Gillard should go!

[bulldogproud2]

[quote="Jimmy_041]
It wasn't a funeral - it was a memorial to 3 members of an organisation that has been branded a listed terrorist organisation by our Australian Govt.
These two politicians attended as representatives of the SA Govt, and Rankine allegedly spoke on behalf of the SA Govt which also includes you and me
Whether: PKK is, or isn't, a terrorist organisation, justified or unjustified in their ambitions, doesn't matter.
These two individuals, who attended as elected govt. officials, have no right to ignore the foreign policy of our Country.
I have no problem if they went along as private citizens.[/quote]

As has been stated in the media, the three ladies for whom the memorial service was held were senselessly murdered in Paris and had done nothing unlawful. What is wrong with members of the South Australian Government attending, showing that they are against the senseless murder of women?? They did not actually show their support for any terrorist organisation, just showed that they have compassion for victims of violence. Also, if you look at the facts, it is hard to see the PKK as terrorists but moreso people fighting for their rights. Consider the following:



According to human rights organisations since the beginning of the uprising 4,000 villages have been destroyed,[102] in which between 380,000 and 1,000,000 Kurdish villagers have been forcibly evacuated from their homes.[103] Some 5,000 Turks and 35,000 Kurds,[102] including 18,000 civilians[104] have been killed, 17,000 Kurds have disappeared and 119,000 Kurds have been imprisoned by Turkish authorities.[105][102] According to the Humanitarian Law Project, 2,400 Kurdish villages were destroyed and 18,000 Kurds were executed, by the Turkish government.[103] Other estimates have put the number of destroyed Kurdish villages at over 4,000.[106] In total up to 3,000,000 people (mainly Kurds) have been displaced by the conflict,[107] an estimated 1,000,000 of which are still internally displaced as of 2009.[108]


It is a bit like the US condemning Iraqis as terrorists when they invaded Iraq under false pretences (no weapons of mass destruction, no Iraqis involved in 9/11). Surely it was the US who were the terrorists, was it not???

Cheers

[Jimmy_041]

What internationally recognised terrorism network are they members of... might as well included Mother Theresa in there...

Aung San Suu Kyi is a key player of the NLD, that is regarded as a terrorist organisation by the Burmese Government.
Nelson Mandela was a member of the African National Congress that was also deemed a terrorist organisation.
Cheers

Were they deemed as terrorist organisations by the Australian Govt?

[Jimmy_041]

[quote="Jimmy_041]
It wasn't a funeral - it was a memorial to 3 members of an organisation that has been branded a listed terrorist organisation by our Australian Govt.
These two politicians attended as representatives of the SA Govt, and Rankine allegedly spoke on behalf of the SA Govt which also includes you and me
Whether: PKK is, or isn't, a terrorist organisation, justified or unjustified in their ambitions, doesn't matter.
These two individuals, who attended as elected govt. officials, have no right to ignore the foreign policy of our Country.
I have no problem if they went along as private citizens.[/quote]

As has been stated in the media, the three ladies for whom the memorial service was held were senselessly murdered in Paris and had done nothing unlawful. What is wrong with members of the South Australian Government attending, showing that they are against the senseless murder of women?? They did not actually show their support for any terrorist organisation, just showed that they have compassion for victims of violence. Also, if you look at the facts, it is hard to see the PKK as terrorists but moreso people fighting for their rights. Consider the following:



According to human rights organisations since the beginning of the uprising 4,000 villages have been destroyed,[102] in which between 380,000 and 1,000,000 Kurdish villagers have been forcibly evacuated from their homes.[103] Some 5,000 Turks and 35,000 Kurds,[102] including 18,000 civilians[104] have been killed, 17,000 Kurds have disappeared and 119,000 Kurds have been imprisoned by Turkish authorities.[105][102] According to the Humanitarian Law Project, 2,400 Kurdish villages were destroyed and 18,000 Kurds were executed, by the Turkish government.[103] Other estimates have put the number of destroyed Kurdish villages at over 4,000.[106] In total up to 3,000,000 people (mainly Kurds) have been displaced by the conflict,[107] an estimated 1,000,000 of which are still internally displaced as of 2009.[108]


It is a bit like the US condemning Iraqis as terrorists when they invaded Iraq under false pretences (no weapons of mass destruction, no Iraqis involved in 9/11). Surely it was the US who were the terrorists, was it not???

