History of ANZAC Day Grand Final replay

[robranisgod]

Mark McGrath (West) the other of the two who died whilst involved in the Vietnam War, along with Peter Chant

Mark McGrath was an interesting case. He was a pilot in the RAAF and for 50 years or more the authorities denied that his death had any involvement with the Vietnam war given that he died in Thailand. That brilliant journalist Mike Sexton has written an article about McGrath's death and the fact that although his death was caused in a training accident, he was indeed a casualty of the Vietnam conflict.
I actually saw his first league game in 1964. He came onto the ground, I think in the second quarter and proceeded to play a great game. I was only 9 years of age but like everyone at the game thought that this young giant had a huge future in the game. Mike goes into great detail to explain how he missed the rest of the season because it was found that he was residentially tied to Glenelg and then had a good 1965 season for West before pursuing his career in the RAAF.

https://www.footyalmanac.com.au/an-anza ... k-mcgrath/

[spell_check]

Mark McGrath (West) the other of the two who died whilst involved in the Vietnam War, along with Peter Chant

Mark McGrath was an interesting case. He was a pilot in the RAAF and for 50 years or more the authorities denied that his death had any involvement with the Vietnam war given that he died in Thailand. That brilliant journalist Mike Sexton has written an article about McGrath's death and the fact that although his death was caused in a training accident, he was indeed a casualty of the Vietnam conflict.

That's how I see (for example) George Brock as being killed on active service, even though it was just a training exercise; so then should McGrath be.

[robranisgod]

Mark McGrath (West) the other of the two who died whilst involved in the Vietnam War, along with Peter Chant

Mark McGrath was an interesting case. He was a pilot in the RAAF and for 50 years or more the authorities denied that his death had any involvement with the Vietnam war given that he died in Thailand. That brilliant journalist Mike Sexton has written an article about McGrath's death and the fact that although his death was caused in a training accident, he was indeed a casualty of the Vietnam conflict.

That's how I see (for example) George Brock as being killed on active service, even though it was just a training exercise; so then should McGrath be.

No doubt. I agree entirely. I was criticising the authorities not you. I digress but my wife's step father lost a brother killed in an aircraft training accident in Saskatoon, Canada in 1942. He clearly was a World War 2 casualty.

[Aerie]

Didn't want to start a new topic (yet), or clog up one of spell_check's playing list topics with this question, but is there a resource that lists all the SANFL players who died at war, or as a result of it?

According to the link below, there is no record of SANFL players who were killed during (or as a result) of war and I had no luck googling for it.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/anzac-ce ... 827fde4dfd

The AFL has this: https://www.afl.com.au/news/40720/playe ... ar-ww1-ww2 and Port Adelaide have an article here: https://www.portadelaidefc.com.au/news/ ... len-heroes

With the comprehensive lists of players spell_check and Mark Beswick have put together (apologies if there are others who have assisted), I guess it would be possible to piece this together.

spell_check or any others, do you know if a list such as this has been done? I did a brief search, but couldn't find a topic on this forum.

I have tried to compile a list, but it's really only relying on club websites list of players like in the links above:

This is a list of everyone I have who died between the declaration and armistice of WW1 (* is confirmed) and some you can weed out due to age that they didn't serve:

Philip de Quetteville Robin Norwood 10 8 1884 25 4 1915*
Brunel John Nash Norwood 29 5 1887 25 4 1915*
Frank James South Sturt 7 9 1879 4 5 1915*
Percy Harold Baulderstone Sturt 17 10 1889 2 7 1915*
William Harold Job South 1 2 1887 27 9 1915
Guy Holbrook Taylor Torrens North 24 2 1891 6 10 1915*
James Augustine Moy Torrens West 9 5 1886 13 11 1915*
Herbert Percy Lee Sturt 1884 17 2 1916
Noel Murray Dalton Suhard Norwood 5 4 1896 20 5 1916
Peter Bernard Fitzpatrick West 9 6 1916
John Wesley Blacket Norwood 20 7 1886 4 7 1916*
Charles Ernest Goodall Torrens 5 2 1879 25 7 1916
Charles William Hooper Norwood 13 4 1884 25 7 1916*
Dave Low Torrens 6 4 1887 4 8 1916*
Ronald George McKail North 4 3 1889 6 8 1916*
Osma Voy Richardson Sturt 17 9 1892 7 8 1916*
Philip Messmer Newland Norwood 2 2 1875 11 8 1916
Samuel Sloss Sturt 15 3 1891 11 8 1916
Harold Frederich Cade West 3 6 1888 21 8 1916*
Joseph Reginald O'Neil Torrens 13 7 1890 21 8 1916
Albert Reginald Victor Chaplin Port 1 8 1892 4 9 1916
Leslie Sneyd North 12 12 1893 5 11 1916*
Samuel Francis Keating West 1876 25 1 1917
William Henry McBeath Torrens 11 10 1891 25 2 1917*
Frank Kirby Kingsley North 15 6 1893 2 4 1917*
Lionel William Harvey Norwood Torrens 7 12 1888 11 4 1917*
William George Shueard Torrens 18 3 1895 11 4 1917*
Kenneth McKenzie Port 25 5 1865 3 5 1917
Joseph Charles Watson Port 10 9 1893 12 5 1917*
John Kenworthy Ashhurst North 15 9 1895 22 7 1917*
Enoch John Thomas Bishop West Torrens 2 6 1873 26 7 1917
Howard Hawkins Suhard Norwood 7 3 1890 31 8 1917
Peter George Edwards Sturt 4 1 1892 7 10 1917*
Walter Morgan Norwood West 19 12 1883 15 10 1917*
Elder Harrow Oborn West 12 4 1894 28 10 1917
Percy Henry Hamilton Barkla West 19 4 1872 13 11 1917
Edward Callanan South Port 18 4 1918*
William Irving Boon Port 22 7 1891 24 4 1918*
Stanley Shepley Coombs Sturt 10 10 1882 28 5 1918*
Charles William Victor Pade South 3 10 1884 30 5 1918
William Hamley Healey Norwood 23 7 1893 1 6 1918*
Archibald James Gosling Port 9 1 1880 5 6 1918
Joseph Arnold Blacket Norwood 28 8 1894 10 6 1918*
Harold Victor Conrad South 29 4 1886 8 8 1918
Douglas John Walsh Port Sturt 3 4 1884 12 8 1918*
George Mensforth West 25 4 1883 13 10 1918

Brilliant spell-check. Thank you. Certainly, these names should all be remembered.

It is still hard to comprehend the volume of young men that were killed, let alone the number that came back who would've been effected physically or mentally forever. At least 27 dead. I wonder the role football and football clubs played in helping those who came back. The camaraderie etc. that was essential in war, but was possibly missing on return.

[Aerie]

WAFC War Veterans.jpeg (83.44 KiB) Viewed 1921 times

Here is a photo found on the Virtual War Memorial website: https://vwma.org.au/explore/memorials/10632

Located in the players change rooms at Richmond Oval. "Information provided by WAFC Club Historian Mark Beswick" is noted on the bottom of the honour board.

[Aerie]

Didn't want to start a new topic (yet), or clog up one of spell_check's playing list topics with this question, but is there a resource that lists all the SANFL players who died at war, or as a result of it?

According to the link below, there is no record of SANFL players who were killed during (or as a result) of war and I had no luck googling for it.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/anzac-ce ... 827fde4dfd

The AFL has this: https://www.afl.com.au/news/40720/playe ... ar-ww1-ww2 and Port Adelaide have an article here: https://www.portadelaidefc.com.au/news/ ... len-heroes

With the comprehensive lists of players spell_check and Mark Beswick have put together (apologies if there are others who have assisted), I guess it would be possible to piece this together.

spell_check or any others, do you know if a list such as this has been done? I did a brief search, but couldn't find a topic on this forum.

I have tried to compile a list, but it's really only relying on club websites list of players like in the links above:

This is a list of everyone I have who died between the declaration and armistice of WW1 (* is confirmed) and some you can weed out due to age that they didn't serve:

Philip de Quetteville Robin Norwood 10 8 1884 25 4 1915*
Brunel John Nash Norwood 29 5 1887 25 4 1915*
Frank James South Sturt 7 9 1879 4 5 1915*
Percy Harold Baulderstone Sturt 17 10 1889 2 7 1915*
William Harold Job South 1 2 1887 27 9 1915
Guy Holbrook Taylor Torrens North 24 2 1891 6 10 1915*
James Augustine Moy Torrens West 9 5 1886 13 11 1915*
Herbert Percy Lee Sturt 1884 17 2 1916
Noel Murray Dalton Suhard Norwood 5 4 1896 20 5 1916
Peter Bernard Fitzpatrick West 9 6 1916
John Wesley Blacket Norwood 20 7 1886 4 7 1916*
Charles Ernest Goodall Torrens 5 2 1879 25 7 1916
Charles William Hooper Norwood 13 4 1884 25 7 1916*
Dave Low Torrens 6 4 1887 4 8 1916*
Ronald George McKail North 4 3 1889 6 8 1916*
Osma Voy Richardson Sturt 17 9 1892 7 8 1916*
Philip Messmer Newland Norwood 2 2 1875 11 8 1916
Samuel Sloss Sturt 15 3 1891 11 8 1916
Harold Frederich Cade West 3 6 1888 21 8 1916*
Joseph Reginald O'Neil Torrens 13 7 1890 21 8 1916
Albert Reginald Victor Chaplin Port 1 8 1892 4 9 1916
Leslie Sneyd North 12 12 1893 5 11 1916*
Samuel Francis Keating West 1876 25 1 1917
William Henry McBeath Torrens 11 10 1891 25 2 1917*
Frank Kirby Kingsley North 15 6 1893 2 4 1917*
Lionel William Harvey Norwood Torrens 7 12 1888 11 4 1917*
William George Shueard Torrens 18 3 1895 11 4 1917*
Kenneth McKenzie Port 25 5 1865 3 5 1917
Joseph Charles Watson Port 10 9 1893 12 5 1917*
John Kenworthy Ashhurst North 15 9 1895 22 7 1917*
Enoch John Thomas Bishop West Torrens 2 6 1873 26 7 1917
Howard Hawkins Suhard Norwood 7 3 1890 31 8 1917
Peter George Edwards Sturt 4 1 1892 7 10 1917*
Walter Morgan Norwood West 19 12 1883 15 10 1917*
Elder Harrow Oborn West 12 4 1894 28 10 1917
Percy Henry Hamilton Barkla West 19 4 1872 13 11 1917
Edward Callanan South Port 18 4 1918*
William Irving Boon Port 22 7 1891 24 4 1918*
Stanley Shepley Coombs Sturt 10 10 1882 28 5 1918*
Charles William Victor Pade South 3 10 1884 30 5 1918
William Hamley Healey Norwood 23 7 1893 1 6 1918*
Archibald James Gosling Port 9 1 1880 5 6 1918
Joseph Arnold Blacket Norwood 28 8 1894 10 6 1918*
Harold Victor Conrad South 29 4 1886 8 8 1918
Douglas John Walsh Port Sturt 3 4 1884 12 8 1918*
George Mensforth West 25 4 1883 13 10 1918

From the people above mentioned that played league football for West Torrens:

Charles Ernest Goodall can be confirmed. He played 44 league games between 1899 and 1906 and was assistant secretary of the club during his playing days and leading into the war. He was killed in action in France in the battle for Pozieres.

Enoch John Thomas Bishop's death date is correct, and he died of illness in Adelaide Hospital at age 44, so can be ruled out.

And I'm not sure about Joseph Reginald O'Neil. From what I can find, this person was a footballer from North Launceston and perhaps not the person who played for West Torrens? An O'Neil, who played 2 games in 1912 and a further 2 games in 1913, is mentioned in a newspaper article as having gone back to play for Paddington in Sydney after his 2 games in 1912, before returning to play for West Torrens later in the season in 1913.

[spell_check]

https://tasmanianwarcasualties.com/War% ... ginald.htm

It says he was known as "Jerry" in the above link as it does here: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... 20football

I should have really recorded evidence of every player I have for these records, rather than search for them again. This says R.O'Neil came from Tasmania:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... %20torrens

[Aerie]

https://tasmanianwarcasualties.com/War%20Casualties/WW1/Notes/Surnames%20O/O'Neil,%20Joseph%20Reginald.htm

It says he was known as "Jerry" in the above link as it does here: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... 20football

I should have really recorded evidence of every player I have for these records, rather than search for them again. This says R.O'Neil came from Tasmania:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... %20torrens

That confirms it then. Good work. A lot of movement between states in those early days, as there is now.

[spell_check]

This is a small article regarding a number of players involved in WW1 (seeing as O'Neil was only briefly involved, is not listed):

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... 20football

[spell_check]

It's important to recognise people who compile extensive lists, however a list I obtained somewhere online that I forgot I had does not have any author attached to it.

It lists the following who was killed on active service for the VFL, SANFL, WAFL and TFL; the SANFL players listed are:

WW1:
JOHN K. ASHHURST North Adelaide 1915 Ypres, Belgium 22/07/1917
PERCY H. BALDERSTONE Sturt 1912, 1914 KIA, Gallipoli Peninsula, Turkey 02/07/1915
JOHN W. BLACKET Norwood 1907-09 Messines, Belgium 04/07/1916
JOSEPH A. BLACKET Norwood 1915 France 10/06/1918
WILLIAM BOON Port Adelaide 1913-15 Killed in action, Merincourt, France 24/04/1918
HAROLD CADE West Adelaide 1910 Pozieres, France 21/08/1916
EDWARD CALLANAN Port Adelaide 1910-12 Killed in action, France 18/04/1918
ALBERT CHAPLIN Port Adelaide 1913-14 Killed in action, Mouqet Farm, France 12/08/1918
STANLEY S. COOMBS South Adelaide 1900 France 28/05/1918 Sturt 1901-02
PETER G. EDWARDS Sturt 1912-15 Passchendaele 07/08/1917
ARCHIBALD GOSLING Port Adelaide 1900-05 DOW, France 5/6/1918
LIONEL W. HARVEY Norwood 1908 Bullecourt, France 11/04/1917
WILLIAM H. HEALEY Norwood 1915
CHARLES W. HOOPER Norwood 1903 Pozieres, France 25/07/1916
FRANK JAMES South Adelaide 1899-1900 Sturt 1901-04 Alexandria, Egypt 04/05/1915
FRANK K. KINGSLEY North Adelaide 1912 Noreuil, France 02/04/1917
ARTHUR LIMB Sturt 1915 Died of gassing wounds, Gawler 07/05/1920
DAVE LOWE West Torrens 1910-15 KIA 04/08/1916
RONALD G. MCKAIL North Adelaide 1907-13 Pozieres, France 06/08/1916
JAMES MOY West Adelaide - - -
BRUNEL J. NASH Norwood 1909-14 Gallipoli Peninsula, Turkey 02/05/1915
E. OBORN West Adelaide - - -
ROBIN PHILIP DE QUETTEVILLE Norwood 1905-14 Gallipoli Peninsula, Turkey 25/04/1915
OSMA V. RICHARDSON Sturt 1912-15 France 07/08/1916
LESLIE SNEYD North Adelaide 1913-15 Pozieres, France 05/11/1916
KEITH R. J. SUHARD Norwood 1910-11 48th Casual Clearing Station, France 13/02/1919
NOEL M. D. SUHARD Norwood 1915 No. 6 Infectious Diseases Hospital, North Adelaide 20/05/1916
GUY H. TAYLOR West Torrens North Adelaide 1909 1910 Dardanelles, Turkey 06/10/1915
DOUGLAS WALSH Port Adelaide Sturt 1908 1910-12 Died of illness, Keswick 12/08/1918
JOSEPH WATSON Port Adelaide 1911, 1913-14 Died of wounds, France 12/05/1917
CHARLES J WOODS West Adelaide 1908 France 23/07/1916

WW2:
JACK V. BRITTAIN North Adelaide 1941 Laverton, Victoria 21/03/1942
GEORGE BROCK Port Adelaide North Melbourne 1937, 1939 40 1941 Training accident, OAS at the You Yangs, Vic 02/08/1941
LESLIE R BROWN West Adelaide 1938-41 New Guinea 09/10/1943
MAXWELL G CARMICHAEL Port Adelaide 1938-41 Bougainville 02/07/1945
LAVINGTON E. J. F. CHINNERY Norwood 1932-28, Captain in 1934 Belgium 13/05/1944
HENRY R. FARRANT North Adelaide 1938-39 Palestine 14/07/1941
JACK F. GOLDING Sturt 1932 El Alamein 10/07/1942
JEROME S. HAYES Sturt 1932-34 Innisfail while on training manoeuvres 26/12/1943
REGINALS S. HOGBEN North Adelaide 1941 Zealand, Denmark 20/04/1943
ROSS W (BILL) HUDSON West Adelaide St Kilda 1937-41 1942 New Guinea 11/04/1945
HAROLD E JARVIS West Adelaide 1933-37 Middle East 02/04/1944
CHRISTOPHER JOHNSTON Port Adelaide 1935-42 Illness, New Guinea 15/12/1943
KENNETH L. KING North Adelaide 1941 Trappes, France 10/06/1944
REX T. LATHLEAN Sturt 1940-42 North Sea 24/07/1944
MALCOLM MCKIGGAN Port Adelaide 1934 Flying accident, England 06/11/1943
ALFRED C. MUSSMAN Sturt East Perth 1929-34 1935-41 Singapore 15/02/1942
GEORGE QUINN Port Adelaide 1940 Egypt 22/07/1942
PAUL R. ROBERTSON Sturt 1931-38 Gona, New Guinea 29/11/1942
LLOYD RUDD Port Adelaide 1935-40 Killed in action, Sidon, Syria 14/06/1941
GORDON SAWLEY South Melbourne Norwood 1937-40 1941 OAS in training flight accident over Scotland 14/08/1942
MAXWELL J. TRENGOVE North Adelaide 1935-36 Sattelburg, Germany 16/11/1943
KENNETH L. TRENORDEN South Adelaide - - -
JACK WADE Port Adelaide South Melbourne 1927-29 1931-33 Syria 11/06/1941
JACK R WARMING West Adelaide 1927 POW Camp, Malaysia 01/03/1944
IAN W. WARREN Sturt 1939-40 El Alamein 22/07/1942
RONALD W. WEST Norwood 1934-35, 1938-40 Rabaul, New Guinea 02/01/1944
HAROLD ZUCKER Hawthorn 1942 Died of illness, attributable to war service 07/06/1947

Vietnam:
PETER CHANT Port Adelaide 1961-62 15 Miles North of Nui Dat, South Vietnam 14/02/1969

*Note this is just what the file has;there are omissions and incomplete data as you can see.