts only tho...

I don't like the concept of 16 reserves team at all. 12 league and 12 other teams is far more palatable however.

[Macca19]

All very good points Aerie. Ill just answer some of yours:

Some reasons why I think it would be bad for the SANFL:

1) massive drop in quality of players. The AFL will need at least a further 200 players for AFL lists. Many of these (I'd say at least 50 or 60) will come from the SANFL. We wouldn't have players such as Jarrad, Treeby, McConnell, Lindsay, Clayton, Kenna etc. etc. in our comp. We also would lose all our best (and next best) juniors. The standard of the SANFL would not be worth watching any more.
2) less room in the media. As if we don't get too little already, ALL focus will be on the AFL and reserves competition and less room for SANFL.

This will only happen in the first season or two, not forever. Each year there will still be 80-100 delistees plus 100+ rookie delistings as well which will keep the state leagues turning over. Clubs without serious injury depletions like Port and Adelaide had last year will still see 30 AFL or Supp list players playing in the SANFL.

The standard of the competition is a fair point and it may suffer to begin with. On the flipside, more spots available on AFL lists = more possibility of making an AFL list = more possibility of continuing playing and reaching senior state league football if they dont get drafted. There are heaps of players every year that dont continue playing for their state league club if they dont get drafted.

I dont really think crowd/membership would be too effected unless the standard of the competition dropped off dramatically. I also dont think it would be a huge media thing either.

Althought I do agree with your point that it would mainly be about re-strengthening the Vic clubs, as everything the AFL decides does, I dont think having an AFL reserves competition is greedy. It makes common sense in my opinion to have all your players playing for the same club instead of split across a whole competition. It gives the AFL complete control over their investments. It would remove the situation where AFL clubs arent happy with gametime/positioning of some of their players and would remove players having to move SANFL clubs because of it.

A lot of people thought the Crows would spell the end of the SANFL...then when Port went in, that was supposed to spell the end of the SANFL. As it stands, it took a bit of a nosedive but it recovered and has strenghthened to a very good level currently. High in young and mature talent, good crowds, good turnover. Id say the same thing would happen again.

I love and enjoy the SANFL as much as anybody, I just dont think an AFL reserves would turn it into a shitty competition.

[Booney]

In the past I have been a supporter of expanding AFL lists from the current 38.Each and every time I have made this comment,I do it with some reservations.To expand the list to accomodate a reserves side I think will have some significant differences.To also draw more of the domestic leagues talent could be fatal,or would it?

The lists would have to be huge,perhaps 50 or more.22 take the field each and every week.Two teams,44 players with most clubs during the year having 4 or more injuries at once,that's a minimum of 48 players per list.As we see most years to have a list during the year with only 4 injuries at any one time probably means a successful year.Most clubs carry 8 or more at any one time.So lets say lists are 52,with a possibilty of the above mentioned Rookie list as back ups.

So this means 16 clubs,could possibly require from domestic leages (16 clubs X 14 extra players=224 players)Thats 224 players from as little as 5 competitions.SANFL,VFL,WAFL,QFL,TFL.With them in a reserves side attached to an AFL club,they are lost.Immediately.Perhaps this is over dramatic.

It could mean each and every league could lose 30-35 players.With,you would think the SANFL and VFL the most vulnerable.

Take into account the currently AFL listed players who regularly play in these leagues,and you dont think it would have much of an impact?

Footnote-The above list size of 52 could be contentious.I am open to discussion on the number of players required.

[am Bays]

The age reported lists of 55 Booney to cater for the reserves competition.......

[Macca19]

There would need to be supplementary list players who only play in case of injury and only play in the reserves. THese players would predominantly play in the state league and only a reasonably heavy injury list would see them play in the reserves. As i said previously:

Currently AFL lists are 38 senior players + a combined total of 6 Veterans & rookies (in whatever combination). Sydney and Brisbane are allowed 8 V & Rs.

My proposal would to be over the next two years, increase the senior list size to 44. So when everyone is fit, every AFL listed player plays in either seniors or reserves.

My proposal would be to increase the rookie list to either 8 or 10 players, probably 8. Currently most teams have 4 or 5 rookies. THe AFL this year I believe subsidised all clubs for the rookies salaries so each club could have a full rookie list.

With 8 rookies, this would give each club 52 players on their books. Interstate players would go through a mini draft just like they do now.

Each SA club would have a supplementary list of 9 players made up of 1 player from each SANFL team. My line of thought is to keep it to a player 21 or under. These players are only to play in the AFL reserves, would not be on the AFL clubs books and when they play, the SANFL clubs would be subsidised a specified match fee for those players, say $100 or $200 a player. Supp list players cannot be 'drafted' from interstate, same for Vic clubs etc.

Worst case scenario is a huge injury list to one of the clubs which means most of the supp list players players play AFL reserves. Best case scenario is that all the supp list players play SANFL as well as the AFL listed leftovers who dont fit in the first two teams.

