Greens - Labor Coalition

[Sojourner]

Why are the Greens in Coalition with a political party that is sending children that arrive in Australia as Refugees to Malaysia?

Seem to hear plenty of huffing and puffing about how bad it is to do this to children from Sarah Hanson-Young, yet the Greens continue to support the ALP irrespectively? If the Greens support the ALP and keep them in power so that they can continue the policy of sending refugee children to Australia, does it not follow that it is their own party policy also as they clearly are facilitating it to happen?

Surley the Greens would not sell out their principals for political power? Could it be that they are no different to any other party where the motto is simply "do as we say, not as we do"?

[fish]

GREENS CONDEMN INHUMANE MALAYSIAN PEOPLE SWAP DEAL

The Australian Greens have condemned the Malaysian Solution reached today which will involve sending up to 800 people, including unaccompanied children, to an unknown fate.

"Under this deal, the Australian government is shirking its international obligations to offer protection to those seeking our assistance," Greens' immigration spokesperson, Sen. Sarah Hanson-Young, said.

"The Greens are doubtful that in reality the rights and protections of 800 vulnerable people sent by Australia will be any different to the 94,000 asylum seekers already in Malaysia.

"Ultimately these 800 people will be subject to domestic Malaysian law, and we know these laws do not meet appropriate human rights standards.

"We do not support any policy to expel unaccompanied children and families to a country which has not signed the UN Refugee Convention.

"This four-year deal is a waste of Australian taxpayers' money that would be better spent increasing our humanitarian intake so 800 people do not have to board boats before 4,000 refugees are taken from Malaysia.

"Both houses of parliament have already condemned this deal, but it can be enacted because the Immigration Minister does not need parliament's approval.

"Nearly10 years ago the Greens condemned the Pacific Solution. We condemn its newest version, the Malaysian solution."

[Gozu]

Why are the Greens in Coalition with a political party that is sending children that arrive in Australia as Refugees to Malaysia?

Seem to hear plenty of huffing and puffing about how bad it is to do this to children from Sarah Hanson-Young, yet the Greens continue to support the ALP irrespectively? If the Greens support the ALP and keep them in power so that they can continue the policy of sending refugee children to Australia, does it not follow that it is their own party policy also as they clearly are facilitating it to happen?

Surley the Greens would not sell out their principals for political power? Could it be that they are no different to any other party where the motto is simply "do as we say, not as we do"?

The attempted Greens wedge by the Right, how cute. Putting aside the fact the Greens don't support the Labor government's odious "Malaysian solution" at all, what should they do? Pull out of the coalition govt they are currently in? Sure might remove Labor from power and then hey presto a Liberal govt. Not happening.

[redandblack]

I totally disagree with the 'Malaysian Solution', just as I disagreed with the 'Pacific Solution', the 'Nauru Solution' and any other 'solution' that treats people fleeing from death and persecution as less than human.

It pains me to see a Labor Government following such a policy out of political necessity. This used to be a bipartisan issue, until John Howard decided to turn human misery into a political winner.

It made me ashamed of our country when John Howard decided that a Norwegian sea captain who had rescued people at sea was refused permission to land at the nearest port. I was ashamed that refugees were dehumanised for political gain. I was ashamed that children were locked up behind barbed wire in the middle of nowhere, just for political gain. I was ashamed that John Howard and Peter Reith told us that refugees weren't human, because they had thrown their own children into the sea. I was even more ashamed that they knew that was a lie when they said it.

What makes me even more ashamed is listening to the people who supported that cruel policy now crying crocodile tears over refugees treatment in Malaysia. Their sudden new-found 'humanity' makes me vomit. Where was the media during the Howard years on this topic? Apart from a few Liberal members of parliament who stood up for their beliefs, the media was totally complicit in this travesty.

I understand why the government is pursuing this line, but that doesn't excuse it.

I'm sorry, Sojourner, you often contribute thoughtful posts, but this just continues the party politicisation of men, women and children who are fleeing things we wouldn't even dream would ever happen in Australia.

[Sojourner]

II'm sorry, Sojourner, you often contribute thoughtful posts, but this just continues the party politicisation of men, women and children who are fleeing things we wouldn't even dream would ever happen in Australia.

R&B, surprisingly enough I do think that sending underage children overseas to to Malaysia is actually the wrong thing to do. Reuniting them with their parents or relatives should be the first priority, irrespective of where those people live be it in Australia or overseas.

On the whole issue of "Boat People", what I hope that people on both sides of the arguement agree on is that the boat trips are incredibly dangerous and have cost the lives of hundreds of people and have to be stopped for that reason alone.

I think Australia probably should increase its refugee intake if that is possible which no doubt it would be, don't have a problem with that either.