Cheers[/quote]

Probably, but you still miss the point
Our Federal Govt have deemed the PKK a terrorist organisation.
As duly elected Govt officials, these two people have no right to ignore our foreign policy and represent the people of South Australia at the memorial of three members of that organisation. Atkinson can protest all he wants but he forgets who he represents - the people of SA and he does not have the luxury of picking and choosing what Australian laws and policies he wants to comply with. If he feels the PKK have been maligned, go change Australia's position on the matter
Would you be viewing this any differently if they were members of al-Qaeda or Jemaah Islamiyah? I wouldn't be

[scoob]

What internationally recognised terrorism network are they members of... might as well included Mother Theresa in there...

Aung San Suu Kyi is a key player of the NLD, that is regarded as a terrorist organisation by the Burmese Government.
Nelson Mandela was a member of the African National Congress that was also deemed a terrorist organisation.
Cheers

Were they deemed as terrorist organisations by the Australian Govt?

And Desmond Tutu? Member if the terror organisation - the anglican church? Comparing these members of a Government recognised terror organisation to 3 Nobel peace price winners - back when it mean something... yeah good comparision.

cheers

[Sojourner]

Its a bit like the US condemning Iraqis as terrorists when they invaded Iraq under false pretences (no weapons of mass destruction, no Iraqis involved in 9/11). Surely it was the US who were the terrorists, was it not???

Cheers

How did Syria get Chemical Weapons?

[Jimmy_041]

Its a bit like the US condemning Iraqis as terrorists when they invaded Iraq under false pretences (no weapons of mass destruction, no Iraqis involved in 9/11). Surely it was the US who were the terrorists, was it not???

Cheers

How did Syria get Chemical Weapons?

[bulldogproud2]

What internationally recognised terrorism network are they members of... might as well included Mother Theresa in there...

Aung San Suu Kyi is a key player of the NLD, that is regarded as a terrorist organisation by the Burmese Government.
Nelson Mandela was a member of the African National Congress that was also deemed a terrorist organisation.
Cheers

Were they deemed as terrorist organisations by the Australian Govt?

And Desmond Tutu? Member if the terror organisation - the anglican church? Comparing these members of a Government recognised terror organisation to 3 Nobel peace price winners - back when it mean something... yeah good comparision.

cheers

What the comparison is showing is that governments make mistakes. Even Nobel Prize winners have been members of groups that have been deemed as terrorists by one government or another. As Jay Weatherill stated, it is wrong that the PKK has been branded as a terrorist organisation in Australia. Our governments have made a number of mistakes at various times. Was this not shown by supporting Iraq against Iran and then shortly after going into war against Iraq??

Additionally, I think that you guys are missing the point that Mr Atkinson and Ms Rankine did not go to the memorial service as a show of support for the PKK. You cannot colour a person just because of a group they belong to. The coalition's viewpoint is like none of us being able to go to Booney's funeral because he barracks for Port Adelaide, our mortal enemy!!


Cheers

[bulldogproud2]

[quote="Jimmy_041]
It wasn't a funeral - it was a memorial to 3 members of an organisation that has been branded a listed terrorist organisation by our Australian Govt.
These two politicians attended as representatives of the SA Govt, and Rankine allegedly spoke on behalf of the SA Govt which also includes you and me
Whether: PKK is, or isn't, a terrorist organisation, justified or unjustified in their ambitions, doesn't matter.
These two individuals, who attended as elected govt. officials, have no right to ignore the foreign policy of our Country.
I have no problem if they went along as private citizens.[/quote]

As has been stated in the media, the three ladies for whom the memorial service was held were senselessly murdered in Paris and had done nothing unlawful. What is wrong with members of the South Australian Government attending, showing that they are against the senseless murder of women?? They did not actually show their support for any terrorist organisation, just showed that they have compassion for victims of violence. Also, if you look at the facts, it is hard to see the PKK as terrorists but moreso people fighting for their rights. Consider the following:



According to human rights organisations since the beginning of the uprising 4,000 villages have been destroyed,[102] in which between 380,000 and 1,000,000 Kurdish villagers have been forcibly evacuated from their homes.[103] Some 5,000 Turks and 35,000 Kurds,[102] including 18,000 civilians[104] have been killed, 17,000 Kurds have disappeared and 119,000 Kurds have been imprisoned by Turkish authorities.[105][102] According to the Humanitarian Law Project, 2,400 Kurdish villages were destroyed and 18,000 Kurds were executed, by the Turkish government.[103] Other estimates have put the number of destroyed Kurdish villages at over 4,000.[106] In total up to 3,000,000 people (mainly Kurds) have been displaced by the conflict,[107] an estimated 1,000,000 of which are still internally displaced as of 2009.[108]


It is a bit like the US condemning Iraqis as terrorists when they invaded Iraq under false pretences (no weapons of mass destruction, no Iraqis involved in 9/11). Surely it was the US who were the terrorists, was it not???

