The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

[UK Fan]

2015 Port 12th Crows 9th with reserves teams
2013 Port 7th Crows 11th without reserves teams.

Great job AFL reserves teams.


When Power crowds are down: we must build a new 600mill stadium at tax payers expense.



When SANFL crowds are down: Meh. Get with the times SANFL fans. Social media is up.


WHat a great era of SA football we are in.

[JK]

Again I come back to the lack of accountability and transparency on the sale of West Lakes. $70mil for something once reported to be as high as $300mil is obviously a massive variance. That $300mil if managed correctly (always questionable where the SANFL is concerned) was surely enough to protect the standard and future of the competition and its clubs.

[LPH]

Credibility? Compromise? Integrity?

[Booney]

Long Term?
The key for the Clubs in making money, may well lie in the Academy type set up - similar to Europe.
The AFL Draft makes that difficult at present but who is to say that won't change at some point?
Having % payments made to the Clubs that develop the elite kids, allows Clubs to survive throughout Europe.
On-Sell Clauses, Transfer Fees, etc.

Wouldn't an academy cost money to set up and maintain? I think the move to U18's and shorter U16's seasons was to aid the clubs (getting rid of 17's / 19's ) and in some ways developed an academy of sorts.

Clubs currently run development programs through the juniors and it seems some are better than others at doing this. ie - The Eagles and Westies develop far more "top end*" talent than Centrals do.

*Top end being AFL drafted players.

[Booney]

The Clubs thought (wrongly IMHO) that the 'easy cash' from the AFL Clubs was the answer.
It wasn't.
The problem they have made for themselves is that Membership money has diminished significantly, as (I assume) has Sponsorship money, Gate takings & Bar/Food/Beverage. To make it more affordable for people to go to the SANFL, they need to cut Admissions & Costs - going Semi-Ammo instead of Semi-Pro, may well allow this to occur. Under 25s will probably want to play for the 8 Clubs (in general) above playing for other Ammo Clubs because of facilities, etc. Younger Country Zoned Players will still have the pathway to AFL via the SANFL Club, even in "Div 1" - say a Club were relegated, that would give a greater opportunity to play/develop kids.

I agree. Admission now keeps people away. The cost of a trip to the SANFL with the family, or even on your own, has increased to the point that many people would not be able to afford to attend.

Problem with this though, the clubs slice becomes less. I think it needs to be made a more attractive "product" ( I hate using that term ) for people to spend their entertainment $$$'s on.

[Dutchy]

Again I come back to the lack of accountability and transparency on the sale of West Lakes. $70mil for something once reported to be as high as $300mil is obviously a massive variance. That $300mil if managed correctly (always questionable where the SANFL is concerned) was surely enough to protect the standard and future of the competition and its clubs.

Demand has dropped for a slice of land like that, 5-10 years ago you would have 4-5 developers jumping all over it and the SANFL would have got a premium price, now they had to take what they could due to the poor financial position the league is in (and the buyer would have known this).

[mighty_tiger_79]

The Clubs thought (wrongly IMHO) that the 'easy cash' from the AFL Clubs was the answer.
It wasn't.
The problem they have made for themselves is that Membership money has diminished significantly, as (I assume) has Sponsorship money, Gate takings & Bar/Food/Beverage. To make it more affordable for people to go to the SANFL, they need to cut Admissions & Costs - going Semi-Ammo instead of Semi-Pro, may well allow this to occur. Under 25s will probably want to play for the 8 Clubs (in general) above playing for other Ammo Clubs because of facilities, etc. Younger Country Zoned Players will still have the pathway to AFL via the SANFL Club, even in "Div 1" - say a Club were relegated, that would give a greater opportunity to play/develop kids.

I agree. Admission now keeps people away. The cost of a trip to the SANFL with the family, or even on your own, has increased to the point that many people would not be able to afford to attend.

Problem with this though, the clubs slice becomes less. I think it needs to be made a more attractive "product" ( I hate using that term ) for people to spend their entertainment $$$'s on.

matchday experience

[cennals05]

FIVEaa just asked for SANFL fans to call or text and say why they are not going. Text 1999 1395 and let them know it's because of the AFL reserves.

