SA Footy

bennymacca wrote:I agree that it seems to be a fair bit worse than predicted, but i feel like it is somewhat a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Bloke predicts that nobody will go
Bloke doesnt go
Bloke says "i told you so"

Bloke knew there would be others like him. Bloke was right. What's the self-fulfilling prophecy got to do with anything? Several SANFL fans said they and others would stay away, and they warned their clubs.

bennymacca wrote:That is a failing of the AFL sides. I have heard a lot from the crows about how being in the SANFL will be good, but I dont see that much of an effort to actually get me to a game. I think they were just operating on the assumption that lots of us crows fans would go, especially when the AFL side is playing in melbourne.

From the Crows perspective being in the SANFL is good - It provides them with a good standard for their reserves. They could give a rats about SANFL crowds (and to be fair, why should they care?)

Agreed JK. However there seems to be a few that are so ANTI it they want to say it has a part to do with their or other clubs debt. Did SANFL supporters ABANDON their club when Woodville came in ? Did they ABANDON their club when Central came in ?

They are just doing their club and the competition a disservice . If their argument is accurate I assume them not staying away clubs would make a profit ? So in actual fact it's these people to blame from their logic. Hasn't there been clubs make a profit recently ?
To make it clear ...........I AM AGAINST THE AFL TEAMS IN OUR COMPETITION.

Can I ask what model do the majority of people on this forum want

1) existing
2) the previous one where afl players were divided amount the clubs
3) no afl players at all

If 3) would the SANFL be that then a senior competition or more like an under 23 comp,

My preference would be an AFL reserve competition and then the SANFL is an under 23 competition (as there may not be the money to keep older players from going to the bush). I agree that the competition unfair now but I also did not like afl players coming in and out of south in the old structure.

Bounce of the ball wrote:Agreed JK. However there seems to be a few that are so ANTI it they want to say it has a part to do with their or other clubs debt. Did SANFL supporters ABANDON their club when Woodville came in ? Did they ABANDON their club when Central came in ?

they arent even anywhere near the same situation as we have now. not sure how you think that entering two new standalone teams is in any way comparable to the reserves situation....

Bounce of the ball wrote:They are just doing their club and the competition a disservice . If their argument is accurate I assume them not staying away clubs would make a profit ? So in actual fact it's these people to blame from their logic. Hasn't there been clubs make a profit recently ?
To make it clear ...........I AM AGAINST THE AFL TEAMS IN OUR COMPETITION.

the argument is accurate. the reserves sides have contributed to a drop in crowds, which in turn hurts clubs bottom lines. however, no one has said they are completely responsible, not have they said that removing them will be some miraculous saviour of all the clubs finances. it will help the clubs, but there will need to be more than just that change to completely change the finances

to make it clear, you are coming across like you are in favour of them staying......

Fluffbag wrote:Can I ask what model do the majority of people on this forum want

1) existing
2) the previous one where afl players were divided amount the clubs
3) no afl players at all

If 3) would the SANFL be that then a senior competition or more like an under 23 comp,

My preference would be an AFL reserve competition and then the SANFL is an under 23 competition (as there may not be the money to keep older players from going to the bush). I agree that the competition unfair now but I also did not like afl players coming in and out of south in the old structure.

3, but why does the sanfl then "need" to be an under 23 thing?? doesnt make sense. and as to where the extra afl players go? i really couldnt give a stuff

tipper wrote:

Fluffbag wrote:Can I ask what model do the majority of people on this forum want

1) existing
2) the previous one where afl players were divided amount the clubs
3) no afl players at all

If 3) would the SANFL be that then a senior competition or more like an under 23 comp,

My preference would be an AFL reserve competition and then the SANFL is an under 23 competition (as there may not be the money to keep older players from going to the bush). I agree that the competition unfair now but I also did not like afl players coming in and out of south in the old structure.

3, but why does the sanfl then "need" to be an under 23 thing?? doesnt make sense. and as to where the extra afl players go? i really couldnt give a stuff

You may not give a stuff about the extra afl players but they are young Australian kids trying to build a career and they need to be included as part of the discussion as well

not if coming from the sanfl perspective they dont

Fluffbag wrote:

tipper wrote:

Fluffbag wrote:Can I ask what model do the majority of people on this forum want

1) existing
2) the previous one where afl players were divided amount the clubs
3) no afl players at all

If 3) would the SANFL be that then a senior competition or more like an under 23 comp,

My preference would be an AFL reserve competition and then the SANFL is an under 23 competition (as there may not be the money to keep older players from going to the bush). I agree that the competition unfair now but I also did not like afl players coming in and out of south in the old structure.

