North and the AFL

[Sojourner]

No doubt plenty of people have read this in the Advertiser, here is the article from the Adelaide now site.

Frustration spilling article: comment June 27, 2007 02:15am

What North Adelaide says in its editorial on sharing players with the Crows and Power:

* Frustrated by "not being aware of availability or being directed as to how much game time a specific player is allowed in a given game".

Also from:

* Players flying interstate as emergencies with some allowed to return the following day to play and some not. In a specific case it has meant that the player has turned up on match day without having trained with the club - hardly an ideal situation.

* Players being made available but only allowed to play half a game in the reserves. One would think a full-time professional footballer, if declared fit, would certainly be up to SANFL league standard.

* Late notice of availability. It is quite mystifying that a professional AFL club with full-time staff can only notify an SANFL club of player availability by 5pm to 5.30pm on a Thursday prior to a game.

* It must be remembered that (North coach) Andrew Jarman is as keen to win a game as (Crows coach) Neil Craig or (Power mentor) Mark Williams. We acknowledge that the Crows and the Power just want to win - so do we!

* IT is difficult for all parties - clubs, coaches and players - with communication the only solution

[BPBRB]

I get annoyed about how only selective bits and pieces from overall article are put on the the Adelaide Now website site compared to the actual full article/story as it appears in print (this includes game reviews as well).

Perhaps a copy of the entire article that appears in the paper which to Rucci's credit gives a more balanced view of North's frustrations (as noted in the statement on North's website) might be more applicable if people are to comment on the NAFC stance re this matter?

[JK]

I'd imagine North are probably the only ones with the guts to air the concerns that all clubs share, while most others remain privately annoyed but publicly silent, good on them for sharing their thoughts with their members/supporters.

[am Bays]

Well Glenelg got bitten when it privately told an AFL franchise a certain player would not be guaranteed an exclusive position in the forward line, he would have to earn it, and he went elsewhere....

You can possible understand our reluctance to speak publically on the matter.

The boy has been burning with the delivery coming from West's mid-field lately....

[Rushby Hinds]

The Glenelg President, Gary Metcalf, talking at a pre game luncheon late last year made a similar public comment. He also mentioned (twice) "and i don't care if this gets mentioned in the media tomorrow" which I presumed to mean "I hope this gets mentioned in the media tomorrow". There was a journalist in the room, but it obviously wasn't deemed important enough at that time to get printed. I can't remember the specific circumstance, but I vaguely recall it was in regards to a key player for the Bays being unavailable for a key late season game (against North, which we lost by a few points) as they were a travelling emergency (I think it was Douglas with the Cows).

Gary promised to contact the AFL teams and express his "deep concerns" over the treatment given to SANFL clubs.

[BPBRB]

I "believe" in the past a number of clubs who had similar (and other) concerns but would not raise them privately with the SANFL, the two AFL clubs let alone publically comment was due to their poor financial situations. They didn't want to bite the hands that feed them in terms of AFL dividend distribution. You can expect over the next 2 or 3 years (if there is no sudden change/drop in pokie revenue in SA) as the poorer clubs improve their financial situations significantly, that the SANFL clubs will start to flex their collective muscles in terms of the matters concerning "our" comp as the AFL dividend will not be as critical as it once was and the AFL loving Whicker and Co. won't be able to wave that over the clubs when they object to things such as the minor round draw, marketing etc etc.

[Dirko]

Best thing...reserves football only for AFL listed players. What is the point of SANFL teams trying to accomodate AFL players on a last minute basis, or they need to be rested, or whatever. Surely the AFL teams have enough resource to see if a player is any good no matter what level they are playing. If a AFL player is dominating the reserves, wouldn't that catch the eye as much as one playing firsts and getting say third in the best players?
This would also mean it gives another couple of blokes a chance to play league footy, and gives the teams a level playing field in regard to AFL listed players availability come finals time etc etc. Just a thought.

[Macca19]

I think some points are valid. Others aren’t.

