Community Cricket Structure

Local cricket is the go here. Any talk about local comps, grade cricket, etc.

Re: Community Cricket Structure

Postby no_remorse28 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:25 am

Arch44 wrote:I moved to Kilburn last season to play a season with a mate. Our Agrade and half the Bgrade have Afghan heritage and there is some very talented players amongst them and they are mostly nice guys.
The Agrade were premiers in LO2 which was great. The issue I had was they weren't all financial and some players were given club shirts for the GF and they still didn't wear them in the premiership photos.
As a whole I didn't enjoy the season in the Bgrade as training was farcical with guys coming and going as they pleased, sitting down for a chat during training, having their own training away from the club on a different night, some training in jeans and thongs, no white shirts in sight, game days they would car pool(which is fine) but regularly late or right on start time, there was no promotion to those that performed or dropping of those who were underperforming, a few would hang in the car park in the back of a van playing cards and having drinks instead of using the big clubrooms, I would struggle to name 3/4 of the Agrade premiership side looking at their photos, yet we had to accept it because I was told the club is on the right track.
I think the success of the Agrade and the 2 seasons previous by the Bgrade is masking the issues that are there and will come back to bite them.


These issues to the club are not new, but Kilburn has a slightly different situation, its not as if they took in guys looking to use a club for there own social team, the area itself is now a multicultural community and requires the club to help accommodate it, it has been in waves, at times it was very successful and the balance was right, as I believe the onus is on a club to make the community feel welcome. At other times the relationship was strained because integrating the cultures was not seen as a huge priority by the club, with out that support it managed to whether away, but as I said it happened in waves and managed to rebuilt.

But I stress again, this is Kilburn and its demographic, I've spent many an hour with the Afghanis and I can say that if the time is given in a constructive way with tolerance and respect it will be given back, but it needs to be a directive of the club to make this work and use the local multicultural ambassadors to help achieve it if it seems hard or strained at times, also a great place to discuss the financial nature of things as they often have stepped in and helped deal with these issues. At times What we perceive at times as a lack of interest or respect towards the club is often a misunderstanding on their behalf of how we view the importance of a club and its culture as a playing group. I would suggest reaching out to some of the lads who have been there several years to help bridge any gap you are feeling there is. I know the current coordinator will leave no stone un turned to try and create the right balance, The club itself in recent years has also really managed to increase the impact it has and the involvement of the local community.

But without the Afghans, Kilburn cricket would off ceased years ago.
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Re: Community Cricket Structure

Postby whufc » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:41 am

Tony Clifton wrote:
whufc wrote:
Tony Clifton wrote:From another perspective, are community clubs set up to cater for a team of friends who want to play?

Or do players have to fit into the club structure where players might be picked in the A's, B's or C's in any particular week, depending on their ability and performance?

It is notable that a lot of these new teams are made up of cricketers recently arrived from overseas. Do they not feel comfortable walking into an existing, established cricket club for a game? If not, why? And what can be done to improve that situation?

I agree with your broad point that these 'pop up' clubs are not the best thing for the overall health of cricket, though acknowledge that it's good to see people playing (in any team).


^^^^^^^^^^

This 100%

Without having the stats in front of me its seems a very high majority of the new parkland style teams are based around the countries new arrivals.

I don't have a clue how 'club' cricket works overseas but is our system somewhat unique, is club cricket a structure other countries have. Is there a cultural difference between being able to go and play with 100% of your mates/family compared to a community structure where you are 'put' in a team based on skill and ability.

I agree, are we making new arrivals feel welcome enough. Being in the country at the moment its fair to say we don't see the same number of new arrivals in the region. When i was last playing city cricket very very very casual racism still existed. Very minor things like saying to the Indian bloke, 'we cant have our club curry night now because you will win it every year'.

