A Sorry Saga, or the Saga of Sorry?

[am Bays]

Rudd's speech and the events of this morning will go down as one of the most momentous days in our history.

Decency has come to the Parliament after the mean, petty, small-minded attitudes of recent times.

Hats off to Rudd pity he said it 10 years after our previous Prime Minister said this:

However, let me make this clear. Personally, I feel deep sorrow for those of my fellow Australians who suffered injustices under the practices of past generations towards indigenous people. Equally, I am sorry for the hurt and trauma many people here today may continue to feel as a consequence of those practices.

Australian National Conference for Reconcilliation Dec 1997

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/special/rsjproject/rsjlibrary/car/arc/speeches/opening/howard.htm

Hopefully the Rudd Govt now puts its words into actions like the previous government did, I say this after speaking to my brother tonight who has been down at Apatula (Finke) talking to the men on the problems of porn, how it is contrary to law and what it does to young indiginous women...

A program initially funded by Mal Brough with his practical attempt to make communities safer and healthier, a program only opposed by some indiginous groups (Central Land Council) because of their loyalty to the ALP (Warren Snowden Member for Lingiari is a former CE of the CLC)

R&B I respect your views but sweepiing generalisations like this:

Decency has come to the Parliament after the mean, petty, small-minded attitudes of recent times

Do you no credit.

[JK]

Wash your mouth out - don't you know only whitefellas do bad things for racist motives - and even if others do it is justifiable.......

I have seen two people recently whose life story included being repeatedly bashed in childhood by older aboriginal children because they were white. One said she had 3 fingers broken in one incident when she was 8. [The city socialists only see one side of the wrongs.]

Gee the us Whiteys have had it tough all these years.I am pretty sure one side has copped a hell of a lot more than the other lot since 1788 .

That doesn't justify any violence really... unless you agree with me above!?

I think it was Mahatma Ghandi once said "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" ... I guess each and everyone of us has to let go of any beliefs or grievances we've had in the past and move on.

There are good folk and cnuts in the world unfortunately, and the colour of an individual's skin or their race, shouldn't be the factor that determines which of those they are.

[devilsadvocate]

And before you jump down my throat in indignation at least I've gone and lived up there and tried to make a difference rather than living comfortably in my "dingy little office" (apologies to the Banjo) tut tutting at what happened 50 years ago....

My wife worked (Radiographer) in Urnabella (spelling?) for a short period in healthcare. The problems she faced was not lack of government officials and programs trying to make a difference because that's why she was there.

The problem was the lack of the indigenous people wanting to help themselves. A woman who had been in a fight had her arm broken in 5 pieces, but was happy to walk around for around a week before finally (begrudgingly) accepting treatment. She was x rayed, treated as best possible without surgery and had her arm put in a cast. The following day, she was spotted having cut the cast off.

I could go on.

Who know's what the solution is, but it isn't lack of wanting to help in some situations, as help is at hand.

[am Bays]

Good post DA, your post highlights the issue in a nutshell yongu people living in a balanda system i.e the clash of cultures.

It has to be said both sides of politics have pumped an enormous amount of dollars into indiginous health, education and housing over the last 40 years. Both sides have done it in an open way trying to engage the aboriginal communities to self determine where they think the money should be best spent, so it is not for lack of trying.

if anyone can work out how you can solve the clash of cultures and values when it comes to use of resources and family well you might have a chance of solving the issues.

I freely admit it beats me, what i do know is that as I type kids under the age of 10 are wondering the community of Mutujulu (Ayers Rock) sniffing petrol.....

[devilsadvocate]

I freely admit it beats me, what i do know is that as I type kids under the age of 10 are wondering the community of Mutujulu (Ayers Rock) sniffing petrol.....

It's a tragic situation. One that as noted, throwing a stack of cash at isn't going to solve.

The government forking out huge sums in compensation will probably only make problems like the above worse.

