Trade Talk

[sydney-dog]

Mal

I am not shooting you down, I am interested in your thoughts, nothing better then a healthy debate on players

In regards to Hudson, I think their are plenty of clubs that lack a good #1 ruckman, Sydney, Carlton, St Kilda, while the Cats, Lions and Dogs ruckman spend more time injured then playing........

Your right, Hudson had one good year last year but remember he was only drafted the previous year, which makes last years performance even more creditable, and we can't judge him on this year as he has only just returned from injury

I think next year he will return a better player, especially his skill level

[mal]

SD they cant get rid of Knights he has pace, finds the ball
and with a bit of polish will be a regular constituent of the
club in the next few years.
Gibson not showed enough at Norwood as yet.
Jericho should be a star, match winner but is not, perservere ?
he has youth on his side maybe worth one more chance.

[am Bays]

No I think that is a pretty fair list Mal.

What has continued to amaze me over my years of watching and working with footy clubs how different coaches rate players.

Funny how one coach rates a player he plays good footy, coach goes and the new coach has a different opinion or doesn't back him as much and they fall by teh wayside.

What i think is important is to give players time to develop, confidence to back themselves and clear direction on how you want them to play as a unit and it is surprising how good they can be as a collective group but as individuals....

the sum of the whole is greater than the sum of the individual.....

Some of those players could go to another club and survive e.g a Sanderson going to Geelong after being a bit player at Adelaide and Collingwood.

We all remember how well Croad went at Fremantle after having career best form at Hawthorn in 2002...

[mal]

Mal

I am not shooting you down, I am interested in your thoughts, nothing better then a healthy debate on players

In regards to Hudson, I think their are plenty of clubs that lack a good #1 ruckman, Sydney, Carlton, St Kilda, while the Cats, Lions and Dogs ruckman spend more time injured then playing........

Your right, Hudson had one good year last year but remember he was only drafted the previous year, which makes last years performance even more creditable, and we can't judge him on this year as he has only just returned from injury

I think next year he will return a better player, especially his skill level

Agree the guys done nothing wrong, and might get better
Would not get a game at Port[Brogan/Lade]
Western Bulldogs [Minson/Darcy if fit, Street?]
West Coast[Cox/Seeby]

Look at the first rucks at these clubs and see if he would be better?
I have listed in capitals the ones I think are better from this weeks round.

BL...keating
CA..french
CO...FRASER
ES...HILLE
FR...SANDILANDS
GE...KING
HW...bailey
KA...HALE
ML...WHITE
PP...LADE
RI...SIMMONDS
SK...ackland
SS..JOLLY
WB..STREET .......50/50
WC...COX

Your turn SD

[sydney-dog]

Mal, I agree I would keep both Knights and Jericho, my point is players need time to develop, same as van berlo and rielly

In regards to Hudson, he would find it hard to push Brogan, Lade, Seeby and Cox aside but please, Street and Minson, when fit easily better then these two

In regards to the rest

BL...keating, McDonald too many injuries, Chalmers is their best ruckman
CO...FRASER, most over rated top 10 draft pick in history
Carl - French, cant remember last time this guy one more hit outs then his opposite number
ES...HILLE, rate but once again, last year when fit Hudson beat this calibre of player
FR...SANDILANDS, on the improve
GE...KING, too many injuries
HW...bailey, also have spider who will be on the move and Campbell who is still developing
KA...HALE, do not rate
ML...WHITE, good player but once again, last year when fit Hudson beat this calibre of player
PP...LADE, best ruckman in the comp
RI...SIMMONDS, do not rate but is improving
SK...ackland, pleae, is a sanfl player at best
SS..JOLLY, what's the saying, can't bat, can't bowl, can't play footy
WB..STREET .......50/50
WC...COX

The most important factor Eagles, Adelaide, Port and maybe Hawks are the only two sides with genuine ruck depth at their clubs, this is why Gardiner will be picked up at end of season and why Hudson would be picked up if he was cut

Your turn SD

[mal]

Moral of the story is Benny Hudson did a phenominal job
last year, can he repeat it after that knee injury?