Player availability. What happens when there is a late change and someone has to come up from the reserves? Same situation. I cant believe a senior SANFL coach wouldn’t have a contingency plan in place for when that happens. I also cant believe that an SANFL club wouldn’t know how to use a telephone and ring that AFL club to ask if that player shall be available.

The point about requesting players being played for only a half is valid. If they are fit to play they should be available to play all match.

In the end Ive said it before and ill say it again. These clubs spend money scouting these players, they spend money on training these players, it is their choice what happens to their investment. The SANFL clubs get – sometimes very good players – for free. They don’t pay their bills, nor regularly train them. If the AFL clubs wish a certain player to play in a certain position, or decide to take him as a travelling emergency, or decide to rest them in the AFL bye week, then it is 100% their call. The SANFL clubs decide to take on these players in the mini draft. With that comes the responsibility and the knowledge that it is their AFL clubs call on what happens with these players. If they do not want that responsibility then they can easily abstain from drafting someone in the mini draft and don’t accept the dividend.

It is not an ideal situation but what other options are there?

- Create a reserves team for the AFL clubs and play that team in the SANFL. The SANFL clubs would complain about that situation. If they are successful then what? Possible loss of membership and support as well (would some fringe SANFL supporters support for example Sturt over the Crows reserves?)
- Create reserves team for the AFL clubs and play them in an AFL reserves competition. The consensus was that this would kill the SANFL. Again, probable loss of membership and support, loss of players.

So what other option is there?

[JK]

I know this is going off topic a bit, but if the Crows and Power had reserves teams playing in the SANFL, what effect would it have on the crowds?

[Barto]

I know this is going off topic a bit, but if the Crows and Power had reserves teams playing in the SANFL, what effect would it have on the crowds?

Terrible option. They'd have to top the list up to have a full squad, how would that affect player stocks from the other clubs?

North are making valid points here (and they're not the only that's pissed off about the situation).

The WAFL experimented with a host club arrangement as is done in the VFL and it wasn't popular amongst the clubs here. Currently it's a similar arrangement as the SANFL, but you don't hear the rumblings of discontent from the WAFL clubs as the Dockers and Eagles dont have the same contempt as the Crows and Power have for the SANFL clubs.

I remember one of the Sturt coaches saying that ressies aren't there to win games or premierships, they're there to make sure the league do. It seems the Crows and Power have forgotten that the clubs are just that, clubs with their own identity, tradition and desire to win premierships. Our clubs are not reserves whose success is irrelevant in relation the Crows and Power's fortunes.

[Sojourner]

After reading the Advertiser article and considering the points made by North Chief Executive Glen Elliot, I can only say that I agree 100% with what he has stated.

The SANFL is on the improve IMO. Part of the improvement needs to be the relationship with the AFL, currently we get the Sh*t end of the stick in the areas pointed out above. Clearly this needs to change if we are to move forward.

Next season we should consider undertaking a trial where only players drafted from an SANFL club can participate in that SANFL clubs league side, players that come from interstate and are allocated to the clubs can be then played in the SANFL reserves competition. If at the end of the one year trial it doesnt work we can easily revert back to the current system, if however it does work, simply make it permanent.

Ultimatley as Glen Elliot points out, the focus of the SANFL clubs is to win their matches, not to babysit and coach another sides players who dont have the same level of commitment to the SANFL club as their team mates.

[Booney]

I know this is going off topic a bit, but if the Crows and Power had reserves teams playing in the SANFL, what effect would it have on the crowds?

With lists of 38+rookies the 42 on each AFL list could not support a stand alone reserves team.

22 in the AFL,21 in the 'reserves' is a minimum of 43,throw in injuries,suspensions and so on and lists would need to be over 55 players.Making slary caps 25-40% higher (list of 38 to 50+),making it another approx $2m per club,another $32m throughout the AFL.

[Barto]

I know this is going off topic a bit, but if the Crows and Power had reserves teams playing in the SANFL, what effect would it have on the crowds?

With lists of 38+rookies the 42 on each AFL list could not support a stand alone reserves team.