Also and once again being very stereotypical but alot of our new arrivals work in the hospitality industry, I imagine this makes things such as training fairly difficult, in a community club structure each club has its own ways of dealing with non trainers etc. Do community clubs do enough to try and cater training for the needs of the players or are we all too locked in to Tuesday and Thursday night at 5:30pm? Back when I was living in the city it was not uncommon to see groups of what appeared to be new arrivals at the nets during non traditional hours like mid morning etc.

I honestly don't have the answers but i do agree that there is a lot of potential risk in every second old mate trying to and being able to set up their own club at the expense of the community clubs. Even listening to some blokes at my old city club i know their enjoyment was wavering due to a large amount of games played at grounds with limited amenities including toilets, canteen/kiosk, air conditioned club rooms etc. The same risk exists though when you get a group of glory hunters who want to come as a package and form their own superstar D Grade under your clubs banner. I've seen then end disastrously on many occasions as will.

From what ive seen as well a lot of those pop up clubs can be some the hardest for leagues to manage. Some last 10 years others quit mid season, they seem to be more of a year to year propositon, they also don't seem to be willing to meet the league requirements surrounding grade as well as community clubs, they don't tend to have the picture view that most community clubs have.

Don't really have the answer but yeah those pop up clubs don't really sit comfortable with me.

Interesting article:

"Rock Up" Cricket

https://www.orsr.sa.gov.au/ors_news?a=33188


Interesting...

I have to admit i get a bit nervous when i see these new 'trendy' type comps arise. I think their great if they either provide a pathway to your main cricket teams or they are just used by people who genuinely fit into that category and don't have the time, resources to play in your main cricket teams.

The issue is though on many occasions these comps become your primary attraction and its your main cricket that takes the hit. To a lesser extent we see this a lot with one day cricket comps. I know in PDCA they were initially created to try and attract more older boys who still wanted to play but couldn't commit to two day cricket. Many years on now though and the top level one day cricket comp is a dogs breakfast, a combination of A grade teams whilst also quality crickets littered throughout taking easy trophies.

I know i am old school but for me it would be a sad day if competitive community two day cricket is lost to just a bunch of versions of 'social' comps eg rock up cricket, supercricket, last man standing.
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Re: Community Cricket Structure

Postby whufc » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:44 am

I also wonder whether cricket comps around SA have ever discussed this pop up style clubs with other sporting codes before.

I was apart of the amateur soccer league for an extended period and boy do they have all sorts of issues with this pop up parkland clubs, everything from them being unstructured, to moving grounds, to having no system, no accountability.

Its almost at a boiling point in amateur soccer and im not sure the league knows how to deal with it.
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Re: Community Cricket Structure

Postby Tony Clifton » Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:59 am

whufc wrote:I also wonder whether cricket comps around SA have ever discussed this pop up style clubs with other sporting codes before.

I was apart of the amateur soccer league for an extended period and boy do they have all sorts of issues with this pop up parkland clubs, everything from them being unstructured, to moving grounds, to having no system, no accountability.

Its almost at a boiling point in amateur soccer and im not sure the league knows how to deal with it.

Netball definitely does

Clubs come from an absolute hodge podge of different backgrounds and set ups. Leagues are all over the place
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Re: Community Cricket Structure

Postby Dutchy » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:07 am

whitepointers wrote:
Dutchy wrote:A couple of years back a local club down South took on a D grade team from another club when they moved to another comp, these are your normal old school D graders, not new arrivals, again just a group of mates that wanted to play together locally and not travel all around town.

Club thought it was a good things to get another team and have a new group of players, except they were all a mob of pricks and damaged the clubs reputation. Half way thru the year the C grade were struggling for numbers and they refused to go up to assist, association rules are that you have to forfeit your bottom team so it put everyone in a very difficult position, didnt end well.


What club or comp was this in ?