3, but why does the sanfl then "need" to be an under 23 thing?? doesnt make sense. and as to where the extra afl players go? i really couldnt give a stuff

You may not give a stuff about the extra afl players but they are young Australian kids trying to build a career and they need to be included as part of the discussion as well

Maybe the 'AFL' should show more care about them then!

tipper wrote:

Bounce of the ball wrote:Agreed JK. However there seems to be a few that are so ANTI it they want to say it has a part to do with their or other clubs debt. Did SANFL supporters ABANDON their club when Woodville came in ? Did they ABANDON their club when Central came in ?

they arent even anywhere near the same situation as we have now. not sure how you think that entering two new standalone teams is in any way comparable to the reserves situation....

Bounce of the ball wrote:They are just doing their club and the competition a disservice . If their argument is accurate I assume them not staying away clubs would make a profit ? So in actual fact it's these people to blame from their logic. Hasn't there been clubs make a profit recently ?
To make it clear ...........I AM AGAINST THE AFL TEAMS IN OUR COMPETITION.

the argument is accurate. the reserves sides have contributed to a drop in crowds, which in turn hurts clubs bottom lines. however, no one has said they are completely responsible, not have they said that removing them will be some miraculous saviour of all the clubs finances. it will help the clubs, but there will need to be more than just that change to completely change the finances

to make it clear, you are coming across like you are in favour of them staying......

I would have thought my comments in capitals was clear enough .

they are, its the rest of your post that gives the opposite impression

Bounce of the ball wrote:Agreed JK. However there seems to be a few that are so ANTI it they want to say it has a part to do with their or other clubs debt. Did SANFL supporters ABANDON their club when Woodville came in ? Did they ABANDON their club when Central came in ?

They are just doing their club and the competition a disservice . If their argument is accurate I assume them not staying away clubs would make a profit ? So in actual fact it's these people to blame from their logic. Hasn't there been clubs make a profit recently ?
To make it clear ...........I AM AGAINST THE AFL TEAMS IN OUR COMPETITION.

My personal opinion for the clubs struggling financially today, is that's on them and not due to AFL clubs coming on board. However in the years to come, if the introduction of the AFL clubs, their lack of supporters, the byes in place to help their agreements, staggered rounds, schedule etc continue to impact on crowds, then that will naturally extend to clubs match day revenues falling. Thus it will only get worse if it can't be turned around, and unfortunately that doesn't look likely (hope I'm wrong of course).

whufc wrote:

Fluffbag wrote:

tipper wrote:

Fluffbag wrote:Can I ask what model do the majority of people on this forum want

1) existing
2) the previous one where afl players were divided amount the clubs
3) no afl players at all

If 3) would the SANFL be that then a senior competition or more like an under 23 comp,

My preference would be an AFL reserve competition and then the SANFL is an under 23 competition (as there may not be the money to keep older players from going to the bush). I agree that the competition unfair now but I also did not like afl players coming in and out of south in the old structure.

3, but why does the sanfl then "need" to be an under 23 thing?? doesnt make sense. and as to where the extra afl players go? i really couldnt give a stuff

You may not give a stuff about the extra afl players but they are young Australian kids trying to build a career and they need to be included as part of the discussion as well

Maybe the 'AFL' should show more care about them then!

Agree and that why an AFL reserve competition would be a better option for them

Agree and then the SANFL could promote itself as an alternative to the saturated , bright lighted world of the AFL.

whufc wrote:Agree and then the SANFL could promote itself as an alternative to the saturated , bright lighted world of the AFL.

And promote it as a cheaper option for the whole family but then the clubs will need to responsible in their spending as there may be less money around.

Vote on effect of reserves teams on SANFL (sorry, SAN..FL) here: http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/expert-opinion/michelangelo-rucci/ready-to-revolt-battle-to-find-new-funding-streams-for-sanfl-clubs-takes-old-path-to-power-and-crows/news-story/8a10d100c909f6b2180fa81fa1eec877

Fluffbag wrote:Can I ask what model do the majority of people on this forum want

1) existing
2) the previous one where afl players were divided amount the clubs
3) no afl players at all

If 3) would the SANFL be that then a senior competition or more like an under 23 comp,

My preference would be an AFL reserve competition and then the SANFL is an under 23 competition (as there may not be the money to keep older players from going to the bush). I agree that the competition unfair now but I also did not like afl players coming in and out of south in the old structure.