22 in the AFL,21 in the 'reserves' is a minimum of 43,throw in injuries,suspensions and so on and lists would need to be over 55 players.Making slary caps 25-40% higher (list of 38 to 50+),making it another approx $2m per club,another $32m throughout the AFL.

The potential salary cost is the main reason why the AFL clubs baulked at it when the idea was floated a few weeks back.

[am Bays]

I know of a AFL premiership player who was so poor when he first got drafted his SANFL club seriously considered dropping him from the 2s becasue he was by far the worst player two weeks in a row and with League players coming back from injury someone had to make room.

He didn't get dropped the SANFL club communciated with his AFL franchise and other 2s palyers suffered the consequences. So there are examples where AFL players are given priority treatment to satisfy the AFL franchise.

[am Bays]

I know this is going off topic a bit, but if the Crows and Power had reserves teams playing in the SANFL, what effect would it have on the crowds?

With lists of 38+rookies the 42 on each AFL list could not support a stand alone reserves team.

22 in the AFL,21 in the 'reserves' is a minimum of 43,throw in injuries,suspensions and so on and lists would need to be over 55 players.Making slary caps 25-40% higher (list of 38 to 50+),making it another approx $2m per club,another $32m throughout the AFL.

The potential salary cost is the main reason why the AFL clubs baulked at it when the idea was floated a few weeks back.

Still big on the agenda over here the AFL would be funding the extra salaries (less to go to the State Leagues) very good chance we'll see an Eastern sea board comp in 2009.

[JK]

LOL .. Thanks for the responses fella's, but not one person answered the actual quesion that I asked ... Forget about whether it's practical, why it won't work etc., I was just wondering whether IF it were to happen, would it bring in additional Crows and Power fans to SANFL games that don't currently attend the local comp? Would it be likely to have a detrimental effect on the attendance of those who do currently followthe SANFL? etc., etc.

[Barto]

LOL .. Thanks for the responses fella's, but not one person answered the actual quesion that I asked ... Forget about whether it's practical, why it won't work etc., I was just wondering whether IF it were to happen, would it bring in additional Crows and Power fans to SANFL games that don't currently attend the local comp? Would it be likely to have a detrimental effect on the attendance of those who do currently followthe SANFL? etc., etc.

Yes and no. Of course the AFL fans will want to see the odd game but I doubt any more local fans would drop off. The bandwagoners who jumped on the Crows and Power have already left.

[Aerie]

Still big on the agenda over here the AFL would be funding the extra salaries (less to go to the State Leagues) very good chance we'll see an Eastern sea board comp in 2009.

Would this involve Tassie, NSW and Qld or does that include the VFL sides as well? Or Vic AFL reserves? How do you think they'd work it? It would be good if there was another competition equal to that of the WAFL/SANFL/VFL. Perhaps something along the lines of Tassie, Albury, Canberra, Swans res, West Sydney, Gold Coast, Lions Res, Cairns? Though that is a lot of travelling. How much money do the AFL have?

[Aerie]

I know this is going off topic a bit, but if the Crows and Power had reserves teams playing in the SANFL, what effect would it have on the crowds?

I think total SANFL attendances would be up, but it would have a slight effect on the SANFL clubs attendances. It also depends on whether all Power Res and Crows Res games were played as curtain raisers at Footy Park or if they had a suburban home ground.

[mal]

Congratulations to Glen Elliott and the North Adelaide Football.
Well done for sticking up for your club and the SANFL.
SANFL clubs have been used for too long by Power/Crows

Make ALL AFL players play reserves footy only
Thats what the current Crows coach used to do regularly at Norwood.

Seems very convienient for SANFL clubs to prop up injured or out
of form AFL footballers for the AFL teams benefit.

Yeah yeah yeah the old ,
" ITS THIER PLAYERS THEY CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT WITH THEM."

Next time an AFL player gets dropped Jars + Elliott should not pick him and say
" WE ARE RESTING HIM FOR NEXT WEEKS GAME...."