Hills - relates to 2 of the clubs in the Southern area, one now in another comp. I played against them one day, in my 40 years of cricket it was one of the worst days Ive ever experienced.
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Re: Community Cricket Structure

Postby Arch44 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:35 am

no_remorse28 wrote:
Arch44 wrote:I moved to Kilburn last season to play a season with a mate. Our Agrade and half the Bgrade have Afghan heritage and there is some very talented players amongst them and they are mostly nice guys.
The Agrade were premiers in LO2 which was great. The issue I had was they weren't all financial and some players were given club shirts for the GF and they still didn't wear them in the premiership photos.
As a whole I didn't enjoy the season in the Bgrade as training was farcical with guys coming and going as they pleased, sitting down for a chat during training, having their own training away from the club on a different night, some training in jeans and thongs, no white shirts in sight, game days they would car pool(which is fine) but regularly late or right on start time, there was no promotion to those that performed or dropping of those who were underperforming, a few would hang in the car park in the back of a van playing cards and having drinks instead of using the big clubrooms, I would struggle to name 3/4 of the Agrade premiership side looking at their photos, yet we had to accept it because I was told the club is on the right track.
I think the success of the Agrade and the 2 seasons previous by the Bgrade is masking the issues that are there and will come back to bite them.


These issues to the club are not new, but Kilburn has a slightly different situation, its not as if they took in guys looking to use a club for there own social team, the area itself is now a multicultural community and requires the club to help accommodate it, it has been in waves, at times it was very successful and the balance was right, as I believe the onus is on a club to make the community feel welcome. At other times the relationship was strained because integrating the cultures was not seen as a huge priority by the club, with out that support it managed to whether away, but as I said it happened in waves and managed to rebuilt.

But I stress again, this is Kilburn and its demographic, I've spent many an hour with the Afghanis and I can say that if the time is given in a constructive way with tolerance and respect it will be given back, but it needs to be a directive of the club to make this work and use the local multicultural ambassadors to help achieve it if it seems hard or strained at times, also a great place to discuss the financial nature of things as they often have stepped in and helped deal with these issues. At times What we perceive at times as a lack of interest or respect towards the club is often a misunderstanding on their behalf of how we view the importance of a club and its culture as a playing group. I would suggest reaching out to some of the lads who have been there several years to help bridge any gap you are feeling there is. I know the current coordinator will leave no stone un turned to try and create the right balance, The club itself in recent years has also really managed to increase the impact it has and the involvement of the local community.

But without the Afghans, Kilburn cricket would off ceased years ago.


It may have ceased years ago, but no one really knows that and the current coordinator doesn't leave no stone un turned because some have tried to help or offer assistance and the response is annoyance and he takes offence to it. Unless you played this season no_remorse you wouldn't actually know, remembering I was new to the club with fresh eyes. The success will mask everything and what they are doing with cricket I believe isn't sustainable in the long run with the running costs of cricket and the facilities as a starting point, the rest is listed above.
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Re: Community Cricket Structure

Postby no_remorse28 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:09 am

I reckon Im probably in a pretty good position to understand it mate, as I said above. It is a ongoing balance that sometimes feels like it gets out of whack, But doesn't mean it cant be re addressed and re balanced.

The current Coordinator works closely with the club itself and tries to do the best he can with the guidance he receives from the Committee, which has several experienced and knowledgeable people on this very subject. I understand at times people want to help, but to be fair he has a pretty good understanding of what issues the club faces and his support and advice would come from his fellow committee members.

As for unsustainable well this is a term that has been used since we first introduced the Afghani players to the club, it took years to try and convince some that this would be advantageous to the crickets longevity and in case im wrong it still exists. It was managed with out the success you speak of let alone the success now. Their is also no harm in you raising your concern with the whole committee if you haven't already, they are trying to be as proactive as possible in maintaining a strong core of multicultural support and encouragement.

My strongest advice to anyone wanting to be a part of building a strong future at the club would be proactive in trying to understand and get to know the Afghani lads, work with them and try and find the balance I speak of between Culture and club

I myself have had several chats of support and advice as well with regards to cricket there, as you can take the boy out of Kilburn . . . .
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Re: Community Cricket Structure

Postby The Bedge » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:09 am

no_remorse28 wrote:But without the Afghans, Kilburn cricket would off ceased years ago.

