St Kilda

[mots02]

Press conference was a joke.
Saints saying they sacked Brett before speaking to Ross..
That's incompetence

Will be 100% true.

No one officially connected to Saint Kilda would've contacted Ross after he the GWS and Essendon noise a month ago. Similarly any one associated with Saint Kilda would only have spoken to Ross' representatives.

Ross' representatives.....

'nice little coaching gig you've got there Brett, be a shame if something happened to it....'

[Booney]

https://footyology.com.au/delusional-st ... TfmCkIqNRo


Ross Lyon and the St Kilda ‘brains trust’ are eerily perfect for one another.

Both are delusional, Group 1 bullshit artists who’ve each fallen so far behind in the race they actually think they’re winning.

But clearly, neither is, and right now the only winners are AFL neutrals who’ve earned a front-row seat to witness a textbook case of administrative amateurism.

Listening to the St Kilda board over the last couple of weeks, but particularly in its explanation of its firing of Brett Ratten less than 100 days after extending his contract, was akin to clicking on the wrong YouTube video and accidentally exposing yourself to the worst-ever Ted Talk delivered by the most mediocre of men.

Speaking of mediocrity, that’s apparently what St Kilda told us it is sick of and which is a statement that prevails as one of the more comical whines of recent years, mainly because it presumes the Saints have even come close to mediocrity.

Which is where Lyon’s entrance into this conversation couldn’t be better timed.

When round one kicks off next season, Lyon won’t have coached an AFL team in three-and-a-half years, and in the last four seasons of trying to do that compiling a 29-58 record prior to being sacked. Those last four seasons as Fremantle coach resulted in offences that ranked 16th, 17th, 16th and 16th.

You simply can’t analyse Lyon’s coaching without talking about offence, as few coaches who’ve been in the game as long as him and who’ve had as much access to high-level talent have been so consistently uninspiring when it comes to making the scoreboard tick.

In his 13 combined seasons with both St Kilda and Fremantle, Lyon produced a single top four attack. Just one. In fact, over the course of his coaching tenure, the average offensive rank by a Ross Lyon coached team was 12th. In those years, his teams went 5-46 when scoring less than 60, which is a stat we’re raising here because the Saints ranked 14th for points scored in 2022 and are seriously limited when it comes to scoring sources forward of centre.

As well as offence, another unshakeable truth about Lyon is the talent he’s had to work with at both his previous stops.

At St Kilda and Fremantle, Lyon took over two of the best lists any new coach could ever hope to inherit, each jam-packed with future Hall Of Famers and talent that was on the verge of exploding.

To Lyon’s credit, he was able to inject his trademark discipline and defensive structures into both outfits, taking both to grand finals. His work, particularly defensively, was undeniably immense even if neither team did get the chocolates, and even if both stints ended on sour notes.

However, his return to Moorabbin will be nothing like how he commenced his previous jobs, with this Saints team nowhere near premiership contention.

This is a list which houses just two All-Australians and a club which has produced just a single top five finish at the Rising Star award in the last 19 years. Furthermore, St Kilda’s addiction to trading in players in recent years has meant it’s had access to precious little first-round talent, Max King the solitary young Saint who appears on a path to stardom.

Yet, ultimately, Lyon was the old flame at the other end of the bar that the Saints have never truly been able to quit.

While Ratten was doing a decent job with the talent at his disposal, actually delivering both St Kilda and Carlton their best seasons over the past 10 years, the mega minds at Moorabbin were somehow convinced Lyon could do better in what shapes as one of the more spectacular gambles we’ve seen in recent years.

Yet it’s a gamble we really shouldn’t have been surprised by. The bright sparks currently running St Kilda are all about appearances, and there’s few figures in footy who do a better job creating an appearance than Lyon.