Cheers[/quote][/quote]

Probably, but you still miss the point
Our Federal Govt have deemed the PKK a terrorist organisation.
As duly elected Govt officials, these two people have no right to ignore our foreign policy and represent the people of South Australia at the memorial of three members of that organisation. Atkinson can protest all he wants but he forgets who he represents - the people of SA and he does not have the luxury of picking and choosing what Australian laws and policies he wants to comply with. If he feels the PKK have been maligned, go change Australia's position on the matter
Would you be viewing this any differently if they were members of al-Qaeda or Jemaah Islamiyah? I wouldn't be[/quote]

Please tell me what law Mr Atkinson and Ms Rankine broke by attending the Memorial Service. I think you will find there is no law against it. As for attending a memorial service for a member of al-Qaeda or Jeemah Islamiyah it would depend on the circumstances of their deaths. If they were gunned down 'senselessly' like these three ladies were, yes I would. If they were killed whilst trying to inflict damage against other people, no I would not.
Additionally, you need to look at the individual person and their circumstances, not just their membership of a particular group. I guess that you believe that ALL motorcycle riders are criminals just because a few engage in criminal activities.
Cheers

[Jimmy_041]

I didn't say they breached a law.

You can listen to it here: http://www.abc.net.au/adelaide/programs/adelaide_breakfast/?site=adelaide&ref=front-page-slider-adelaide-regional-landing

[bulldogproud2]

Criticising people for not 'blindly' following a government policy (which btw is not an offence to not comply with) pretty much amounts to foolishness. To follow a government's policies blindly without thinking about whether they are correct or not requires a person to not think for themselves but to basically be a puppet of the government. This is exactly how totalitarian regimes operate and what allowed Nazi Germany to flourish. The population of Germany blindly accepted the government's statements about the Jewish people being 'less than human' and a threat to those of Aryan blood. This also happened in the US in the 1930's when negroes, homosexuals and others who did not meet society's 'norms' were sterilised.
I would encourage all people to think for themselves when making decisions rather than just follow someone blindly.
Most 'thinking' people would agree that the three ladies who were murdered in Paris certainly did not deserve to die and, as such, there was definitely nothing wrong in Mr Atkinson and Ms Rankine attending the memorial service. It is just a pity that most conservatives really have little knowledge of world issues and try to make political mileage out of something they should have supported rather than condemned.

Cheers

[Roxy the Rat Girl]

Who gives a **** if they attended or not. It is a free country. What is more important for the two politicians concerned is the job of governing the State well for now and into the future. If they do that then they can go to whoever's funeral or memorial service they like as far as I'm concerned.

We should be focused on the big and important issues that relate directly to getting this State back on the rails not petty political point scoring. This is such a storm in a tea cup.

[Jimmy_041]

Criticising people for not 'blindly' following a government policy (which btw is not an offence to not comply with) pretty much amounts to foolishness. To follow a government's policies blindly without thinking about whether they are correct or not requires a person to not think for themselves but to basically be a puppet of the government. This is exactly how totalitarian regimes operate and what allowed Nazi Germany to flourish. The population of Germany blindly accepted the government's statements about the Jewish people being 'less than human' and a threat to those of Aryan blood. This also happened in the US in the 1930's when negroes, homosexuals and others who did not meet society's 'norms' were sterilised.
I would encourage all people to think for themselves when making decisions rather than just follow someone blindly.
Most 'thinking' people would agree that the three ladies who were murdered in Paris certainly did not deserve to die and, as such, there was definitely nothing wrong in Mr Atkinson and Ms Rankine attending the memorial service. It is just a pity that most conservatives really have little knowledge of world issues and try to make political mileage out of something they should have supported rather than condemned.

Cheers

Well, f*** me, that's about as ridiculous comment as I have ever heard on here

[bulldogproud2]

Criticising people for not 'blindly' following a government policy (which btw is not an offence to not comply with) pretty much amounts to foolishness. To follow a government's policies blindly without thinking about whether they are correct or not requires a person to not think for themselves but to basically be a puppet of the government. This is exactly how totalitarian regimes operate and what allowed Nazi Germany to flourish. The population of Germany blindly accepted the government's statements about the Jewish people being 'less than human' and a threat to those of Aryan blood. This also happened in the US in the 1930's when negroes, homosexuals and others who did not meet society's 'norms' were sterilised.
I would encourage all people to think for themselves when making decisions rather than just follow someone blindly.
Most 'thinking' people would agree that the three ladies who were murdered in Paris certainly did not deserve to die and, as such, there was definitely nothing wrong in Mr Atkinson and Ms Rankine attending the memorial service. It is just a pity that most conservatives really have little knowledge of world issues and try to make political mileage out of something they should have supported rather than condemned.