[am Bays]

FIVEaa just asked for SANFL fans to call or text and say why they are not going. Text 1999 1395 and let them know it's because of the AFL reserves.

Waiting to hear anything abut the SANFL

is this a ruse by you to get us to listen to fiveAA

Haven't listened since they got rid of Bone and put in the Crows puppet

[bennymacca]

The Clubs thought (wrongly IMHO) that the 'easy cash' from the AFL Clubs was the answer.
It wasn't.
The problem they have made for themselves is that Membership money has diminished significantly, as (I assume) has Sponsorship money, Gate takings & Bar/Food/Beverage. To make it more affordable for people to go to the SANFL, they need to cut Admissions & Costs - going Semi-Ammo instead of Semi-Pro, may well allow this to occur. Under 25s will probably want to play for the 8 Clubs (in general) above playing for other Ammo Clubs because of facilities, etc. Younger Country Zoned Players will still have the pathway to AFL via the SANFL Club, even in "Div 1" - say a Club were relegated, that would give a greater opportunity to play/develop kids.

I agree. Admission now keeps people away. The cost of a trip to the SANFL with the family, or even on your own, has increased to the point that many people would not be able to afford to attend.

Problem with this though, the clubs slice becomes less. I think it needs to be made a more attractive "product" ( I hate using that term ) for people to spend their entertainment $$$'s on.

you honestly think further lowering the standard will bring people back? I dont.

havent been on in a few days, and whilst it was enjoyable reading ramrod, he actually did bring up one decent point - the standard of the comp as a whole would have dropped, as there is an extra team. Could that be another reason the crowds have dropped?

One of the reasons i liked following the sanfl was to see how the afl listed players were doing.
But now I only have to look at the crows match report to do that, so my overall interest has gone down.
Moreover, I dont really feel compelled to go and watch a crows game because it is a reserves game, and if i only have so much time in the week im definitely not spending it going to a reserves game.

So yes, i agree with others that there should be a national AFL reserves comp. But this will also hurt the SANFL. It will be "pure" as some people want it, but it will be at a much lower standard, and with that will come continued dwindling crowds.

[tipper]

FIVEaa just asked for SANFL fans to call or text and say why they are not going. Text 1999 1395 and let them know it's because of the AFL reserves.

i texted. let me know if they read any of them out,

[cennals05]

FIVEaa just asked for SANFL fans to call or text and say why they are not going. Text 1999 1395 and let them know it's because of the AFL reserves.

Waiting to hear anything abut the SANFL

is this a ruse by you to get us to listen to fiveAA

Haven't listened since they got rid of Bone and put in the Crows puppet

They are just reading out some of the texts sent in now.

[tipper]

The Clubs thought (wrongly IMHO) that the 'easy cash' from the AFL Clubs was the answer.
It wasn't.
The problem they have made for themselves is that Membership money has diminished significantly, as (I assume) has Sponsorship money, Gate takings & Bar/Food/Beverage. To make it more affordable for people to go to the SANFL, they need to cut Admissions & Costs - going Semi-Ammo instead of Semi-Pro, may well allow this to occur. Under 25s will probably want to play for the 8 Clubs (in general) above playing for other Ammo Clubs because of facilities, etc. Younger Country Zoned Players will still have the pathway to AFL via the SANFL Club, even in "Div 1" - say a Club were relegated, that would give a greater opportunity to play/develop kids.

I agree. Admission now keeps people away. The cost of a trip to the SANFL with the family, or even on your own, has increased to the point that many people would not be able to afford to attend.

Problem with this though, the clubs slice becomes less. I think it needs to be made a more attractive "product" ( I hate using that term ) for people to spend their entertainment $$$'s on.

you honestly think further lowering the standard will bring people back? I dont.

havent been on in a few days, and whilst it was enjoyable reading ramrod, he actually did bring up one decent point - the standard of the comp as a whole would have dropped, as there is an extra team. Could that be another reason the crowds have dropped?

One of the reasons i liked following the sanfl was to see how the afl listed players were doing.
But now I only have to look at the crows match report to do that, so my overall interest has gone down.
Moreover, I dont really feel compelled to go and watch a crows game because it is a reserves game, and if i only have so much time in the week im definitely not spending it going to a reserves game.

