SA Footy

For other Football Historians, Stats Keepers and SANFL lovers, the following is a suggestion for you to consider:

After checking some facts with SANFL HQ, it seems that for technical and historical accuracy, records for Port Adelaide need to be broken up as such. Port People can then put them back together to suit their needs.

When the vote for the United Port Adelaide went through and Port Magpies SANFL lost its directors vote and united with the Port Adelaide (POWER) arm of the club it became a new entity although it continued and still continues under the brand Port Adelaide Magpies.

Technically this is a new division of Port Adelaide (and Port are not advertising this). The Port competing in 2014 season is now 3 years old with revised conditions; conditions that will be revised again in 2015 with loss of zones. Hence, the Current Port Adelaide Magpie Stats go from 2011-

Therefore, we need to consider re-allocating these player stats for the past two seasons accordingly.

One could therefore attribute stats as follows:

Port Adelaide (Magpies) 1870-2010 - My stats for my database record as Port Adelaide
Port Magpies (SANFL) 2011- My Stats record as Port Magpies
Port Adelaide (Power AFL) 1996 My Stats record as Port Power

As I said, those worried about records could then tie the players caught in the cross-over together OR in separate categories next to each other with a Port Adelaide Senior Games Total.....

The technical names are on the left, my use of more common names for easy differentiation on the database are on the right

REALLY? Clearly with all this time on your hands you decided to focus on Port Adelaide, instead of devising a way for your own club, West Adelaide to better keep track of its funds.

beenreal, of course you'd take this as a slight against the great Port Adelaide name.
The man is a historian. The minutiae of fact is important to him.
His work is important to ALL of us who care about football in this state - whether it is the SANFL, the AFL or Port Adelaide in its variations.
It tells us where we've come from and how we've got to where we are.
Go find someone else to troll.

How would you know what he does and doesn't do for West Adelaide?

Mark_Beswick wrote:One could therefore attribute stats as follows:

Port Adelaide (Magpies) 1870-2010 - My stats for my database record as Port Adelaide
Port Magpies (SANFL) 2011- My Stats record as Port Magpies
Port Adelaide (Power AFL) 1996 My Stats record as Port Power

Surely Mark you would make the distinction between 2013 and 2014, and not 2010 and 2011? Nothing football-wise changed from 2010-2011. Wouldn't you record the games played as a reserves team separately to games played this year?

I would have thought it would be something like:
Port Adelaide Football Club 1870-1995
Port Adelaide Magpies Football Club 1996-2013
Port Adelaide Football Club (SANFL) 2014-
Port Adelaide Football Club (AFL) 1996-

Dogwatcher wrote:beenreal, of course you'd take this as a slight against the great Port Adelaide name.
The man is a historian. The minutiae of fact is important to him.
His work is important to ALL of us who care about football in this state - whether it is the SANFL, the AFL or Port Adelaide in its variations.
It tells us where we've come from and how we've got to where we are.
Go find someone else to troll.

How would you know what he does and doesn't do for West Adelaide?

What the man does or does not do for West Adelaide is his concern, not mine.

I comment on someone else writing about MY CLUB and I'm the Troll? So very typical of this backward Forum.

Call it Historical revisionism all you like. I call it muckraking

beenreal wrote: What the man does or does not do for West Adelaide is his concern, not mine.

I comment on someone else writing about MY CLUB and I'm the Troll? So very typical of this backward Forum.

Call it Historical revisionism all you like. I call it muckraking

beenreal wrote:REALLY? Clearly with all this time on your hands you decided to focus on Port Adelaide, instead of devising a way for your own club, West Adelaide to better keep track of its funds.

In bold is where you a) troll and b) suggest other things he should be doing for West Adelaide, so clearly you think it is your business.

He's not muckraking - just as protocols needed to be established for WWT after their merger, they need to be established for Port Adelaide and the Magpies' place as the PAFC's first and then second priority.

But, hey, you'll pick a fight out of anything.

Port Adelaide Football Club SANFL 1870 >

Port Adelaide Football Club AFL 1997 >

No need to thank me, Mark.

This is gunna be fun!! Thanks Mark.

Mark has it 100% right, the Port Adelaide Football Club only changed their name in 1996 so a new franchise could use it, proven in legal documents and by the fact players who stayed with the Magpies didn't need to sign new contracts where those who went from the old Port Adelaide Football Club to the new franchise did.The club in the SANFL was the same until the franchise who took over their name also took over their club.
Factual as usual Mark, keep up the good work. Just a shame some choose to ignore facts as it doesn't suit them.

