Carlton Season 2009

[Adelaide Hawk]

BTW, I will now say our slogan, they know we're coming, is about 2 years premature. I know I defended it earlier in the year, but now I think it should be changed to, We think we're getting there, slowly.

"They know we're coming, eventually"

They know we're coming .... but we're taking the scenic route"

[Dutchy]

Ratten would have to be the next coach under the microscope...simply cant coach

[gadj1976]

Ratten would have to be the next coach under the microscope...simply cant coach

yeh righty-o.

Terrible performance from us today. Didn't get numbers to the contested ball at all and each handball was a 'standing start' to a stationary player. Very ordinary but not overly surprising given our performances each week have been either very good or very ordinary.

[Voice]

Ordinary is nor the word. I think insipid fits better. First three rounds I was thinking we've improved, now i'm thinking we've actually gone backwards. Actually, i'm not just thinking it, i know it.

[Dutchy]

Ratten would have to be the next coach under the microscope...simply cant coach

yeh righty-o.

Terrible performance from us today. Didn't get numbers to the contested ball at all and each handball was a 'standing start' to a stationary player. Very ordinary but not overly surprising given our performances each week have been either very good or very ordinary.

tell me what Ratten has done better than Pagan and ratten has a better list!

[cantbatcantbowl]

Time to kill some Cows. Go you Blues

Don't we look silly now

[Dirko]

Time to kill some Cows. Go you Blues

Don't we look silly now

Why would that look silly. Nothing wrong with a bloke backing in his team.

[gadj1976]

Ratten would have to be the next coach under the microscope...simply cant coach

yeh righty-o.

Terrible performance from us today. Didn't get numbers to the contested ball at all and each handball was a 'standing start' to a stationary player. Very ordinary but not overly surprising given our performances each week have been either very good or very ordinary.

tell me what Ratten has done better than Pagan and ratten has a better list!

I'm not even sure I should entertain you by responding to your question. But I think people need to remember that we still don't have a great defence, nor a second or third tall in attack, so we're always going to only be top 6 at absolute best, if injuries go our way.

[Voice]

Time to kill some Cows. Go you Blues

Don't we look silly now

Why would that look silly. Nothing wrong with a bloke backing in his team.

Don't worry about it SJABC, i'm used to copping it from Geelong supporters, they still haven't got over 95 have ya cantbat and REB .

[Voice]

Ratten would have to be the next coach under the microscope...simply cant coach

yeh righty-o.

Terrible performance from us today. Didn't get numbers to the contested ball at all and each handball was a 'standing start' to a stationary player. Very ordinary but not overly surprising given our performances each week have been either very good or very ordinary.

tell me what Ratten has done better than Pagan and ratten has a better list!

I'm not even sure I should entertain you by responding to your question. But I think people need to remember that we still don't have a great defence, nor a second or third tall in attack, so we're always going to only be top 6 at absolute best, if injuries go our way.

You should see what they are saying on the Carlton supporters forum. They're even calling for Sticks' head.
I do have to disagree with you about our defence though, third least points against before last weekend, fifth least now, and fourth in rebound 50's and fourth in tackles inside defensive 50. Thats not bad reading.

[gadj1976]

You should see what they are saying on the Carlton supporters forum. They're even calling for Sticks' head.
I do have to disagree with you about our defence though, third least points against before last weekend, fifth least now, and fourth in rebound 50's and fourth in tackles inside defensive 50. Thats not bad reading.

Yeh but we struggle against big forwards and hence teams (if they can) will opt to load up against us. We still will struggle against bigger bodied teams as well. Just my opinion and so far, proven true.

I don't quite understand how all of a sudden we're supposed to be a top 2 team by adding two, three or four no1 draft picks. No team that has gone top in recent time, if ever has a heap of no1 draft picks. That argument just astounds me.

You look at Geelong, Hawthorn and (only this year) St Kilda are top sides. And only this year the Saints have become stronger contenders, not because of their no1 draft picks specifically, but their second and third tier players improving. Club and player depth is the key!

[Voice]

You should see what they are saying on the Carlton supporters forum. They're even calling for Sticks' head.
I do have to disagree with you about our defence though, third least points against before last weekend, fifth least now, and fourth in rebound 50's and fourth in tackles inside defensive 50. Thats not bad reading.

Yeh but we struggle against big forwards and hence teams (if they can) will opt to load up against us. We still will struggle against bigger bodied teams as well. Just my opinion and so far, proven true.

I don't quite understand how all of a sudden we're supposed to be a top 2 team by adding two, three or four no1 draft picks. No team that has gone top in recent time, if ever has a heap of no1 draft picks. That argument just astounds me.

You look at Geelong, Hawthorn and (only this year) St Kilda are top sides. And only this year the Saints have become stronger contenders, not because of their no1 draft picks specifically, but their second and third tier players improving. Club and player depth is the key!