[redandblack]

TM, that wasn't a 'sweeping generalisation', it was a opinion.

You'll see lots of them on this topic, even some from you.

This is an apology to those who were taken from their families. It's not about aboriginal issues, that's a separate topic.

I also wonder whether those who oppose this apology so strongly have asked themselves why they feel so strongly about it.

I'm happy to repeat my opinion that decency has come to the Parliament after the mean, petty, small-minded attitudes of recent times.

[mypaddock]

the aboriginals(not all, but a fair majority) just aren't geared to live in a white man's world, they have only embraced the bad parts of western society e.g. alcohol,drugs etc and this has ruined them. There is no solution to their problem and nor will there ever will be if they continue to live the life of a white man. Harsh, but please tell me I am wrong.
The story is the same in most parts of Africa- most indigenous people were never meant to live a white man's life, they just aren't genetically geared to do so. You can't live in a world with two sets of rules, one from your indigenous culture and one from your 'adopted culture', you must choose one and live by it- otherwise its just a recipe for disaster.

[am Bays]

TM, that wasn't a 'sweeping generalisation', it was a opinion.

You'll see lots of them on this topic, even some from you.

This is an apology to those who were taken from their families. It's not about aboriginal issues, that's a separate topic.

I also wonder whether those who oppose this apology so strongly have asked themselves why they feel so strongly about it.

I'm happy to repeat my opinion that decency has come to the Parliament after the mean, petty, small-minded attitudes of recent times.

Mate, I'm not against the apology per se because as I said on an earlier thread it was wrong. However what I'm agaisnt is the jingoistic rubbish coming out of hypocrits in this country who suddenly think that we have awoken from a great shame but will still carry on with their own innate racist behaviours and or wont do anything to understand the real issues confronting indiginous Australia.

Unfortunately you can't seperate the two.

BTW it is also my opinion that we have replaced fair and decent minded government with media spin and sound bites. Contrary to the tripe uttered by Keating in the last 24 months The previous govenment will go down as one of the great economic reform governments who goverened for all Australians that want choice (schooling, health etc) and who stood up to the low down dogs that wanted to smuggle people rather than go through the normal refugee process. Gee if the previous government was so indecent and anti immigration why do we have a Kilburn football thread raising the issue of African migrants.

I guess you and I will have to disagree on matters of opinion, than goodness we live in this great country that allows us to do so - A country that I am no more proud of today than I was a week ago.

[coyote ugly]

The ones in the parklands on 7 news last night were not interested, they said it was to late and it didnt mean a thing and wouldnt change anything. Looks like they arent going anywhere. BTW what a great tourist attraction they are!

[topsywaldron]

However what I'm agaisnt is the jingoistic rubbish coming out of hypocrits in this country who suddenly think that we have awoken from a great shame but will still carry on with their own innate racist behaviours

You're calling redandblack racist? Gutsy call I would have thought.

[Andy #24]

Hats off to Rudd pity he said it 10 years after our previous Prime Minister said this:

However, let me make this clear. Personally, I feel deep sorrow for those of my fellow Australians who suffered injustices under the practices of past generations towards indigenous people. Equally, I am sorry for the hurt and trauma many people here today may continue to feel as a consequence of those practices.

Australian National Conference for Reconcilliation Dec 1997

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/special/rsjproject/rsjlibrary/car/arc/speeches/opening/howard.htm

He also said he wouldn't apologise for something he our his government had not done. The above passage did not apologise but merely expressed Johnny's regret. This was not what was needed.