Was that when you and your mates won a flag then left for Para Hills? :P
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Re: Community Cricket Structure

Postby no_remorse28 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:12 am

The Bedge wrote:
no_remorse28 wrote:But without the Afghans, Kilburn cricket would off ceased years ago.

Was that when you and your mates won a flag then left for Para Hills? :P

I never won a flag with Kilburn
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Re: Community Cricket Structure

Postby The Bedge » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:13 am

no_remorse28 wrote:
The Bedge wrote:
no_remorse28 wrote:But without the Afghans, Kilburn cricket would off ceased years ago.

Was that when you and your mates won a flag then left for Para Hills? :P

I never won a flag with Kilburn

Oh is that why you quit? :D
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Re: Community Cricket Structure

Postby no_remorse28 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:15 am

I quit because we interviewed you for the coaching job when you got fed up with Enfield and then didn't like the pressure the role offered and went running back home, least it was a good feed at the Oakden that night
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Re: Community Cricket Structure

Postby no_remorse28 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:31 am

The Bedge wrote:
no_remorse28 wrote:
The Bedge wrote:
no_remorse28 wrote:But without the Afghans, Kilburn cricket would off ceased years ago.

Was that when you and your mates won a flag then left for Para Hills? :P

I never won a flag with Kilburn

Oh is that why you quit? :D

Also technically I retired for the 4th time, before making a comeback at the Hills.
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Re: Community Cricket Structure

Postby The Bedge » Fri Feb 03, 2023 1:37 pm

Phantom Gossiper wrote:With the rumours of the SCA folding over the winter, C&CCA (despite the most evenly contested season in a long time) struggling for numbers and the Hills leagues facing constant uphill battles, it makes me wonder if it's time someone like SAMCA/SACA stepped in and looked at an overhaul and restructuring of community cricket statewide.

Personally I think the state should be zoned into 3 main sections - South (A&SCA), Metro/Central (C&CCA) and North (PDCA).

Absorb clubs from Hills and SCA into the zones, and obviously re-zone existing clubs accordingly, this would create 3 strong competitions covering all major areas of the state.

Also could look to invest in clubs transitioning to turf wickets, increase the number of turf clubs and split ATCA into North and South zones?

Curious to hear peoples thoughts...

Phantom you were a true visionary when others failed to see it. 8)
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Re: Community Cricket Structure

Postby V0ice0fthev0iceless » Fri Dec 08, 2023 2:18 pm

It's that time of the day - let's get tongues wagging.

Community cricket in the state has continued to be challenged, with participation levels overall dropping year on year. A number of community competitions have seen staples of their competition either dropping to lower divisions due to lack of high level talent, loss of a high volume of players, or in some cases, clubs folding all together.

There are minimal competitions with two day cricket any longer, and it appears that those competitions with any two day cricket have floated the idea of replacing it with one day cricket only. If that's going to be the standard for all community cricket, then perhaps it's time for a complete overhaul of the community system all together.

It's a drastic suggestion, but what if all 5 major community competitions (ASCA, PDCA, GSCA, HCA, A&EHCA) merged to become "Community Cricket SA". All games are 50 over, one day games, with teams being sectioned in to geographical regions. I've had a crack at roughly dividing clubs into these regions (some of them are really rough and based on some clubs nominating sides in limited overs competitions)

Hills
Aldgate
Ashbourne
Bremer Callington
Bridgewater
Echunga
Hahndorf
Lenswood
Mount Barker
Mylor
Nairne
Port Elliot
Stirling
Victor Harbor
Wistow
Woodside