When the AFL ressies comp starts then it will be the best situation.

Bounce of the ball wrote:Agreed JK. However there seems to be a few that are so ANTI it they want to say it has a part to do with their or other clubs debt. Did SANFL supporters ABANDON their club when Woodville came in ? Did they ABANDON their club when Central came in ?

They are just doing their club and the competition a disservice . If their argument is accurate I assume them not staying away clubs would make a profit ? So in actual fact it's these people to blame from their logic. Hasn't there been clubs make a profit recently ?
To make it clear ...........I AM AGAINST THE AFL TEAMS IN OUR COMPETITION.

Mate, I didn't even abandon MY Club when they were forced to MERGE with Woodville, let alone abandon them when they were robbed of a heap of their Zone, due to Woodville fitting in between Port & the 'Port Natives' (WTFC), ultimately resulting in their slow demise over 3 decades.
Don't preach to me about 'loyalty' & 'sticking it out' - ONCE is enough FFS!
The Club I loved, the Club I played for, the Club I spent the 1st 20 yrs of my life supporting, DIED in 1990.
Ironically, due to the advent of the Crows & the fear of the further impact financially on WTFC & the SANFL as a whole.
(Go back & read the history of what happened in 1990 due to PAFC's lies & deceit & their forcing of Basheer's & Whicker's hands).
Despite this, I began supporting the 'new' entity. In 2006, finally embracing the 'One Club' - up until then, there was still West Torrens & Woodville Fans.

To be fair, I discussed the AFL Reserves issue face-to-face with Kurt Slaven, I wrote letters to the Club, I even stated (to Kurt) that should the Club put the decision (to vote Yes or No) to its MEMBERS & the Members came back 51% in favour of allowing the Cows & PAPs into the Comp, (although not happy with the decision) I would CONTINUE to support the Club, both financially & vocally/in person.
He & the other 'Leaders' didn't even allow the Members to vote. As a result, I left the Club - on principle.

Please don't preach to me about "... self-fulfilling prophecies", when those of us who could see through the lies peddled by Trigg & Chapman from the beginning, alerted everyone including the Media (who incidentally CHANGED their position, to 'tow the Party line') that there were huge holes in their figures. Sturt were in trouble, as were Westies. They voted Yes for selfish reasons, fair enough. Norwood 'flip-flopped' because they managed to negotiate a better deal for salary cap breaches - again, understandable to a degree. But WWTFC, NAFC & GFC had the chance to block the vote but their so-called 'Leaders' made decisions to 'feather their own personal nest', not in the interests of their Clubs or the Competition. By no means are they solely to blame, but because they were conned by the lies, here they are - in worse shape than when they began.

Yes, Clubs have contributed to their own demise in making some poor financial decisions - one of which was 'buying' the empty promises of increased revenue as a result of the AFL Teams entering the Competition. Even the 'pro' lobby must recognise that the 'Walker Match' (which has been used by so many as a positive example), what we all said at the time - it was a one off, unlikely to be repeated, & distorted the Crowd figures of 2014 (as was the Grand Final that year) - it, like the empty promises based on hypotheticals, was UNSUSTAINABLE.

It is very sad what is happening to out 150 yr old competition, even sadder what has happened to the WAFL.
The WAFL is now officially dead, it is the WAFL in NAME only.
We can still save the SANFL from the same demise by kicking them out. Granted, the damage may already be done.
But you can bet your life, that should the SANFL continue as it is, it WILL be dead in 5 yrs, just like our Western cousins.
Kicking the AFL Teams to the kurb, might breath life back into the SUPPORT of the Competition.

Regardless, due to the principle, I won't return to WWTFC - but with the AFL Scum kicked out, I WILL return to watching more SANFL Games & spending my money over the bars & through the Food stands.

Rant over... Cue the 'pro lobby'

LPH wrote:

Bounce of the ball wrote:Agreed JK. However there seems to be a few that are so ANTI it they want to say it has a part to do with their or other clubs debt. Did SANFL supporters ABANDON their club when Woodville came in ? Did they ABANDON their club when Central came in ?

