The never ending No AFL in the SANFL whinge thread

[UK Fan]

The thought by most AFL supporters in this state with little to no interest in the SANFL, that the SANFL fans are all stuck in the competitions glory days is miles off the mark. We all understand we play 2nd fiddle (with daylight in between) to big brother, and that's fine, we just want our own competition to be fair and equitable, and thriving at a lower level, and dont see it as an unreasonable wish. We're happy to be the breeding ground for players talented enough to progress to AFL, although we don't want the competition to be exclusively for that purpose. We're happy to have those that fell out of the AFL because they generally help with the standard at our level. But the competition to the genuine SANFL fans requires a level playing field to be meaningful to supporters, many of whom have had multiple generations of their family involved with their club.

We don't expect our games on primetime TV, we don't expect multiple pages in the Advertiser, we don't expect the radio stations to discuss the competition for hours on end. We realise our place in the pecking order.

If the second comment is true, which I believe it is, then the first can't occur, IMHO. To truly thrive the competition does need greater exposure in print, the airwaves and the mouse clicks, it no longer receives that ( yes, yes, I know why ).

Forget the competition thriving once more, I don't think the football market has the dollars to support the AFL with it's greater exposure and a thriving SANFL. The best the SANFL can hope for is a return to a level playing field, without the AFL reserves sides, but without the advent of a national AFL reserves competition ( which I think most of us agree isn't likely in the short term, especially with the AFLW taking off and taking up AFL $$'s ) then what it is at the moment, is what it is and where it sits in the market place will remain the same. Out of the limelight, not thriving.

*Edit* When I say "football market place" I refer to the corporate dollar.

Its called a niche market. SANFL has been it since 1991 practically.

And since 1991 the league was growing in this market.

Until....

[therisingblues]

The thought by most AFL supporters in this state with little to no interest in the SANFL, that the SANFL fans are all stuck in the competitions glory days is miles off the mark. We all understand we play 2nd fiddle (with daylight in between) to big brother, and that's fine, we just want our own competition to be fair and equitable, and thriving at a lower level, and dont see it as an unreasonable wish. We're happy to be the breeding ground for players talented enough to progress to AFL, although we don't want the competition to be exclusively for that purpose. We're happy to have those that fell out of the AFL because they generally help with the standard at our level. But the competition to the genuine SANFL fans requires a level playing field to be meaningful to supporters, many of whom have had multiple generations of their family involved with their club.

We don't expect our games on primetime TV, we don't expect multiple pages in the Advertiser, we don't expect the radio stations to discuss the competition for hours on end. We realise our place in the pecking order.

If the second comment is true, which I believe it is, then the first can't occur, IMHO. To truly thrive the competition does need greater exposure in print, the airwaves and the mouse clicks, it no longer receives that ( yes, yes, I know why ).

Forget the competition thriving once more, I don't think the football market has the dollars to support the AFL with it's greater exposure and a thriving SANFL. The best the SANFL can hope for is a return to a level playing field, without the AFL reserves sides, but without the advent of a national AFL reserves competition ( which I think most of us agree isn't likely in the short term, especially with the AFLW taking off and taking up AFL $$'s ) then what it is at the moment, is what it is and where it sits in the market place will remain the same. Out of the limelight, not thriving.

*Edit* When I say "football market place" I refer to the corporate dollar.

The word "thriving" is open to interpretation.
I would say that the SANFL was thriving before the reserves joined. Clearly the strongest local league in Australia, we would often pull minor round crowds larger than the cellar dwellers of the AFL. Our Grand Final regularly drew crowds around 30,000, even though we had the same bloody team in it for a decade. Discussion on this board was very fiery, one only need say that another side was shit and we would spend pages arguing about the issue.
If these are not all signs of a "thriving" comp for you then you have a different interpretation of the word to me.
JK's post hit the nail on the head.

[Booney]

The problems we're faced with today aren't entirely due to the AFL clubs existence in the competition either - The biggest issue imho was/is the financial health of the clubs.