In fact, if Lyon wasn’t so busy in recent years knocking back jobs he was never offered, he would have done a great job playing the role of an AFL coach in a movie. Lyon walks and talks like a coach, produces endless cliches, speaks down to reporters, works staff to the bone and is an expert at explaining away underperformance.

For his new employers, it doesn’t matter that Lyon has never connected with kids and been consistently reluctant to play them. It doesn’t matter that he’s shown zero ability to be offensively adaptive.

Even Essendon, as maligned as the Bombers have been in recent years, actually conducted a genuine search to find its next coach and has made moves at board level to help bring it into the 21st century.

But not the Saints.

Lyon and St Kilda’s renewal of vows after 10 years of separation was forged through red wine, DVDs of the 2009 season and a shared belief that processes are for the weak. At St Kilda, love has found a way.

[gadj1976]

So Ratten has been sacked twice and replaced both times by coaches (I believe) well and truly past their prime.

I wonder what's next? He goes to Gold Coast and is replaced by local sun tanning expert Malcolm Blight?

He really is jinxed isn't he?

[mighty_tiger_79]

Press conference was a joke.
Saints saying they sacked Brett before speaking to Ross..
That's incompetence

Will be 100% true.

No one officially connected to Saint Kilda would've contacted Ross after he the GWS and Essendon noise a month ago. Similarly any one associated with Saint Kilda would only have spoken to Ross' representatives.

bollocks imo.

saints had a heads up on the review outcome and knew Brett was gone and would have contacted Ross directly prior to sacking Brett.

plus the shambles of that presser saying the club hadnt improved in 3 years....

[Dutchy]

You would think the last thing the Saints need is another St Kilda person

[RiderJake]

:lol:

https://footyology.com.au/delusional-st ... TfmCkIqNRohere


Ross Lyon and the St Kilda ‘brains trust’ are eerily perfect for one another.

Both are delusional, Group 1 bullshit artists who’ve each fallen so far behind in the race they actually think they’re winning.

But clearly, neither is, and right now the only winners are AFL neutrals who’ve earned a front-row seat to witness a textbook case of administrative amateurism.

Going back to your ex is a bad idea
But apparently the club is good at persuasion. I doubt anything good will come of it.

[MW]

Am I the only one who thinks this is a good appointment?

[Eagles2014]

Am I the only one who thinks this is a good appointment?

Nup, agree. Was one bad bounce of the ball away from being a Premiership coach, had another year they lost one game for the season and just lost to gun Cats team, plus took Freo to the GF which nobody has been able to do. Like it a lot.

[amber_fluid]

We are talking about St Kilda here.
What can Ross do that Ratten couldn’t?
Bugger all.

Stupid decision IMO

[MW]

We are talking about St Kilda here.
What can Ross do that Ratten couldn’t?
Bugger all.

Stupid decision IMO

Make finals?
Make a Grand Final(s)?

[gadj1976]

Am I the only one who thinks this is a good appointment?

Nup, agree. Was one bad bounce of the ball away from being a Premiership coach, had another year they lost one game for the season and just lost to gun Cats team, plus took Freo to the GF which nobody has been able to do. Like it a lot.

That was 7 years ago they made the GF and since then his coaching record was poor/abysmal. Has the game gone past him?

[oldman]

It's absolutely the right decision. Ratten relies on talent to win games of football and had zero plan to fall back on when things weren't going to plan. Lyon brings a set of structures and game plan that have stood up time and time again. All this talk about the saints not having enough top end talent is crap. Marshall, Steele,Gresham, Sinclair, Hill, Clarke, Coffield, Billings, Owens, Windhager, King, Membrey, Higgins, Battle, Howard all have room to improve and with the right coach who I believe Lyon is we will see a significant improvement from the whole side moving forward.