So yes, i agree with others that there should be a national AFL reserves comp. But this will also hurt the SANFL. It will be "pure" as some people want it, but it will be at a much lower standard, and with that will come continued dwindling crowds.

Wait... are you now using the same reasons the No AFL posters were stating all along as reasons your interest in the SANFL has dropped? the same reasons you argued so long against?

ffs why couldnt you and the other "pro" people (particularly the sanfl directors.....) realise the sense in the "against" arguments two and a half ******* years ago.....

[tipper]

FIVEaa just asked for SANFL fans to call or text and say why they are not going. Text 1999 1395 and let them know it's because of the AFL reserves.

Waiting to hear anything abut the SANFL

is this a ruse by you to get us to listen to fiveAA

Haven't listened since they got rid of Bone and put in the Crows puppet

They are just reading out some of the texts sent in now.

and what are the reasons? and how are the "texters" being portrayed? as whingers stuck in the past or as people with genuine issues?

[CENTURION]

Rowey understands why people aren't going.

[Booney]

The Clubs thought (wrongly IMHO) that the 'easy cash' from the AFL Clubs was the answer.
It wasn't.
The problem they have made for themselves is that Membership money has diminished significantly, as (I assume) has Sponsorship money, Gate takings & Bar/Food/Beverage. To make it more affordable for people to go to the SANFL, they need to cut Admissions & Costs - going Semi-Ammo instead of Semi-Pro, may well allow this to occur. Under 25s will probably want to play for the 8 Clubs (in general) above playing for other Ammo Clubs because of facilities, etc. Younger Country Zoned Players will still have the pathway to AFL via the SANFL Club, even in "Div 1" - say a Club were relegated, that would give a greater opportunity to play/develop kids.

I agree. Admission now keeps people away. The cost of a trip to the SANFL with the family, or even on your own, has increased to the point that many people would not be able to afford to attend.

Problem with this though, the clubs slice becomes less. I think it needs to be made a more attractive "product" ( I hate using that term ) for people to spend their entertainment $$$'s on.

you honestly think further lowering the standard will bring people back? I dont.

havent been on in a few days, and whilst it was enjoyable reading ramrod, he actually did bring up one decent point - the standard of the comp as a whole would have dropped, as there is an extra team. Could that be another reason the crowds have dropped?

One of the reasons i liked following the sanfl was to see how the afl listed players were doing.
But now I only have to look at the crows match report to do that, so my overall interest has gone down.
Moreover, I dont really feel compelled to go and watch a crows game because it is a reserves game, and if i only have so much time in the week im definitely not spending it going to a reserves game.

So yes, i agree with others that there should be a national AFL reserves comp. But this will also hurt the SANFL. It will be "pure" as some people want it, but it will be at a much lower standard, and with that will come continued dwindling crowds.

I didn't say drop the standard, I said drop the price of admission.

[wild dog]

Again I come back to the lack of accountability and transparency on the sale of West Lakes. $70mil for something once reported to be as high as $300mil is obviously a massive variance. That $300mil if managed correctly (always questionable where the SANFL is concerned) was surely enough to protect the standard and future of the competition and its clubs.

Demand has dropped for a slice of land like that, 5-10 years ago you would have 4-5 developers jumping all over it and the SANFL would have got a premium price, now they had to take what they could due to the poor financial position the league is in (and the buyer would have known this).

Indicative value of the development is $1.2 Billion to be completed in 10 - 15 years, that's obviously after the cap ex. Roughly, the area that can be developed is 174,000 sqm, that's taking out Footy park and the crows HQ. That equates to $400 per sqm of land. There are some stormwater reserves, roadways etc so that area is reduced once again so the price per sqm is going northwards. C&G are proposing to realign Brebner, and with other infrastructure requirements, no one is making a fortune out of it IMHO.

300 million would mean they are paying $1726.41 per sqm. That's prime beachside or East burbs stuff. I realise they are going for medium density , and Im sure others in real estate would know better, but that seems a high rate to purchase undeveloped land and make money out of it.