Depth, Now your talking about a massive problem with our club, there isn't any. Injury list doesn't help either depleting our depth even more.
Adam Bentick – Knee – 1 week

Andrew Carrazzo – Finger – 2 weeks

Lachie Hill – Hamstring – Test

Sam Jacobs – Foot – 4 weeks

Chris Johnson – Thigh – Test

Darren Pfeiffer – Shoulder – 6 weeks

Jarrad Waite – Knee – TBA

Andrew Walker – Shoulder – 8 weeks

Robert Warnock – Foot – 6 weeks

Simon Wiggins – Hamstring – 2-3 weeks
I also take your point with the big bodies but we did beat the lions who have two very big bodies up forward.
Btw, not sure where you got this top 2 team thing from, i've said all year 5th to 8th and atm just scrape in the 8 I reckon (hope!).

[Dirko]

We still will struggle against bigger bodied teams as well. Just my opinion and so far, proven true.

Good call gadg ! Here's a bit of reading...

Dangerfield 10 games - 19yrs, 84kgs
Otten 10 - 20, 87kgs
Vince 39 - 23 yrs, 7mths, 86kgs
Symes 20 - 23yrs, 10 mths, 82kgs
Moran 9 - 22yrs, 7 mths, 99kgs
Mackay 27 - 20yrs, 9mths, 72kgs
Maric 34 - 23 yrs, 4mths, 102kgs
Tippett 27 - 22 yrs, 100kgs
Walker 8 - 19yrs, 87kgs

Joseph 9 - 19yrs, 10 mths, 76kgs
Yarran 3 - 18yrs, 5 mths, 84kgs
Armfield 14 - 22yrs, 5 mths, 78kgs
Robinson 5 - 19yrs, 11mths, 79kgs
Austin 7 - 20yrs, 3mths, 89kgs
Kruezer 28 - 20yrs, 95kgs
Jamison 27 - 22yrs, 11mths, 87kgs
Bower 32 - 20yrs, 8 mths, 90kgs
Browne 14 - 20yrs, 3mths, 75kgs
Hampson 14 - 21yrs, 2mths, 95kgs

The Blues kids v the Crows kids.

1. 5/9 of the crows 'inexperienced players are 22+yrs of age (ie 55%). For the blues, we have 2/10 inexperienced players that were 22+yrs of age.

2. The average age of the crows 22+ players is approximately 23yrs 1mth (23.067yrs). If you took the equivalent bracket of players for the blues you would look at the oldest 6 players (ie 60%). The average age of the blues players in this group would be 21yrs 3mths (21.27 yrs). In effect, these crows players are about 22 mths older (which would translate to 2 extra seasons of development in the SANFL)

3. 1/9 crows players were listed as sub-80kgs. For the blues, 4/10 players are listed as sub 80kgs

4. 2/9 crows players were listed as 100+kgs (with another player at 99kgs). For the blues 0/10 are 100+kgs.

Fair difference in development stages there....

[Dirko]

The Blues NEED Jacobs or Warnock ASAP. That way they can play Kruiser at CHF.

[gadj1976]

You should see what they are saying on the Carlton supporters forum. They're even calling for Sticks' head.
I do have to disagree with you about our defence though, third least points against before last weekend, fifth least now, and fourth in rebound 50's and fourth in tackles inside defensive 50. Thats not bad reading.

Yeh but we struggle against big forwards and hence teams (if they can) will opt to load up against us. We still will struggle against bigger bodied teams as well. Just my opinion and so far, proven true.

I don't quite understand how all of a sudden we're supposed to be a top 2 team by adding two, three or four no1 draft picks. No team that has gone top in recent time, if ever has a heap of no1 draft picks. That argument just astounds me.

You look at Geelong, Hawthorn and (only this year) St Kilda are top sides. And only this year the Saints have become stronger contenders, not because of their no1 draft picks specifically, but their second and third tier players improving. Club and player depth is the key!

Depth, Now your talking about a massive problem with our club, there isn't any. Injury list doesn't help either depleting our depth even more.
Adam Bentick – Knee – 1 week

Andrew Carrazzo – Finger – 2 weeks

Lachie Hill – Hamstring – Test

Sam Jacobs – Foot – 4 weeks

Chris Johnson – Thigh – Test

Darren Pfeiffer – Shoulder – 6 weeks

Jarrad Waite – Knee – TBA

Andrew Walker – Shoulder – 8 weeks

Robert Warnock – Foot – 6 weeks

Simon Wiggins – Hamstring – 2-3 weeks
I also take your point with the big bodies but we did beat the lions who have two very big bodies up forward.
Btw, not sure where you got this top 2 team thing from, i've said all year 5th to 8th and atm just scrape in the 8 I reckon (hope!).

Is Wiggins a new injury??? He played Sunday.

We beat the Lions but struggled with key forwards (see my point about bigger forwards). We may be able to run teams off their feet (not many) but seriously where would we be rated in any department against other teams. I would rate Hawthorn way ahead of us in the midfield, our skills are still developing so I'd rate us below the top echelon of teams there, our forwards are good but certainly not great and our backline is undermanned in the height and strength department.