You have given Lade a big wrap.
I still regard Brogan as good if not better.

[sydney-dog]

Lade this year has been outstanding, for me Lade and Cox are the two best ruckman in the comp, the bonus with Lade he can play a key position up forward and be one of the top forwards in the comp.

Back on the crows, one player I feel that has had a very ordinary year is Thompson, he gives away too many sloppy free kicks, gets caught with the ball too often and his skills have been ordinary this year, he needs to kick up a gear and I would play him more as a HF then a midfielder

[Punk Rooster]

Mal, your list worries me a bit- it's not the players you've assessed "right", it's the ones you've assessed "wrong" imo...

Hudson was 1st pick for the Crows last year, a very valuble part of their side, & 1 of a few reasons for their improvement.
Perrie was having a great year until injured.
These were the 2 obvious ones for mine.

SD- Josh Fraser most over-rated top 10 pick in history?
I doubt that very much.
After missing most of last year through injury, he's having a great year, & is so much more than just a ruckman- he's a forward, a rover & has a very good work ethic. In C'wood's to 5 imo.
You want over-rated?
Aaron Fiora for a start....

[mal]

Lade this year has been outstanding, for me Lade and Cox are the two best ruckman in the comp, the bonus with Lade he can play a key position up forward and be one of the top forwards in the comp.

Back on the crows, one player I feel that has had a very ordinary year is Thompson, he gives away too many sloppy free kicks, gets caught with the ball too often and his skills have been ordinary this year, he needs to kick up a gear and I would play him more as a HF then a midfielder

He did plaY a very good game for Port v South early
last year in the SANFL.

[Punk Rooster]

Lade this year has been outstanding, for me Lade and Cox are the two best ruckman in the comp, the bonus with Lade he can play a key position up forward and be one of the top forwards in the comp.

Agree.
Lade has been sensational, he also picks up plenty of touches around the ground (versatile like Fraser), & Cox was just dominating before he got injured- Fraser, Lade, Cox (say that quickly ) best 3 Ruckmen this year imo.

[mal]

Mal, your list worries me a bit- it's not the players you've assessed "right", it's the ones you've assessed "wrong" imo...

Hudson was 1st pick for the Crows last year, a very valuble part of their side, & 1 of a few reasons for their improvement.
Perrie was having a great year until injured.
These were the 2 obvious ones for mine.

SD- Josh Fraser most over-rated top 10 pick in history?
I doubt that very much.
After missing most of last year through injury, he's having a great year, & is so much more than just a ruckman- he's a forward, a rover & has a very good work ethic. In C'wood's to 5 imo.
You want over-rated?
Aaron Fiora for a start....

Good evening Punky.
If you provided a list of any team in the AFL then the others
would shoot you down as well as invariably they would like a player
that you have listed.
That was a no win post of mine which I submitted under severe
provocation from my protagonist Sydney Dog.

Now look at a statement SD made about Brendan Lade being the best
ruckman in the competition.....In my opinion Dean Cox and Justin Koschitzke
are better ruckman....

[Punk Rooster]

How can you rate Klutz-itschtke over Lade, he's hardly been on the park this year!
If you had kept your list a little shorter, you may have been on the money (you've had a 10 bet multi @ $3, & got knocked over in the last leg)

[sydney-dog]

Mal

Please stop drinking metho, Justin Koschitzke a better ruckman then lade, I think Kosi has only played 12 games leading the ruck in his career and to be honest he is one of the biggest under achievers going around, this guy had a good 6 week period lastyear when he was acting captain and apart from that has done little except injure himself

Punk Rooster

I have never ever seen Fraser take a game apart, he always seems servicable but this guy needs to start dominating, I have never seen Fraser dominate a Cox or a Lade, he always gets smashed in the ruck by strong opponents like Biglands and Hille.