For me, the SANFL can prosper if the money is not left as a future fund to make the conservative accountants feel warm and fuzzy. Some of it needs to be used now, and we need to go another level in terms of live streaming and crowd participation. The stats that are being collected need to be shared live. Include the spectator, don't hind the info away. Allow smart apps to analyse data and tell the crowd what is happening, ie forward press, one on one etc.. The technology is there now. Going further, if you chip players (not surgically, in their jumpers etc,) it becomes much more accurate, quicker and cheaper.

I posted a link to an article in another thread http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/jul/15/understanding-afl-tactics-russell-jackson where the journo is arguing that the average spectator is baffled, but need not be if the correct stats are shared in a presentable fashion. Problem is the clubs don't want to share this stuff.

IMO with so many app developers about, creating a system would not be a prohibitively expensive exercise.

[RB]

So yes, i agree with others that there should be a national AFL reserves comp. But this will also hurt the SANFL. It will be "pure" as some people want it, but it will be at a much lower standard, and with that will come continued dwindling crowds.

Really?

[bennymacca]

The Clubs thought (wrongly IMHO) that the 'easy cash' from the AFL Clubs was the answer.
It wasn't.
The problem they have made for themselves is that Membership money has diminished significantly, as (I assume) has Sponsorship money, Gate takings & Bar/Food/Beverage. To make it more affordable for people to go to the SANFL, they need to cut Admissions & Costs - going Semi-Ammo instead of Semi-Pro, may well allow this to occur. Under 25s will probably want to play for the 8 Clubs (in general) above playing for other Ammo Clubs because of facilities, etc. Younger Country Zoned Players will still have the pathway to AFL via the SANFL Club, even in "Div 1" - say a Club were relegated, that would give a greater opportunity to play/develop kids.

I agree. Admission now keeps people away. The cost of a trip to the SANFL with the family, or even on your own, has increased to the point that many people would not be able to afford to attend.

Problem with this though, the clubs slice becomes less. I think it needs to be made a more attractive "product" ( I hate using that term ) for people to spend their entertainment $$$'s on.

you honestly think further lowering the standard will bring people back? I dont.

havent been on in a few days, and whilst it was enjoyable reading ramrod, he actually did bring up one decent point - the standard of the comp as a whole would have dropped, as there is an extra team. Could that be another reason the crowds have dropped?

One of the reasons i liked following the sanfl was to see how the afl listed players were doing.
But now I only have to look at the crows match report to do that, so my overall interest has gone down.
Moreover, I dont really feel compelled to go and watch a crows game because it is a reserves game, and if i only have so much time in the week im definitely not spending it going to a reserves game.

So yes, i agree with others that there should be a national AFL reserves comp. But this will also hurt the SANFL. It will be "pure" as some people want it, but it will be at a much lower standard, and with that will come continued dwindling crowds.

Wait... are you now using the same reasons the No AFL posters were stating all along as reasons your interest in the SANFL has dropped? the same reasons you argued so long against?

ffs why couldnt you and the other "pro" people (particularly the sanfl directors.....) realise the sense in the "against" arguments two and a half ******* years ago.....

ah so im not allowed to change my opinion? as ive said all along i was never "pro" anything i was just making the point that it wouldnt be as bad as everyone predicted and i was wrong about that.

So yes, i agree with others that there should be a national AFL reserves comp. But this will also hurt the SANFL. It will be "pure" as some people want it, but it will be at a much lower standard, and with that will come continued dwindling crowds.

Really?

removing all AFL involvement and implementing an AFL reserves comp will certainly lower the standard imo.

Im making an assumption here but the rules for topup players would change, and they would be allowed to sign a few players. Some of these players may then have an sanfl club.

What will happen though is that players looking to get back into the AFL somehow will almost certainly play in the AFL reserves instead of the SANFL, and the SANFL would then be the third tier rather than the second.

Seems logical to me that this would lower the standard.

[LPH]

The standard is not the issue IMHO.
Survival of the Clubs from here, is the issue.
Revenue streams & bottom line WILL be effected even more if the 'interlopers' are gone.
The CEO's bought the Cows Lies on Crowd Numbers, took the $50K & (in the case of Kurt) believed "... you'll be back".
Their opportunity to 'grow their business' past them by, when they 'caved' - getting people back to their Clubs is going to be VERY difficult from here.