I'll face a similar issue compiling the head to head stats for the SANFL & media next year.

Obviously the Crows games are all new.

However should there be a distinction between the Magpies record pre AFL reserves and what they do from 2014 onwards
or because it is the same jumper & name it just keeps rolling on without change.


Slight tangent but the history protocol that always amazed me was the merger of Brisbane Bears & Fiztroy.

Fitzroy's records are kept separate but the Bears are included in the Brisbane Lions.

Probably the indication that it was a takeover rather than true merger.

Booney wrote:Port Adelaide Football Club SANFL 1870 >

Port Adelaide Football Club AFL 1997 >

No need to thank me, Mark.

Port Adelaide Football Club (competing in SANFL until 1996 and in AFL from 1997) 1870 > ?

-------------------------------

Port Adelaide Magpies Football Club (SANFL) 1997 > 2010
Port Adelaide Football Club (SANFL) 2011 > 2013
Port Adelaide Football Club Reserves (SANFL) 2014 > ?

There has to be a distinction between 2013 and 2014.

.

How many clubs would the Port Magpies have a positive win/loss record against then?
Could only be South, Sturt and Glenelg that they even come close to.

Maybe you could do an updated premierships tally of just the current clubs Mark?

Wedgie wrote:Mark has it 100% right, the Port Adelaide Football Club only changed their name in 1996 so a new franchise could use it, proven in legal documents and by the fact players who stayed with the Magpies didn't need to sign new contracts where those who went from the old Port Adelaide Football Club to the new franchise did.The club in the SANFL was the same until the franchise who took over their name also took over their club.
Factual as usual Mark, keep up the good work. Just a shame some choose to ignore facts as it doesn't suit them.

I've had this argument with Cornesy, who relies on technicalities and Legalities to support his side. Relying on legalities in this case renders his argument invalid. Legal arguments are bound by precedent and in this case of a club moving to another competition, there is none.

The next principal in a Judges arsenal would then be "Substance over Form", primarily an accounting term but basically means, "what was meant to happen, happened" by whatever means necessary. In this case, Port Adelaide moved from the SANFL to the AFL. New numbers, codes, terminologies do not mean new club. But it does now mean that Port Adelaide is now the Legal precedent.

beenreal wrote:

Wedgie wrote:Mark has it 100% right, the Port Adelaide Football Club only changed their name in 1996 so a new franchise could use it, proven in legal documents and by the fact players who stayed with the Magpies didn't need to sign new contracts where those who went from the old Port Adelaide Football Club to the new franchise did.The club in the SANFL was the same until the franchise who took over their name also took over their club.
Factual as usual Mark, keep up the good work. Just a shame some choose to ignore facts as it doesn't suit them.

I've had this argument with Cornesy, who relies on technicalities and Legalities to support his side. Relying on legalities in this case renders his argument invalid. Legal arguments are bound by precedent and in this case of a club moving to another competition, there is none.

The next principal in a Judges arsenal would then be "Substance over Form", primarily an accounting term but basically means, "what was meant to happen, happened" by whatever means necessary. In this case, Port Adelaide moved from the SANFL to the AFL. New numbers, codes, terminologies do not mean new club. But it does now mean that Port Adelaide is now the Legal precedent.

No need to argue with me, I preferred it when I ignorantly thought the Port Adelaide Football Club had moved to the AFL as I could put shit on my Port mates telling them my SANFL club had more SANFL premierships then theirs and my AFL club had more AFL premierships than theirs!
Alas I was proven wrong when the facts were pointed out to me and I conceded. Mind you now since the Power franchise took over the original PAFC to field their own side I can at least argue that again. Just a shame that the club that won 36 odd premierships in the SANFL is no more in any shape or form. No precedents needed, facts are facts.
I do like your cute little prose though, I might shoot someone and then in court tell the judge that no precedent has been set with someone named Wedgie shooting anyone therefore it did not happen.

Aerie wrote:There has to be a distinction between 2013 and 2014.

Exactly.

So based on all this South would now be included in the BIG 4 based on premiership success!

Panther Pack wrote:So based on all this South would now be included in the BIG 4 based on premiership success!

If the records cease as of 1899, then definitely, no doubt

List of Premierships

Norwood 29
North 13
Sturt 13
South 11
Central 9
West 8
Glenelg 4
WWT 3

New Big 4 in bold