Out of those you mentioned Voice, Carrots, Warnock, Waite, Walker and maybe Johnson are in our best 22 on any given day. That helps our cause, but it isn't the complete answer. A key defender to allow Jamo or Thornton to play third tall (which would be ideal because of their size) and a 'proper' CHF - no disrespect to Cloke or Hampson, but they are ruckman playing CHF.

All this said, I certainly don't hold the coach accountable for any of the above.

Just my opinion.

Sorry Voice, just to add - calls for the coach or president to be sacked or whatever are just ridiculous. Those people are obviously calling for us to be top 2, I certainly wasn't implying you were.

[gadj1976]

We still will struggle against bigger bodied teams as well. Just my opinion and so far, proven true.

Good call gadg ! Here's a bit of reading...

Dangerfield 10 games - 19yrs, 84kgs
Otten 10 - 20, 87kgs
Vince 39 - 23 yrs, 7mths, 86kgs
Symes 20 - 23yrs, 10 mths, 82kgs
Moran 9 - 22yrs, 7 mths, 99kgs
Mackay 27 - 20yrs, 9mths, 72kgs
Maric 34 - 23 yrs, 4mths, 102kgs
Tippett 27 - 22 yrs, 100kgs
Walker 8 - 19yrs, 87kgs

Joseph 9 - 19yrs, 10 mths, 76kgs
Yarran 3 - 18yrs, 5 mths, 84kgs
Armfield 14 - 22yrs, 5 mths, 78kgs
Robinson 5 - 19yrs, 11mths, 79kgs
Austin 7 - 20yrs, 3mths, 89kgs
Kruezer 28 - 20yrs, 95kgs
Jamison 27 - 22yrs, 11mths, 87kgs
Bower 32 - 20yrs, 8 mths, 90kgs
Browne 14 - 20yrs, 3mths, 75kgs
Hampson 14 - 21yrs, 2mths, 95kgs

The Blues kids v the Crows kids.

1. 5/9 of the crows 'inexperienced players are 22+yrs of age (ie 55%). For the blues, we have 2/10 inexperienced players that were 22+yrs of age.

2. The average age of the crows 22+ players is approximately 23yrs 1mth (23.067yrs). If you took the equivalent bracket of players for the blues you would look at the oldest 6 players (ie 60%). The average age of the blues players in this group would be 21yrs 3mths (21.27 yrs). In effect, these crows players are about 22 mths older (which would translate to 2 extra seasons of development in the SANFL)

3. 1/9 crows players were listed as sub-80kgs. For the blues, 4/10 players are listed as sub 80kgs

4. 2/9 crows players were listed as 100+kgs (with another player at 99kgs). For the blues 0/10 are 100+kgs.

Fair difference in development stages there....

Jabber, I don't for a second think we were outmuscled by the Crows. I do think the Crows were always going to be on their game for McLeod's milestone game and I hoped that Carlton would bring some form with them. I thought we overused the ball badly in the Collingwood game and our skills were ordinary, but I hoped we'd be better for the run. The Crows went tall up forward, but they didn't really capitalise on it because I don't think they are that good a side structurally either. A major contribution to us losing was our skills which under pressure were pretty ordinary in tight.

[Voice]

Wiggins is a recurring injury and I certainly wasn't saying it's the answer if we didn't have the injuries, it's just not helping.
Definitely agree with SJABC also that Sauce and Warnock would be very helpful as I also think Kruuuuzzzzze is vital for us at hf. Pity that there injuries are listed as 4 weeks and 6 weeks respectively

[gadj1976]

Just on that, do you guys reckon Fisher and or Setanta will come in this week?

We have obvious deficiencies in attack with Fev and Hampson being our only talls with maybe Robinson, but Fisher could be the extra tall we need up forward to allow Fev to play traditional FF.

Setanta to come in as a swing man in Waite's absence. He can play back or forward if need be and do a job. Not a great job, but a job. Maybe take Kennedy or Hansen if he comes back in.

[gadj1976]

Wiggins is a recurring injury and I certainly wasn't saying it's the answer if we didn't have the injuries, it's just not helping.
Definitely agree with SJABC also that Sauce and Warnock would be very helpful as I also think Kruuuuzzzzze is vital for us at hf. Pity that there injuries are listed as 4 weeks and 6 weeks respectively

Yeh, fair call. But every team can use that as an excuse really.

I don't know if Kruze is our answer at CHF just yet either.

[Voice]

Just on that, do you guys reckon Fisher and or Setanta will come in this week?

We have obvious deficiencies in attack with Fev and Hampson being our only talls with maybe Robinson, but Fisher could be the extra tall we need up forward to allow Fev to play traditional FF.

Setanta to come in as a swing man in Waite's absence. He can play back or forward if need be and do a job. Not a great job, but a job. Maybe take Kennedy or Hansen if he comes back in.

Fish kicked 4 goals in the Bullants so he would have to be a chance, Carlos wasn't as good but he was serviceable. Btw, Cloke now has a leg injury also, ankle I think.