I would like to see Fraser dominate a season week in week out

[mal]

HA HA HA

SD/PUNKY this is a topic on trade bait.
I threw out the bait on KOSI and got a bite from
both of you ha ha.
Still think COX is a better ruckman than LADE

[GWW]

I actually agree with some of those Mal has mentioned. Bock (only a defender IMO, does nothing as a forward) i think would probably have nearly been dropped to WWT reserves side this week if he wasn't aligned to the Crows, Clarke is only really in there for his ruckwork, does nothing at all around the ground, Van berlo has potential but nothing special at the moment. I think Mal's point is that a lot of those guys play good footy when they have the team leaders up and running and playing great footy but when they're playing greater roles within the team, they tend to struggle eg Shirley, Porplyzia, Stevens, Doughty, Massie.

I think though that Welsh (when fit) and Reilly are both quality players who'd surely get in every other club's first 22. Torney is quality as well but has been affected by injuries, not just this year but in the last few.

I think Jericho is no real value if hes to stay on the Crows list, he needs another club to get the best out of him.

Skipworth needs to be persisted with on a long term basis (unless can be used as good trade bait) and surely will come back into the side this week.......will surely take Porplyzia's place this week.

Its interesting because if the Crows dont win a premiership this year or next, their "window of opportunity" may have closed, with the imminent retirement/ageing of McLeod, Ricciuto, Goodwin, Edwards. The Crows bonus of course is that they have a coach who gets the best out of their players, and of course they have a couple of gems in Knights, Maric and Douglas, and maybe Pfeiffer whos played some reasonable footy with Norwood in the last few weeks.

[mal]

GWW that was a delightful post.
I might have been too harsh of some of those players but no
doubt Adelaide needs to take advantage of that sensational core group
you have mentioned and grab a flag.
I dare say in 2 years time there is a potential for Adelaide to be
languishing as a middle of the road team.
Im concerned that in 2006 Craigy has played all his cards and the
other coaches have plan b in readiness.
Crows need Burton/Roo fit for finals.

my best 3 for crows are
Goodwin
Riccuito
Edwards

Just ask Andrew Mcleod about my top 3 Im sure he would agree

[Dutchy]

KA...HALE, do not rate

The most important factor Eagles, Adelaide, Port and maybe Hawks are the only two sides with genuine ruck depth at their clubs, this is why Gardiner will be picked up at end of season and why Hudson would be picked up if he was cut

SD - you are kidding? from both comments above you abviously have seen nothing of the Roos this year...the ONE single positive this year is the work of Hale (top 10 draft pick from the super draft - Judd, Hodge, Ball etc...) and McIntosh. Many judges have said that these 2 are developing into the best ruck combination in the AFL

As for Lade being the best ruckman in the AFL???? 99% would take Cox anyday

[Dutchy]

As for Skipworth - he is out of contract at the end of the year and I believe needs to find a new club both for professional and financial reasons.

He would walk into more than half the clubs out there and the crows cannot g'tee him that, why would he hang around in 2007 when he could be developing his career eslewhere and making a name for himself?

These days unless you are a top liner you get a retainer and then paid per game. For skippy this would be worth say $5k minimum. so each time he is "just" left out of the crows line up its another $5k hes missing where he could walk into many blubs and getting a full 22 game season...you do the sums...

[Blue Boy]

You could go through every side in the competition and put a line through alot of players that would not play regular games in other sides.

On the flip side you could go through every side in the competition and you would probably take no more than 10 players out of a team to play in yours !!!

[Maddogmike]

Why isn't Perrie back to full match fitness yet and playing for the Crows - Stick him up forward, take a catch and get some momentum before September!
He is according to the pre-season fitness testing the 2nd or 3rd fittest aerobically at the crows! He should be back asap - but can anyone tell me how his form with North has been?!