SA Footy

The heading sounds worse than it is, but now its got your attention, got a call from dad today who was chatting with a father of a young north footballer who was saying that a lot of players and parents of players in the 17's and 19's (who i guess would be pushing for ressies possies this year) were getting pissed off with 'Jarman' (and board i guess) for recruiting too many players and not going with the youth. I know this guys son and he will be looking to play ressies this year but if not good enough, will be shipped off to the local ammo club. His dad also mentioned some names that have either played league who were still young or on the brink of getting a league game who were feeling left out. I know these guys too and I couldnt see them leave north but if greater opportunities presented themselves you never know. However, i dont think this is a problem just with north and that it can happen anywhere.

I guess this thing is bound to happen when you have very good young sides with positions at a premium plus with additions to bolster the league side, spots above you get further and further away.

Not having a go, but thought it would be a good discussion topic.

My view is that its impossible to avoid this and it weens out the lesser players, but 1 or 2 can get thru the radar and go on to be something at other clubs and it could be seen that their former club should have done more to keep them. Its a fine line to be able to foster the youth as well as bring in the experience needed for premiership success.

Thoughts?

It's funny Jimmy because I had pretty much exactly the same conversation with an ex North official a month or so ago. Ex as is left at end of 2005. This guy was involved at the junior level more so but is now at an amateur club. He basically said some of the old players who had sons involved at junior level were very pissed off with Jarman for cutting a number of junior players so quickly and, in his words, trying to "buy a flag". He thought the approach taken was the wrong one and would backfire.
But as you rightly point out most clubs go through this process because the maths simply don't work out, when you consider the number who play u19s and u17s who might vie for a senior squad berth. The vast majority end up going elsewhere. Also, winning junior flags is normally a poor indicator of future league success, as much as competitive junior teams are important.
The trick is to give them a pathway to senior level, but the reality is that you need to recruit if you want to be a flag contender at league level. There must be a balance struck.

What's wrong with them "raising the bar"? If they are not getting selected, work harder on the track. Improve your defiencies. If you knock on the door & it won't open, knock harder. And if it still won't open, then knock it down. These kids will have to prove to Jars, that they have what it takes to play league football. The days of an easy ride at North are over, if you want a spot, earn it. Yes, there'll be some kids disappointed, but I'd be more disappointed if our depth at the club didn't improve- let's face it, the percentage of under age players the don't make it to league football are very high. U17's- 9 teams x 25 players = 225. U19's- 9 teams x 25 players = 225. Do the maths, there are gonna be a lot of disappointed footballers (I believe my figures are conservative too)

As you said happens at all club. Centrals went through a similar thing, at the end of the day not all players are able to move through the under 19's to the reserves. While they have a number of recruits the good junior players will come through, no doubt there will be plenty of clubs hanging around for any leaft over players.

Its a big test for Jarmen to not only gel the team together but also long time supporters of the club who might have seen family or family friends put out a bit by the recruiting drive. Keep in mind North have had a few players leave from last year from their best 42 like Cook, Grocke. Toia, Shee, Wise, Roe, Mumford, Staples ect. Its fair to say they have replaced these guys with better players though.

As you've said James, would be a very difficult juggling act at all clubs ... Should a club achieve the ultimate success, which surely is the senior premiership more than once over a period of time, then sadly you would have to say it's been worthwhile for certain players to have left the club to try elsewhere ..

Centrals would have lost several fringe players who were doggies through and through over the last 5 or 6 years, but surely the club cannot put them before their objectives of premiership success?

Would be nice to see the day where loyal players can receive decent/reasonable dollars for reserves matches so's they aren't lost to amateur competitions ... Often off-field (and onfield in developing others) these players form part of the core fabric of the playing list ...

SANFL wrote:WEST END CLUB OF THE YEAR
12. SANFL Club
Club who reaches 70% local & country content in the League side over the whole year. - 1 point
80% over the whole year – Bonus additional 1 point

SANFL wrote:SANFL Club (1+1pt):
North
Norwood (2pts)

Every club has unhappy parents who perceive their kids to be better than they actually are, going on the SANFL's own figures there'd be likely to be Dads at 7 other clubs who would be a lot more concerned. Its funny how these parents are all ringing people at other clubs when its a myth.
It wasn't a myth in our last year under Hart when I had players parents ringing me, none since then.
Just for the record Ronnie, our board has had the same members for the entire time Jarman has been there, they were even there for quite a years during the Hart and McDermott times. Any ex official (if true, which I'd doub) wouldn't have probably been there for at least 7 years and wouldn't have a clue or any more credibility than the local deli operator. Nice try though.

I can't see this getting any worse at North having had more outs than ins, perhaps North will go from No 2 in the SANFL to No 1 in 2006?

The most important thing is I've never seen players as happy as those under Jarman, the spirity and unity of the club at the moment is unprecedented, players that are told they're not good enough are always going to be unhappy.

Just for the record I've chatted to a couple of parents who have had their children move, there was no resentment towards North, they were just concerned that some of the fans might not be impressed with the Players looking to try their trade at the highest level elsewhere, I assured them they would not, well not by me anyway, good luck to them.

As Ive consistently maintained on these forums when the issue has come up... North ARE trying to buy a premiership this year and it WONT work! Doesnt matter how good the personnel is they're recruiting - no substitute for development of qulaity youth for long term club success. But time will tell!

sus wrote:As Ive consistently maintained on these forums when the issue has come up... North ARE trying to buy a premiership this year and it WONT work! Doesnt matter how good the personnel is they're recruiting - no substitute for development of qulaity youth for long term club success. But time will tell!