This, Trb, this.

In your summation the competition was thriving pre-AFL ,were Sturt, Glenelg and West really "thriving" pre AFL?

If the clubs are to become financially stable once more ( read "thrive ) then I'm not sure the corporate dollar is there. The AFL, along with other sporting codes, have taken sponsors away from the SANFL, times are tough for small/medium business so not all have the sponsorship dollars in their marketing budget as they once did and clubs are reluctant to simply take from the communities ( read pokies ) as they once were, the emphasis on building bonds with the communities and families, not tearing them a part.

Thrive is open to interpretation, and each interpretation can have many aspects. Thrive, IMO, is a very optimistic ideal for the SANFL going forward.

[therisingblues]

I think there are a few struggling AFL clubs also Booney, yet the competition continues to thrive.
Speaking purely from a Sturt point of view, we were being mis-managed prior to the reserves entry. Financially we are thriving now, but we have some very good people at the helm who were not there just a few short years back.
Of course clubs need to be financial, but the struggle for existence has been an ongoing theme in most football leagues around the world for many years, yet the competitions they are part of continue to thrive. Take any number of European soccer competitions as an example.

[morell]

It’s a well written post JK and the sentiments are fine, however...

We all understand we play 2nd fiddle (with daylight in between) to big brother, and that's fine, we just want our own competition to be fair and equitable, and thriving at a lower level, and dont see it as an unreasonable wish.

Agreed and fine, but with playing second fiddle comes compromise and understanding that decisions that might be detrimental to the SANFL but beneficial to the AFL have to be made for football to keep being advanced in this state. That's where we get into trouble.

AFL reserves playing in the SANFL might indeed suck for the SANFL and its 10k devoted supporters, but the 600k AFL supporters just want their clubs to be at the bleeding edge of competitiveness... so yeah, it's not great for the comp. but ...

Bad luck! The priority has to be the AFL to the betterment of the sport for really obvious and glaring reasons.

This is when the resentment and bitterness comes in. Rather than seeing the writing on the wall, showing some pragmatism and some positivity we get 400 ******* pages of complaints and sooks. Talk of boycotts and no longer supporting their clubs (like that makes sense). Constant pot shots at the AFL clubs who are only trying to remain competitive.

So whilst you might all understand that you're second fiddle at a logical level, at an emotional level you're not ready to deal with the consequences. Hence the notion of being stuck in the glories of yesteryear.

We're happy to be the breeding ground for players talented enough to progress to AFL, although we don't want the competition to be exclusively for that purpose.

Bad luck. That's the SANFL's role in the modern landscape of SA footy.

Although I would like to see a restructure in that space too – eg SANFL junior program merged with the AdFL metro junior programs.

We're happy to have those that fell out of the AFL because they generally help with the standard at our level. But the competition to the genuine SANFL fans requires a level playing field to be meaningful to supporters, many of whom have had multiple generations of their family involved with their club.

Understand. Time to move on. Adapt or die!

We don't expect our games on primetime TV, we don't expect multiple pages in the Advertiser, we don't expect the radio stations to discuss the competition for hours on end. We realise our place in the pecking order.

Perhaps you do, but not the realities of that place in the pecking order.

The problems we're faced with today aren't entirely due to the AFL clubs existence in the competition either - The biggest issue imho was/is the financial health of the clubs.

Totally agree. It’s a multifaceted and wide ranging problem, the AFL Reserves, as I stated numerous times, is honestly one of the minor ones.

Plot out crowds, memberships and turnover. The SANFL was on the slide before even the Crows came in.

So whilst we love to reminisce about the glory years, we'd be more than happy if the comp resembled what it did 5 or 10 years ago (with or without local AFL listed players).

I don't believe there's a simple fix, just putting it out there that what we want, isn't what a lot of people make it out to be,

I am sure you would all like that and I agree that AFL players in the SANFL isn’t ideal

Until that happens, I am sorry, but IMO the SANFL have much much bigger fish to fry at a really broad, macro and strategic level.

