This time the AFL has gone too far....

[JamesH]

is there a reason why all but 1 AFL club is involved in a joint venture in the VFL if they wanted reserve grade teams.

VFL rules state that each Vic based AFL club can field a reserves team (Geelong the only one)

[Dutchy]

is there a reason why all but 1 AFL club is involved in a joint venture in the VFL if they wanted reserve grade teams.

VFL rules state that each Vic based AFL club can field a reserves team (Geelong the only one)

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[johntheclaret]

Introduce promotion and relegation.
GF winners of each state league get promoted to the AFL premier league
Scrap the stupid draft system altogether. Each club has 1st choice of recruits from their own pool area.
Clubs can buy and sell players as they see fit
Maintain a salary cap to prevent the biggest clubs from dominating the league based on financial strength.
Clubs can recruit from other clubs pool areas providing the player has not already been approached by the parent club.
Clubs found to be "poaching" players from outside their own pool area would suffer financially and points deducted.
AFL clubs would enter their reserve teams in the same league as the state legue resereves. (All players need competitive footy week in week out.

Effects:
Stronger state leagues like SANFL, would be revitalised with something real to fight for, especially during the preliminary finals so getting in the top 5 will have added bit.
Weaker state leagues would be developed with the carrot of getting the GF winners in the AFL. Whilst the weaker state league winners may be the whipping boys of the AFL initially, in time they would get stronger as interest in the state league grows.
Fairer distribution of $$$$$$$$$$. State leagues would benefit from increased crowds and TV money, retention of quality players that currently get drafted to the VFL and the prospect (e,g, SANFL) of having 3 or 4 or more AFL teams, ergo more local derbies. more local interest.
Teams relegated from the AFL would compete in their local state league, generating more interest at state level (Imagine the Crows / Power playing in SANFL or Essenden playing in the VFL). Equally imagine North and WWT playing in the AFL alongside the Crows and Power.
Some form of compensation could be given to relegated clubs to ease the transition from AFL to state league in the first year.

Simple really.

[Hondo]

You can't go to a relegation and demotion system that's just pie in the sky stuff. For that to work the state league clubs have to be operationally and financially ready to step in to the AFL with 3 months' notice. Television, sponsorship and player/official contractual relationships all rely on knowing where the club is going in the next 2-3 years without uncertaintly as to which league the club is playing in. You will also create "super teams" within the state leagues - those 3 to 4 teams with a realistic chance of promotion - remember Garville & Contax dominating the local comp in the NNL.

That will never, ever, ever happen ....

[Aerie]

Don't like that idea at all johntheclaret. Notice your location is the northern hemisphere. Probably works better up there. I think the current SANFL clubs do have something real to fight for.

[Adelaide Hawk]

The AFL have said a national reserves competition is on the very bottom of their list of priorities and won't be happening any time soon, if ever. No need for concern.

*bump*

[Barto]

Stand down the bombers and the missiles. Return to Defcon 5.

http://www.afl.com.au/Season2007/News/N ... wsId=38869

[giffo]

Could we one day see a merged Port/Crows side as the tenth team in the SANFL?

Bloody hope not!!

Bring in a Crows reserves team and have all the Power players go to the Magpies

I would rather die then see Westhoff, Symes, etc; in a bloody swampy jumper and as born & bred Northerners, they probably feel the same.

[westside]

Stand down the bombers and the missiles. Return to Defcon 5.

http://www.afl.com.au/Season2007/News/N ... wsId=38869

I'll believe it when I don't see it.

[Psyber]

Could we one day see a merged Port/Crows side as the tenth team in the SANFL?

Bloody hope not!!

Bring in a Crows reserves team and have all the Power players go to the Magpies

Yeh .. but only if all the former SANFL players on PPs list go back to their SANFL clubs first and PP only have former Magpies and interstate recruits.

Personally, I think Port should have been allowed to join the VFL, then been thrown out of the SANFL and the territory redistributed, and the SANFL player retention scheme maintained..

[Barto]

Could we one day see a merged Port/Crows side as the tenth team in the SANFL?

Bloody hope not!!

Bring in a Crows reserves team and have all the Power players go to the Magpies

Yeh .. but only if all the former SANFL players on PPs list go back to their SANFL clubs first and PP only have former Magpies and interstate recruits.

Personally, I think Port should have been allowed to join the VFL, then been thrown out of the SANFL and the territory redistributed, and the SANFL player retention scheme maintained..

That was my preferred option at the time and it would have left us with an 8 team comp. Would have been interesting had Port been forced to totally go it alone without the benefit of having access to Footy Park. Do you think Port would have struggled on their own or would the SANFL have struggled without the financial input of the Camries?