[Dogwatcher]

An editorial from a local paper:

YESTERDAY was a monumental day in our nation’s history.
Prime Minister Kevin Rudd took a major step towards the reconciliation of white Australia with our nation’s Indigenous people.
Mr Rudd’s apology, however, is only the start of bridging the wide gap that has developed since European settlement.
Parties on both sides still have a long way to go before reconciliation is considered complete.
Many will not agree with Mr Rudd’s apology, but it is an important step towards fixing many of the problems experienced by Aboriginal communities - issues we should all be concerned about.
Until health care improves to the point that Aboriginal lifespans are improved and until children no longer stumble into the abyss of drug or alcohol addiction out of a sense of helplessness, we cannot say this process has been completed.
Now that an apology has been issued, the Aboriginal community also needs to stand up and be willing to deal with the government and not wipe its hands of problems because they have been caused by others.
We face interesting times ahead.

[Psyber]

In the meantime: http://www.nt.gov.au/dcm/inquirysaac/

[Punk Rooster]

While it may be irrelevant to the issue of why we're saying sorry (which I agree with, stolen generation was terrible on our govts behalf), it's not going to make them hate us any less. Which over here they do.

I can immediately think of at least 4 mates that have received broken jaws from a gang of about 30 15-18 year olds who hate anyone with white skin......this has been going on for the last 20 years over here.....

very common where I grew up to, yet (we of white skin) are the racists....

Are the elders influencing them in a positive way, or are they passing on an attitude which was more relevant 30 years ago?
or is it about the poverty cycle they are stuck in, so the object of their hatred is anyone who's standard of living is better than theirs?

If "White Australia" has done their part to heal relations, what is the Aboriginal community doing to reciprocate? (unforunately this applies to the majority- the minority who do the right thing are to be respected)

[redden whites]

In the meantime: http://www.nt.gov.au/dcm/inquirysaac/

Gee I imagine the walls of Blackfriars and the Goodwood Rd Orphanage would like to contibute to a similar inquiry about the "white community"

[am Bays]

However what I'm agaisnt is the jingoistic rubbish coming out of hypocrits in this country who suddenly think that we have awoken from a great shame but will still carry on with their own innate racist behaviours

You're calling redandblack racist? Gutsy call I would have thought.

I've got news for you big boy....I'm calling more than just R&B racist, the reality is we all are. How many of us on this site would be prepared to give their standard of living to make a real change to the lives of many disadvantaged indiginous Australians?

I've said before many people on this site talk the talk but they don't walk the walk....

Hey in talking I happy for my aboriginal mates that an apology has been made as the stories are horific what happened to their grand-parents and parents. What I can't cop is white Australians with a new feeling of self worth and making sympbolic gestures of turning their back on Brendan Nelson who when through their own complicity and inaction have done less than what he has in the spirit of reconciliation.

[Psyber]

In the meantime: http://www.nt.gov.au/dcm/inquirysaac/

Gee I imagine the walls of Blackfriars and the Goodwood Rd Orphanage would like to contibute to a similar inquiry about the "white community"

I wouldn't dispute that. Somebody had a bit of a go at me for raising that issue in this context in another thread.
However, it is important to protect children wherever they are is it not?

[Wedgie]

Umm, *cough cough*

No further comment from me in this thread. Wedgie is right.

[Psyber]

Umm, *cough cough*

No further comment from me in this thread. Wedgie is right.

You're right Wedgie, I lost track of which thread was which!

[topsywaldron]

Let's imagine a scenario.

During the second World War the Japanese push on Australia was a great success, thanks to a sudden change of mind by the USA when, bowing to public pressure, they withdrew all of their troops from the Pacific. The raids on Darwin were merely the first step in an invasion by the Japanese that saw them sweep down Australia and successfully take Canberra and all of the capital cities. Immediately the Japanese instituted many changes to what had been considered Australian society, no English spoken, daily homages to the Emperor, no shoes were allowed inside - that kind of thing. In addition to this the Japanese started an ambitious program of breeding out White Anglo Saxon characteristics from the population by instituting breeding controls, re-education centres and taking away what babies are born to white parents. Fifty years on the white Anglo Saxon male in Australia is a sorry sight, those that remain are dispossessed of their country and treated like dirt by the Japanese wherever they go.

In this scenario would I have an issue with the Japanese? You bet.