[JK]

Sort of agree and disagree in parts. I don't think it should be a case of the SANFL existing just to further football at the highest level, but again, without the required financial resource, I'm not sure anything can be done to change that.

This topic does my head (and heart in), so will try and leave it alone for a bit now ... Just when we were getting so close to solving it

[morell]

No not just at highest level but as a conduit and pathway from the grassroots to the highest level.

This is why I think the SANFL should completely rebrand itself (what with the N anyway) and start talks with Mr Kernahan at the AdFL. There are two very similarly designed, almost identically structured leagues and competitions running in parallel that are cannibalising eachother.

Would solve a multitude of problems IMO.

[JK]

No not just at highest level but as a conduit and pathway from the grassroots to the highest level.

This is why I think the SANFL should completely rebrand itself (what with the N anyway) and start talks with Mr Kernahan at the AdFL. There are two very similarly designed, almost identically structured leagues and competitions running in parallel that are cannibalising eachother.

Would solve a multitude of problems IMO.

Wouldn't mind at all if that option was at least explored

[human_torpedo]

No not just at highest level but as a conduit and pathway from the grassroots to the highest level.

This is why I think the SANFL should completely rebrand itself (what with the N anyway) and start talks with Mr Kernahan at the AdFL. There are two very similarly designed, almost identically structured leagues and competitions running in parallel that are cannibalising eachother.

Would solve a multitude of problems IMO.

Wouldn't mind at all if that option was at least explored

I can already see it now.. a 'NO SANFL IN THE C9AFL' thread

[JK]

No not just at highest level but as a conduit and pathway from the grassroots to the highest level.

This is why I think the SANFL should completely rebrand itself (what with the N anyway) and start talks with Mr Kernahan at the AdFL. There are two very similarly designed, almost identically structured leagues and competitions running in parallel that are cannibalising eachother.

Would solve a multitude of problems IMO.

Wouldn't mind at all if that option was at least explored

I can already see it now.. a 'NO SANFL IN THE C9AFL' thread

Haha, yep, had a similar thought

[therisingblues]

It’s a well written post JK and the sentiments are fine, however...

We all understand we play 2nd fiddle (with daylight in between) to big brother, and that's fine, we just want our own competition to be fair and equitable, and thriving at a lower level, and dont see it as an unreasonable wish.

Agreed and fine, but with playing second fiddle comes compromise and understanding that decisions that might be detrimental to the SANFL but beneficial to the AFL have to be made for football to keep being advanced in this state. That's where we get into trouble.

AFL reserves playing in the SANFL might indeed suck for the SANFL and its 10k devoted supporters, but the 600k AFL supporters just want their clubs to be at the bleeding edge of competitiveness... so yeah, it's not great for the comp. but ...

Bad luck! The priority has to be the AFL to the betterment of the sport for really obvious and glaring reasons.

This is when the resentment and bitterness comes in. Rather than seeing the writing on the wall, showing some pragmatism and some positivity we get 400 ******* pages of complaints and sooks. Talk of boycotts and no longer supporting their clubs (like that makes sense). Constant pot shots at the AFL clubs who are only trying to remain competitive.

So whilst you might all understand that you're second fiddle at a logical level, at an emotional level you're not ready to deal with the consequences. Hence the notion of being stuck in the glories of yesteryear.

Cold not read the rest of your post after reading this.
Do you understand that a practice league is next to meaningless on a competitive level?
We might get excited about winning a practice game if it is preparation for the real thing. But the reserves inclusion makes the whole league a practice league.
Get it?

[morell]

Nah that has completely escaped me I've only addressed it like 15 times.

I am sorry but it all boils down to the fact that that AFL is was and always will be the priority. So if something benefits the AFL but disadvantages the SANFL - so be it, because ultimately in SA, 600,000 would prioritise the Crows and Power being as competitive as possible vs probably 10k wanting the SANFL to be a perfect even and clean second tier comp instead.