[Psyber]

That was my preferred option at the time and it would have left us with an 8 team comp. Would have been interesting had Port been forced to totally go it alone without the benefit of having access to Footy Park. Do you think Port would have struggled on their own or would the SANFL have struggled without the financial input of the Camries?

I suspect that the player retention team would have held up the quality, after all it helped keep players like Gary McIntosh and Michael Aish at Norwood, and without the rivalry of the Power and Crows playing in SA the gate money would have held up too. I think Port would have struggled on their own with no supporters but their home-grown ones. I'd have had the SANFL move a team locals could relate to into Alberton Oval - perhaps West Adelaide as "Westport" to really make them squirm, as that team could have stolen some of the supporter base too by keeping the prison bar uniform with just a dash of red, and perhaps the Magpie logo with a red addition.

Ultimately, I think a national competition would have developed, but perhaps a more balanced one, not a rebadged VFL.

[redandblack]

That was my preferred option at the time and it would have left us with an 8 team comp. Would have been interesting had Port been forced to totally go it alone without the benefit of having access to Footy Park. Do you think Port would have struggled on their own or would the SANFL have struggled without the financial input of the Camries?

I suspect that the player retention team would have held up the quality, after all it helped keep players like Gary McIntosh and Michael Aish at Norwood, and without the rivalry of the Power and Crows playing in SA the gate money would have held up too. I think Port would have struggled on their own with no supporters but their home-grown ones. I'd have had the SANFL move a team locals could relate to into Alberton Oval - perhaps West Adelaide as "Westport" to really make them squirm, as that team could have stolen some of the supporter base too by keeping the prison bar uniform with just a dash of red, and perhaps the Magpie logo with a red addition.
Ultimately, I think a national competition would have developed, but perhaps a more balanced one, not a rebadged VFL.

That is close to a declaration of war between us, Psyber.

[Coorong]

That was my preferred option at the time and it would have left us with an 8 team comp. Would have been interesting had Port been forced to totally go it alone without the benefit of having access to Footy Park. Do you think Port would have struggled on their own or would the SANFL have struggled without the financial input of the Camries?

I suspect that the player retention team would have held up the quality, after all it helped keep players like Gary McIntosh and Michael Aish at Norwood, and without the rivalry of the Power and Crows playing in SA the gate money would have held up too. I think Port would have struggled on their own with no supporters but their home-grown ones. I'd have had the SANFL move a team locals could relate to into Alberton Oval - perhaps West Adelaide as "Westport" to really make them squirm, as that team could have stolen some of the supporter base too by keeping the prison bar uniform with just a dash of red, and perhaps the Magpie logo with a red addition.
Ultimately, I think a national competition would have developed, but perhaps a more balanced one, not a rebadged VFL.

That is close to a declaration of war between us, Psyber.

No... definately a full on declaration.

[Hazydog]

The day the SANFL contains an AFL reserve side is the day it loses it's integrity. A reserves side first priority has never been & will never be to win a premiership. Too many conflicts of interest re developing younger players & bringing back injured players to worry about before planning to actually win games.

I dont see how the AFL could decide to introduce reserve teams for the Victorian clubs only as surely the other interstate teams would be disadvantaged in terms of how many players they had on their list to develop. So lets say, to even the ledger, the interstate get bigger player lists- this would result in more players having to play in the SANFL, placing us closer to the current VFL situation of a third or even half of your team rocking up on match day for a run.

So as I see it- any decision to introduce AFL reserves teams under any of the plans tabled will be bad news for the SANFL

[Hazydog]

The day the SANFL contains an AFL reserve side is the day it loses it's integrity. A reserves side first priority has never been & will never be to win a premiership. Too many conflicts of interest re developing younger players & bringing back injured players to worry about before planning to actually win games.

I dont see how the AFL could decide to introduce reserve teams for the Victorian clubs only as surely the other interstate teams would be disadvantaged in terms of how many players they had on their list to develop. So lets say, to even the ledger, the interstate get bigger player lists- this would result in more players having to play in the SANFL, placing us closer to the current VFL situation of a third or even half of your team rocking up on match day for a run.

So as I see it- any decision to introduce AFL reserves teams under any of the plans tabled will be bad news for the SANFL

[Pseudo]

I'd have had the SANFL move a team locals could relate to into Alberton Oval - perhaps West Adelaide as "Westport" to really make them squirm, as that team could have stolen some of the supporter base too by keeping the prison bar uniform with just a dash of red, and perhaps the Magpie logo with a red addition.