Yes, ask the Bays about this, they're highly skilled at not recruiting...

sus wrote:As Ive consistently maintained on these forums when the issue has come up... North ARE trying to buy a premiership this year and it WONT work! Doesnt matter how good the personnel is they're recruiting - no substitute for development of qulaity youth for long term club success. But time will tell!

Simple mathetmatics people, how hard is it to understand facts?
North promoted the 2nd most people from their country and local zone of any club last year according to SANFL figures (note heresay, not jealousy, not shitstirring, but FACT).
There is more outs than ins for 2006 so at the very least this will continue if not improve in 2006.
Very simple mathematics.

10 players that have played league footy are no longer with the club.
9 players have been recruited, even assuming that everyone walks into the league side (which wont happen) its still simple mathematics.

Also just for the record there's 14 underage players currently training with the senior squad, keep an eye on Shane Edwards, this kid will be the next young gun in the SANFL IMHO.

ca wrote:
Its a big test for Jarmen

I like it CA, a plural for Andrew and Darren!

Wedgie wrote:10 players that have played league footy are no longer with the club.
9 players have been recruited, even assuming that everyone walks into the league side (which wont happen) its still simple mathematics.

This statement is correct. If you just talk numbers (and that is the issue here) north have lost about 10 players i think and recurited say 9 players (good players mind you). So there is the same amount of room in the senior squad as there was last year.

If your debating that they should have only say recuirted 5 or 6 players and left the other spots open, well perhaps that something you can talk about. But if you want to talk about a team ignoring juniors, then heck why not head to where its really bad....South...

Exactly stan.
I'd be more concerned as a fan of several other clubs (5-6 IMHO) around town who are recruiting very average players and putting them in the senior squad at their juniors expense, we got caught in that trap a few years ago under Hart but thankfully its only happening elsewhere now. That's when parents/players REALLY get upset on mass and when supporters of those clubs should be concerned, I've seen it happen.

PS We've actually lost 14 from our senior squad but only 10 of those played league footy last year hence why I used 10.

ca wrote:As you said happens at all club. Centrals went through a similar thing, at the end of the day not all players are able to move through the under 19's to the reserves. While they have a number of recruits the good junior players will come through, no doubt there will be plenty of clubs hanging around for any leaft over players.

Its a big test for Jarmen to not only gel the team together but also long time supporters of the club who might have seen family or family friends put out a bit by the recruiting drive. Keep in mind North have had a few players leave from last year from their best 42 like Cook, Grocke. Toia, Shee, Wise, Roe, Mumford, Staples ect. Its fair to say they have replaced these guys with better players though.

The way I see it the doggies resurgence began when it went to a youth policy about 10 years ago. While there have been recruits they have mainly been low profile players to fill a gap in the team.

The person I spoke to Wedgie had never been a Board member, and I never stated that he had been a Board member. But he was involved in an official capacity at the club. Nice try though.

Ronnie wrote:The person I spoke to Wedgie had never been a Board member, and I never stated that he had been a Board member. But he was involved in an official capacity at the club. Nice try though.

Sorry Ronnie, my mistake, that'll teach me to skim read articles before replying to them.


I'm off to the shop to buy some humble pie.

PS Past officials quite often have more gripes just for gripes sake than disgruntled parents!

Wedgie wrote:

Ronnie wrote:The person I spoke to Wedgie had never been a Board member, and I never stated that he had been a Board member. But he was involved in an official capacity at the club. Nice try though.

Sorry Ronnie, my mistake, that'll teach me to skim read articles before replying to them.


I'm off to the shop to buy some humble pie.

Malcolm Ellis?

Punk Rooster wrote:Malcolm Ellis?

lol, speaking of Malcolm, have a look at the newest registered user on doubleblue.org
I hope he doesn't lose it like he did on the Roost previously.

Wedgie wrote:

Ronnie wrote:The person I spoke to Wedgie had never been a Board member, and I never stated that he had been a Board member. But he was involved in an official capacity at the club. Nice try though.

Sorry Ronnie, my mistake, that'll teach me to skim read articles before replying to them.


I'm off to the shop to buy some humble pie.

PS Past officials quite often have more gripes just for gripes sake than disgruntled parents!

North unfortunately had a big clean out of so called''officials'' most were dead wood & had been around since my avatar was in shorts, none of them from memory took the hint & went gracefully, I'd say one of them would be Ronnies little mate.
I would concur that Jimmy would be right on the money with his phone source's accomodation overlooking the ''Grand North''

14 of Centrals last year premiership side came through the junior program, I have no issue with clubs recruiting top level footballers who end up playing quality league footy week end week out, but clubs who continue to recruit players who end up fringe / reserve players, all this does is create dead wood at your club and stops the juniors pushing through.

Recruiting is strategic, clubs should only recruit players for certain positions where they feel there is no depth of quality juniors coming through to potentially feel that particular role........

Maybe an import rule will solve some of these issues

sydney-dog wrote:14 of Centrals last year premiership side came through the junior program, I have no issue with clubs recruiting top level footballers who end up playing quality league footy week end week out, but clubs who continue to recruit players who end up fringe / reserve players, all this does is create dead wood at your club and stops the juniors pushing through.

Recruiting is strategic, clubs should only recruit players for certain positions where they feel there is no depth of quality juniors coming through to potentially feel that particular role........

Maybe an import rule will solve some of these issues

I would be totally opposed to an import rule. Let clubs sink or swim by their own decisions.

If a junior footballer is any good he will make it anyway. I don't want players playing who arn't ready just for the sake of playing juniors.