Overall its 6 extra senior players x 16 afl clubs = 96 players
an average of 3.125 rookie list players x 16 afl clubs = 50 players

146 extra players.

As I said previously, each year there is around 60-100 delistees off the main list and usually a little bit more than that off the rookie lists. Thats at least 120-150 players off AFL lists each year. There will still be plenty of ex-afl and rookie list talent available for SANFL clubs to recruit. It would also put a greater need for the clubs to seriously develop their junior players and turn them into SANFL players.

I reckon it could work and still keep the integrity and competition of the SANFL intact

[Sam_goUUUdogs]

it seems like the afl think the only people that attend SANFL WAFL VFL matches are those there to support the game at grass roots, not an actual club, they dont seem to relise people do actaully support the clubs involved in these leagues still, and not all of them support the afl as their ''main footy''.
There way of thinking is bring in a reserves comp, then people from SANFL WAFL VFL will support that as the new grass roots while still being able to support their afl team.

[Wedgie]

Stuff the AFL, let's start a Super League with Southport, Central, Eagles, South, North, Port, Subiaco and any disgruntled VFL clubs.

[Macca19]

it seems like the afl think the only people that attend SANFL WAFL VFL matches are those there to support the game at grass roots, not an actual club, they dont seem to relise people do actaully support the clubs involved in these leagues still, and not all of them support the afl as their ''main footy''.
There way of thinking is bring in a reserves comp, then people from SANFL WAFL VFL will support that as the new grass roots while still being able to support their afl team.

I disagree wih that. I highly doubt they are thinking that creating specific reserves teams will bring new supporters to those clubs. It wont.

[Booney]

Worst case scenario is a huge injury list to one of the clubs which means most of the supp list players players play AFL reserves. Best case scenario is that all the supp list players play SANFL as well as the AFL listed leftovers who dont fit in the first two teams.


When is any club going to have a full list fit when you have 52 players playing a high level? The players playing AFL reserves are still not playing SANFL at all,and more may be taken if injury lists expand.


As I said previously, each year there is around 60-100 delistees off the main list and usually a little bit more than that off the rookie lists. Thats at least 120-150 players off AFL lists each year. There will still be plenty of ex-afl and rookie list talent available for SANFL clubs to recruit. It would also put a greater need for the clubs to seriously develop their junior players and turn them into SANFL players.

The only reason 60-100 get delisted each year is with lists of 38,retirements at a younger age and career ending injuries.Less would be delisted for 'talent' or lack of it.You would need the depth when fielding two sides.

[Sam_goUUUdogs]

it seems like the afl think the only people that attend SANFL WAFL VFL matches are those there to support the game at grass roots, not an actual club, they dont seem to relise people do actaully support the clubs involved in these leagues still, and not all of them support the afl as their ''main footy''.
There way of thinking is bring in a reserves comp, then people from SANFL WAFL VFL will support that as the new grass roots while still being able to support their afl team.

I disagree wih that. I highly doubt they are thinking that creating specific reserves teams will bring new supporters to those clubs. It wont.

what i mean by this is they think they will cater for both, by people being able to support the game at a lower level while still supporting their afl club, they do not seem to relise that people that attend SANFL go to SUPPORT THEIR TEAM, not just watch the game at a lower level.

[Wedgie]

Perhaps a national U18s comp to compliment the AFL might be the way to go if they head down that track.

[Pseudo]

Good to see both Neil Craig and some bloke from Port Power (forget the name, it wasn't Williams) getting behind the SANFL on the news this evening. Craig in particular said something along the lines of the setup we have here in SA being the best in the nation.

Personally I say keep those shitty AFL clubs OUT of the SANFL. If they must have reserves teams then so be it; but pollute somebody else's comp with them. The SANFL does not exist to keep AFL players fit. The SANFL clubs do not exist to supply AFL clubs with scratch matches. Letting Clowns and Smears field reserves teams in the comp would undermine its integrity.

[Snaggletooth Tiger]

Stuff the AFL, let's start a Super League with Southport, Central, Eagles, South, North, Port, Subiaco and any disgruntled VFL clubs.

An Aussie Rulz 'Super League' in all honesty would be about as successful as the



...2001 is a year I'm sure Vince McMahon would love to forget!

[Psyber]

It seems the plan is for the AFL/Telstra/Foxtel axis to control all the best players, diminish all other leagues, then charge us as much as they possibly can to see football at other than parkland standard via memberships, Foxtel subscription or BigPond.

This is akin to Telstra's other plan to let the copper rot in the ground and all ADSL collapse, then run fibre to the home and claim this new service does not come under the service guarantee obligations, so they don't have to allow competitors to use it. Another monopoly they can charge highly for. Fortunately, Helen Coonan has said they will be obliged to allow competitors to have bitstream access over the cable in this circumstance. Of course whether a different federal government would make a deal that let them get away with it is uncertain. The Murdoch and Packer empires stand to make a lot of money from their shares if Telstra get the monopoly so they may back a political party prepared to let it happen!