I think that where Australia along with Gillard and Abbott and the rest of politics go wrong on the problem is that we don't do anything like enough to stop the problem at the source by addressing the issues that cause people to become refugees, including if they are economic refugees. Extreme Capatalism is a bad thing and it leads to people in Africa working for a pittance to provide what is essentially slave labor to harvest Coffee and Cocoa Beans which companies sell at a huge profit into Australia. Its time that action was taken on this issue and that a law was passed to say that only the Chocolate and Coffee that bears the "Fair Trade" label can be sold in Australia. A small step it is, but one that directly addresses the issue of poverty in Africa.

I also think that Australian Councils and States need to have another look at the cities that they choose to be "Sister Cities" with. I would like to see us be a Sister City with a city in the third world and then actually help them accordingly as siblings in a family actually would.

It seems to me that political parties only want to apply a band aid and don't want to address the actual issues of the problem.

[Sojourner]

The attempted Greens wedge by the Right, how cute. Putting aside the fact the Greens don't support the Labor government's odious "Malaysian solution" at all, what should they do? Pull out of the coalition govt they are currently in? Sure might remove Labor from power and then hey presto a Liberal govt. Not happening.

Have you ever read the book, or seen the play "Major Barbara" Gozu? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_Barbara

It addresses the issue of what happens when an organisation accept funding or influence from something that they are founded to oppose. How many Green members favour the Malaysian Solution as Policy and how many totally oppose the idea of Refugee Camps of any type in the first place? I would put the figure as close as you can get to 100% opposed. Yet what we see now is those ambitions being sold out by the leadership of the party. Make no mistake the Greens can immediately put a stop to the "Malaysian Solution" right now. I am not so sure that Gillard would rush out and call an election if the Greens said they would not support her government whilst the solution is in place. More likely she would just scrap it to stay in power herself. Perhaps the Greens don't want to go to an election now, I am not sure that they would not receive similar levels of support than what they did last time, so I also am not sure if they would sustain any actual losses or gains either. What I do know is that if they do not take action against what they oppose and actually become compliant in it, that there will be a large section of their members that will realise that they have been sold out as a result and may well feed into the current idea of forming a new Greens party that is predominantly about the Environment as the Greens used to be and not dominated by the Socialist Alliance party as is the current situation. Think that Bob Brown and the leadership of the Greens need to be very very careful about giving any support to the Malaysian Solution as they are, because putting the true believers - like Major Barbara outside of the organisation, is not the way to go for success.

[Psyber]

Well put about the boat people issue, Sojourner.
Incidentally, the Malaysian solution is one ALP policy I agree with.
I think the deal to take more proven genuine refugees while not taking the irregular arrivals until they are properly assessed is sound.
It does discourage the risky business of shipping people here in leaky boats, on the untrue promise they will get to stay if they pay to make the trip.
Stopping that will save lives.

Unfortunately, as emotional an issue as it is, if we start making exceptions for anyone it defeats the point of the policy that attempts to discourage people risking their lives in this way.
That applies whether they are children, or people disappointed enough to stage a hunger strike when they don't get what someone else promised them.

[Psyber]

The attempted Greens wedge by the Right, how cute. Putting aside the fact the Greens don't support the Labor government's odious "Malaysian solution" at all, what should they do? Pull out of the coalition govt they are currently in? Sure might remove Labor from power and then hey presto a Liberal govt. Not happening.

Have you ever read the book, or seen the play "Major Barbara" Gozu? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_Barbara

An interesting play written by George Bernard Shaw, a member of the socialist Fabian Society which espoused achieving socialistic objectives by "cautious persistence".
Also an important influence on the UK Labour movement and our Labor one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_Society
[I have a book of all his plays and Major Barbara was one of the best.]

[Sojourner]

[I have a book of all his plays and Major Barbara was one of the best.]

Because you like Bernard Shaw, or is it because of your strict Salvationist upbringing Psyber?

[Psyber]

[I have a book of all his plays and Major Barbara was one of the best.]

Because you like Bernard Shaw, or is it because of your strict Salvationist upbringing Psyber?

Because I like a lot of Shaw, but not the more polemic stuff like "Man and Superman", which I never finished reading.
His brief "Shakes versus Shav." is a bit of fun.

While my parents were in the Salvos, and my mother was serious about it, I suspect my father was only in it for playing in the band.
He played Trumpet, Trombone and Cornet - sadly, only the Cornet was still around when I was growing up, but I still have it.
So the influence on me was mainly through my mother's expectations of behaviour - I rarely attended services, and then only for the band too.

In fact, I've been to almost as many Mormon services - I went with a school friend a few times in my mid teens, out of sheer curiosity.
That sure scared my mother though, who feared I'd be converted to what she saw as a weird cult..
[I'm not religious at all now, and haven't really ever been since I was about 10 years old.]

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Even Fairfax are backing the policy (to an extent)

http://www.theage.com.au/national/we-we ... 1igxj.html

As others who risked their lives at sea are sent back from Australia this week, the Taithoul family is critical of the gamble taken by those families who - unlike them - could afford to pay people smugglers and who risked their children's safety at sea. He said he had never tried to get on a boat because it was too dangerous and they were too poor.