[Booney]

It's absolutely the right decision. Ratten relies on talent to win games of football and had zero plan to fall back on when things weren't going to plan. Lyon brings a set of structures and game plan that have stood up time and time again. All this talk about the saints not having enough top end talent is crap. Marshall, Steele,Gresham, Sinclair, Hill, Clarke, Coffield, Billings, Owens, Windhager, King, Membrey, Higgins, Battle, Howard all have room to improve and with the right coach who I believe Lyon is we will see a significant improvement from the whole side moving forward.

Like a list of the best Smiths Chips there. Spuds one after another.

King*

[mots02]

It's absolutely the right decision. Ratten relies on talent to win games of football and had zero plan to fall back on when things weren't going to plan. Lyon brings a set of structures and game plan that have stood up time and time again. All this talk about the saints not having enough top end talent is crap. Marshall, Steele,Gresham, Sinclair, Hill, Clarke, Coffield, Billings, Owens, Windhager, King, Membrey, Higgins, Battle, Howard all have room to improve and with the right coach who I believe Lyon is we will see a significant improvement from the whole side moving forward.

Like a list of the best Smiths Chips there. Spuds one after another.

King*

I'll admit, I don't know the Saints list very well, never go out of my way to watch them play but was surprised to see 3 on the list of top end talent that i'd literally never heard of before .

[Booney]

In the 09 GF St Kilda had :
King, Montagna, Riewoldt, Milne, Hayes, Dal Santo, Ball, Goddard, Fisher, Koschitzke

In the 13 GF Fremantle had :
Sandilands, Hill, Pavlich, Mundy, Crowley, McPharlin, Johnson, Mayne, Barlow, Neale

For mine those mentioned trump the current St Kilda list.

Marshall, Steele, Gresham, Sinclair, Hill, Clarke, Coffield, Billings, Owens, Windhager, King, Membrey, Higgins, Battle, Howard

I don't see that Membrey, Higgins, Howard, Marshall or Hill have any improvement in them.

[gadj1976]

It's absolutely the right decision. Ratten relies on talent to win games of football and had zero plan to fall back on when things weren't going to plan. Lyon brings a set of structures and game plan that have stood up time and time again. All this talk about the saints not having enough top end talent is crap. Marshall, Steele,Gresham, Sinclair, Hill, Clarke, Coffield, Billings, Owens, Windhager, King, Membrey, Higgins, Battle, Howard all have room to improve and with the right coach who I believe Lyon is we will see a significant improvement from the whole side moving forward.

Industry experts say they're a majority of list cloggers. I reckon the industry are right. Only Steele, Marshall and King would make a top 4-6 side.

[Jimmy_041]

[saintal]

It's absolutely the right decision. Ratten relies on talent to win games of football and had zero plan to fall back on when things weren't going to plan. Lyon brings a set of structures and game plan that have stood up time and time again. All this talk about the saints not having enough top end talent is crap. Marshall, Steele,Gresham, Sinclair, Hill, Clarke, Coffield, Billings, Owens, Windhager, King, Membrey, Higgins, Battle, Howard all have room to improve and with the right coach who I believe Lyon is we will see a significant improvement from the whole side moving forward.

Industry experts say they're a majority of list cloggers. I reckon the industry are right. Only Steele, Marshall and King would make a top 4-6 side.

Marshall is widely over-rated based on his output the past few seasons. Was runner up in the B+F back in 2019 but hasn't come close to reaching that form and consistency since, with admittedly a few injuries not helping.

Feeling a little apathetic about the whole coaching change/circus. Certainly never thought we'd see Ross back in the red, white and black.

Best case scenario with the current list is progressing past the first week of the finals, as occurred in 2020.

[Armchair expert]

Gresham would be a gun in a good side.

[oldman]

You blokes missed the point. All the players I listed will be better playing in a team that doesn't rely on individual talent but rather plays a brand of football that puts team first with a strong coach. Maybe the reason the saints are deemed to be a home for little cloggers is because of the way in which the players have been coached over the last decade. I mean Watters and Richardson hardly set the world on fire before Ratten came in, clearly something went wrong in the second half of this year.