Cheers

Well, f*** me, that's about as ridiculous comment as I have ever heard on here

You, for one, sure seemed to have no idea of what the PKK was and what was happening in Turkey before it was spelt out to you!
Vicki Chapman and a number of others who had condemned the actions of Mr Atkinson and Ms Rankine also had no idea of the magnitude of suffering the Kurdish people have been through.
On a Federal level, conservatives have demonstrated for years that they do not understand what has been happening in countries that has led to people looking for asylum outside their borders. Tony Abbott has also demonstrated that he has no knowledge of Malaysian law re asylum seekers nor the dangers of turning boats back.
They also don't seem to realise that there has been a Global Financial Crisis, always criticising the one government in the world who has produced the strongest economic figures.
I rest my case!!
Cheers

[Jimmy_041]

Nah, not correct - but my point was not the worth of their cause
But you did get me on one thing - I didn't know Bishop Desmond Tutu & Aung San Suu Kyi are members of a terrorist organisation listed by the Australian Govt. I obviously dont have as much knowledge of world issues as you.
Then again, maybe if you had mentioned the Armenians instead of the Germans and the jews in your rant, I might have thought you actually knew something about Turkish history.
Plus it is a shame Tony Abbott's Malaysian Solution failed

Cheers

[Psyber]

Who gives a **** if they attended or not. It is a free country. What is more important for the two politicians concerned is the job of governing the State well for now and into the future. If they do that then they can go to whoever's funeral or memorial service they like as far as I'm concerned.

We should be focused on the big and important issues that relate directly to getting this State back on the rails not petty political point scoring. This is such a storm in a tea cup.

Agreed.
Until his recent death I used to regularly have dinner with Elliott Johnston, former Supreme Court Judge, and prior to that long term member of the Communist Party, and the Communist candidate in many state elections.

That didn't make me a Communist, nor a "Commie" sympathiser, nor a lawyer.
Nor did it preclude me from office in my branch of the Liberal Party.
It just meant I liked Elliott, and his legal friends, some of whom are more capital "C" conservative than me.

[bulldogproud2]

Nah, not correct - but my point was not the worth of their cause
But you did get me on one thing - I didn't know Bishop Desmond Tutu & Aung San Suu Kyi are members of a terrorist organisation listed by the Australian Govt. I obviously dont have as much knowledge of world issues as you.
Then again, maybe if you had mentioned the Armenians instead of the Germans and the jews in your rant, I might have thought you actually knew something about Turkish history.
Plus it is a shame Tony Abbott's Malaysian Solution failed

Cheers

Jimmy, last point I am going to make on this.. but NEVER did I say that they were members of a terrorist organisation listed by the Australian Government. However, they were members of a terrorist organisation according to at least one nation.
Also, my point about the Jews was nothing to do with Turkish history - it was simply to show you the futility in blindly following the policies of the State. Perhaps you have not heard of the Holocaust and how it succeeded because ordinary German people ALLOWED it to by not taking a stand against government policy. Thank God we have the PKK who are attempting to ensure that the same does not happen to the Kurdish people, as Turkey has wanted to do for years.
As for Malaysia, Tony Abbott had to be convinced that it is not a safe haven as it is NOT a signatory to the United Nations Convention on Refugees.

[Jimmy_041]

Apology to Senator Cory Bernardi
Date: April 13, 2013

Articles published by Fairfax Media on January 27 and 28 contained allegations that Senator Cory Bernardi had failed to properly declare pecuniary and other interests in his statement of registrable interests.

They alleged that Senator Bernardi had breached his disclosure obligations by not declaring his role as international delegate of the American Legislative Exchange Council or payments received from the Heartland Institute for travel and accommodation.

Fairfax Media accepts that its reporting of those matters was factually inaccurate in a number of respects and that the allegations regarding Senator Bernardi were unfounded.

We retract those allegations and apologise to Senator Bernardi for the distress and damage caused by the articles.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/apolo ... z2QKrPM9kU

[Roxy the Rat Girl]

He's still a wanker!

[Jimmy_041]

[mighty_tiger_79]

the time is almost upon us where she is just about to be given the big boot up the ass