It's where you're at. The SANFL and the fans need to adapt and either make the most of it or completely restructure/rebrand and start from fresh.

[Dutchy]

but with playing second fiddle comes compromise and understanding that decisions that might be detrimental to the SANFL but beneficial to the AFL have to be made for football to keep being advanced in this state. That's where we get into trouble.

AFL reserves playing in the SANFL might indeed suck for the SANFL and its 10k devoted supporters, but the 600k AFL supporters just want their clubs to be at the bleeding edge of competitiveness... so yeah, it's not great for the comp. but ...

Bad luck! The priority has to be the AFL to the betterment of the sport for really obvious and glaring reasons.

Crows/Port = 3 flags under the previous structure

Under the current structure =

[morell]

You're not going to see the benefits of this structure at AFL level until the players drafted post 2014 are playing regular AFL footy.

The development of Marshall, for example. is blatantly and obviously better with Port being able to play him where we want and how we want, instead of being stuck at Centre Half back for Sturts reserves or something.

That and lets be honest, one of the Crows flags was an out and out fluke and the other was lucky at best.

[Dutchy]

You're not going to see the benefits of this structure at AFL level until the players drafted post 2014 are playing regular AFL footy.

The development of Marshall, for example. is blatantly and obviously better with Port being able to play him where we want and how we want, instead of being stuck at Centre Half back for the Sturt reserves or something.

What a load of horse shit

[morell]

Nah, its kind of inarguable, actually. The AFL Reserves and One Club stuff happened in 2014. It's going to take a little while to see the young players develop under that system.

You want a flag within the next year or so as evidence that it's better? That's an argument of monumentally stupid proportions. You should submit your keyboard license and hand over the admin of safooty for putting forward such a proposition.

[tipper]

because ultimately in SA, 600,000 would prioritise the Crows and Power being as competitive as possible vs probably 10k wanting the SANFL to be a perfect even and clean second tier comp instead.

im sorry, citation please for this number you have plucked out of your arse. 600k people support the crows and power??

i can cite umpteen sources that show you just made that up.......

that and your 10k for the sanfl is deliberately deflated. there would be more than that many in members alone wouldnt there? let alone when including non member supposters

but once again, just keep quoting the numbers that support your crap

[morell]

because ultimately in SA, 600,000 would prioritise the Crows and Power being as competitive as possible vs probably 10k wanting the SANFL to be a perfect even and clean second tier comp instead.

im sorry, citation please for this number you have plucked out of your arse. 600k people support the crows and power??

i can cite umpteen sources that show you just made that up.......

that and your 10k for the sanfl is deliberately deflated. there would be more than that many in members alone wouldnt there? let alone when including non member supposters

but once again, just keep quoting the numbers that support your crap

http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/finding-1807-201304260515

and that was in 2012! and I only counted Adelaide! and it only counts people aged 14+!

You're living in an echo chamber.

Next.

[Psyber]

It is having a gradual effect on me.
I've only become aware this subtle psychological drift during this year.

Prior to the reserves entering the SANFL competition I took an active interest in all of it, and I only now realise I've been gradually losing interest since the devaluation of the SANFL. I no longer even look up Norwood's team as soon as it is released and sometimes don't bother to check the scores until I realise the match was played the day before I noticed.

At AFL level, I still support the Power team in principle against the Melbourne teams though not always against others, and often read something while watching the match on TV. Sometimes I don't even watch it if I have something more interesting to go to. The Crows I usually watch with a little more interest, but I've been overlooking their team placing releases too, and occasionally skipped watching a televised match to go out.

An important other factor may have been the advent of the new lady in my life leading me into other interests like theatre, yet she is a Power supporter, was introduced to me by another Power supporter, and there is her brother whom I spotted on TV sitting among the other SA pollies with a Power scarf around his neck in Shanghai.

[Spargo]

http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/finding-1807-201304260515

Brisbane Lions 800k +
Yeah, I'll take that as gospel...