Central
Coromandel
Coromandel Ramblers
Happy Valley
Kangarilla
Keswick
Langhorne Creek
Lobethal
Macclesfield
Meadows
Mitchell Park
Mt Lofty
Plympton Footballers
Scott Creek Ironbank
St Johns OS
Strathalbyn

Southern
Aldinga
Cove
Encounter Bay
Goolwa
ICC Sharks
McLaren Districts
Morphettville Park
Mt Compass
Myponga Sellicks
Noarlunga
Port Noarlunga
Rapid Bay
Sheidow Park
Willunga
Yankalilla

North
Angle Vale
ATCO
Central United
Craigmore
Dublin
Eastern Park
Eyre
North Haven
North Pines
One Tree Hill
Sailsbury
Salisbury North
Smithfield
Virginia
Western Youth Centre

The premiership for each region would be the minor premier at the end of the home and away season. The finals series would be contested between the minor premier of the 4 regions.

Like I said, this is drastic, it's probably bonkers and never, ever going to happen. But hey, let's throw a dart at the board and see what people think.
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Re: Community Cricket Structure

Postby Lightning McQueen » Fri Dec 08, 2023 2:35 pm

Nice thought but you’re missing at least 10 PDCA clubs and you’re missing the West on Salisbury.

50 overs is a bit extreme unfortunately, teams struggle to bowl 70 in 5 and a half hours.

I wouldn’t mind seeing a knockout cup like you have suggested instead of just the T20
SAMCA Cup thingy
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Re: Community Cricket Structure

Postby V0ice0fthev0iceless » Fri Dec 08, 2023 2:39 pm

Yeah very rough my man. I don't have any knowledge of that side of town so apologies to those I may have left out!

SAMCA T20 comp was good, but it was tough to get sides to back up on the Sunday. Most clubs weren't fielding their strongest sides and it really fizzled out.
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Re: Community Cricket Structure

Postby Lightning McQueen » Fri Dec 08, 2023 3:01 pm

V0ice0fthev0iceless wrote:Yeah very rough my man. I don't have any knowledge of that side of town so apologies to those I may have left out!

SAMCA T20 comp was good, but it was tough to get sides to back up on the Sunday. Most clubs weren't fielding their strongest sides and it really fizzled out.

The endeavour is there mate.
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Re: Community Cricket Structure

Postby Armchair expert » Fri Dec 08, 2023 3:06 pm

50 overs start at 9am

Get out of the sun by 3pm

Still plenty of time to get ready go out Saturday night

Common sense!
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Re: Community Cricket Structure

Postby daysofourlives » Fri Dec 08, 2023 7:43 pm

Unfortunately there is no will from CA or SACA to help out.
All the numbers say participation levels have never been higher which we all know is absolute rubbish. And that is all they care about. Its only about bragging over other sports to attract the corporate dollar.
I would venture to say these participation numbers have increased through the participation of girls at under age level. I would guess the actual participation levels of boys has decreased. The cost of the cricket blast is prohibitive for many and i think this prevents many from starting the game of cricket. After this point most clubs are pretty good with subs for juniors, i think my club is $20 for the season.
U16s continues to be the biggest problem. I dont have the answers. My club plays most of the u16s in seniors, we are able to do that with out too much harm to them as their U16 comp is on Friday nights. The U16s only play 7 games for the year (2day games, 40 overs each innings). Its not enough cricket to make improvements. we find alot of them are bowlers and not too many batsman coming through. I imagine 10 minutes to bat at training is significantly less than the amount of practice a bowler can do.
Could a senior division with set amount of juniors per team work or a junior division with x amount of senior players?
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Re: Community Cricket Structure

Postby whitepointers » Fri Dec 08, 2023 7:54 pm

The drop off rate between the age of 16-24 is 75% and has been for many years.
These figures from a SACA staffer I know.
There are much more expensive sports to play as a junior than cricket.
Cricket blast is $99 for a 10 week program. I'm not sure how that compares to auskick.
Fact is that the new restricted formats of under age cricket is not keeping more kids in the game
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