A black, white and red magpie. Those Central fans who turned up at footy park with a Magpie-on-a-stick were years ahead of their time

[johntheclaret]

Don't like that idea at all johntheclaret. Notice your location is the northern hemisphere. Probably works better up there. I think the current SANFL clubs do have something real to fight for.

Wasn't suggesting that the current SANFL don't have something real to play for now Aerie. I understand how important a flag is to any club and their supporters.
The point of my thoughts was with an emphsis on the potential financial benefits SANFL clubs could achieve, with bigger crowds and TV deals.
You are right, it does work better up here, and there are a few, big city clubs that yo yo in and out of the premiership year after year, Sunderland, West Brom, Birmingham City to name a few, but there are also plenty of "fairy tales" too with smaller, less fasionable clubs making it to the big time, Reading, Watford and wigan for example over the last couple of years, two of which have down pretty well against the big boys.

Don't forget the drafting system would be scrapped so clubs who develope real talent won't automatically lose them the the AFL, as now, and then have to wait for the scraps off the AFL clubs table.

PS,
Just because my current location is the Northern Hemisphere doesn't mean that it has always been that way mate.

[blues2002]

You can't go to a relegation and demotion system that's just pie in the sky stuff. For that to work the state league clubs have to be operationally and financially ready to step in to the AFL with 3 months' notice. Television, sponsorship and player/official contractual relationships all rely on knowing where the club is going in the next 2-3 years without uncertaintly as to which league the club is playing in. You will also create "super teams" within the state leagues - those 3 to 4 teams with a realistic chance of promotion - remember Garville & Contax dominating the local comp in the NNL.

That will never, ever, ever happen ....

Sure it could happen. The AFL would just have to be able to support the less financial teams - that already happens.
Get rid of the draft that rewards mediocre clubs and make the clubs have their own academies of juniors. The more astute smaller clubs could recruit and develop good juniors and get the $$$ benefits of that.
Teams that get promoted know they will have bigger revenue and could spend up to strengthen their squads.
Teams demoted could "loan out" their higher paid stars, sell a few others (who were obviously performing badly anyway and let the club get demoted) and concentrate on developing their juniors to get back up to the premier comp.
As johntheclaret has mentioned "lesser" teams are capable of competing with all bar the top few teams in the EPL - on budgets 1/10th (or less in most cases) of the size of the bigger clubs.

[johntheclaret]

You can't go to a relegation and demotion system that's just pie in the sky stuff. For that to work the state league clubs have to be operationally and financially ready to step in to the AFL with 3 months' notice. Television, sponsorship and player/official contractual relationships all rely on knowing where the club is going in the next 2-3 years without uncertaintly as to which league the club is playing in. You will also create "super teams" within the state leagues - those 3 to 4 teams with a realistic chance of promotion - remember Garville & Contax dominating the local comp in the NNL.

That will never, ever, ever happen ....

Without really knowing the contractural set up with TV companies, I could not offer an argument to your statement Hondo71, but surely the TV rights are sewn up with the league and not the individual club. If so, it would not matter who is promoted or relegated, (to the TV people that is), and in some ways, to have a 'big name' drop into the state league, could prove very interesting for the TV people as it would generate added interest. Imagine the interest in the VFL if Carlton or Essenden had been relegated last year.

My point stands true to sponsorship and player contracts. Sponsors of the SANFL would still be sponsors of the SANFL. irrespective of which clubs happen to make up the league that year. And what disadvantages would there to the sponsors of the SANFL? I can't see any personally. as the GF would still be the ultimate State League prize as it is now, the only difference is that the winner, wins the right to play in the premier league. The clubs would definately benefit from the prospect of promotion with greater TV coverage and bigger crowds, upping the value of a sponsorship deal. Even potential sponsors would be encouraged to gamble on a possible promotion.

Operationally and financially, there is some catching up to do, no argument there, but SA has two staduims that can accomodate the crowds (they already have two AFL teams now who draw 30k+ crowds), and with salary caps and abolision of the draft, promoted clubs would soon acclimatise. It is clear that the state wants to see AFL footy, all you need to do is look at the attendances of the two 'invented' teams from SA that compete now so putting bums on seats should be no problem.

As for creating super teams. In some respects that is what we already have. This year as last, there are only 3 -4 teams that have a realistic chance of wining the flag. example Eagles, Centrals and North and there are a number of teams that are very unlikely to have a chance of wining the flag, example Sturt, West, Norwood. This is not a critism or prediction, just logical thinking, and from a supported base, Port (the real Port Adelaide that is) has been one of the best suported clubs in the SANFL since I can remember, and again wage capping will stop the wealthier clubs from taking over the game.

Personally, for me I think it would be fantastic to see North playing the likes of Hawthorn, WCE, even A Crows, and especially Carlton, week in week out.