They are just doing their club and the competition a disservice . If their argument is accurate I assume them not staying away clubs would make a profit ? So in actual fact it's these people to blame from their logic. Hasn't there been clubs make a profit recently ?
To make it clear ...........I AM AGAINST THE AFL TEAMS IN OUR COMPETITION.

Mate, I didn't even abandon MY Club when they were forced to MERGE with Woodville, let alone abandon them when they were robbed of a heap of their Zone, due to Woodville fitting in between Port & the 'Port Natives' (WTFC), ultimately resulting in their slow demise over 3 decades.
Don't preach to me about 'loyalty' & 'sticking it out' - ONCE is enough FFS!
The Club I loved, the Club I played for, the Club I spent the 1st 20 yrs of my life supporting, DIED in 1990.
Ironically, due to the advent of the Crows & the fear of the further impact financially on WTFC & the SANFL as a whole.
(Go back & read the history of what happened in 1990 due to PAFC's lies & deceit & their forcing of Basheer's & Whicker's hands).
Despite this, I began supporting the 'new' entity. In 2006, finally embracing the 'One Club' - up until then, there was still West Torrens & Woodville Fans.

To be fair, I discussed the AFL Reserves issue face-to-face with Kurt Slaven, I wrote letters to the Club, I even stated (to Kurt) that should the Club put the decision (to vote Yes or No) to its MEMBERS & the Members came back 51% in favour of allowing the Cows & PAPs into the Comp, (although not happy with the decision) I would CONTINUE to support the Club, both financially & vocally/in person.
He & the other 'Leaders' didn't even allow the Members to vote. As a result, I left the Club - on principle.

Please don't preach to me about "... self-fulfilling prophecies", when those of us who could see through the lies peddled by Trigg & Chapman from the beginning, alerted everyone including the Media (who incidentally CHANGED their position, to 'tow the Party line') that there were huge holes in their figures. Sturt were in trouble, as were Westies. They voted Yes for selfish reasons, fair enough. Norwood 'flip-flopped' because they managed to negotiate a better deal for salary cap breaches - again, understandable to a degree. But WWTFC, NAFC & GFC had the chance to block the vote but their so-called 'Leaders' made decisions to 'feather their own personal nest', not in the interests of their Clubs or the Competition. By no means are they solely to blame, but because they were conned by the lies, here they are - in worse shape than when they began.

Yes, Clubs have contributed to their own demise in making some poor financial decisions - one of which was 'buying' the empty promises of increased revenue as a result of the AFL Teams entering the Competition. Even the 'pro' lobby must recognise that the 'Walker Match' (which has been used by so many as a positive example), what we all said at the time - it was a one off, unlikely to be repeated, & distorted the Crowd figures of 2014 (as was the Grand Final that year) - it, like the empty promises based on hypotheticals, was UNSUSTAINABLE.

It is very sad what is happening to out 150 yr old competition, even sadder what has happened to the WAFL.
The WAFL is now officially dead, it is the WAFL in NAME only.
We can still save the SANFL from the same demise by kicking them out. Granted, the damage may already be done.
But you can bet your life, that should the SANFL continue as it is, it WILL be dead in 5 yrs, just like our Western cousins.
Kicking the AFL Teams to the kurb, might breath life back into the SUPPORT of the Competition.

Regardless, due to the principle, I won't return to WWTFC - but with the AFL Scum kicked out, I WILL return to watching more SANFL Games & spending my money over the bars & through the Food stands.

Rant over... Cue the 'pro lobby'

Well said sir.
I find it comical that some AFL types areas blaming the old SANFL fans who don't support it anymore. I mean, if a customer says he will no longer purchase a product because he doesn't like changes made to it, doesn't it then reek stupidity to then blame those customers for standing by their decision? We are now being told what we have to like and being held accountable for not liking it.

Oh for god sake. LPH - Didn't you follow South last year ? I might have that wrong as their certainly are some interesting Eagles supporters.

I never preached anything about " self fulfilling prophecies "

Go back and READ my comments before you shoot your ill informed mouth off.

No, get your FACTS right - that was a one off - 2014.
I became a member of South (in respect to them voting NO).
You Sir, need to READ...
Read the comments regarding "... not the same" & the like.

Last year 2015 - I went to a number of 'neutral' games, including Finals.
I did not go to the Grand Final.

Resorting to abuse?
That is the 'pro' way, isn't it?