by Gozu » Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:35 pm
by McAlmanac » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:22 pm
by dedja » Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:37 pm
McAlmanac wrote:I thought Barrie Cassidy was going to tell him where to get off on last Sunday's Insiders.
by GWW » Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:47 pm
by dedja » Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:17 am
by Gozu » Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:18 pm
by Squawk » Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:27 pm
by Gozu » Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:42 pm
by fish » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:54 pm
by Psyber » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:32 am
I haven't bothered to read the Bolt article, as I find him tedious in style, but the problem with "the hottest year on record" is that most climate records only go back to about 1890 which is almost yesterday in historical terms. The climate should be warming up from then because of the cooling that occurred between the early to mid 12th centuries and the mid 19th according to historical documents.fish wrote:Nice one Gozu that just demonstrates how the climate change deniers seem to make it up as they go along. When we experience the hottest year on record they call it "natural climate variation" but if there is a cold spell then it's "proof that climate change is not happening".Gozu wrote:Andrew Bolt humiliated again:
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/20 ... hip-media/
by mick » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:58 am
Psyber wrote:I haven't bothered to read the Bolt article, as I find him tedious in style, but the problem with "the hottest year on record" is that most climate records only go back to about 1890 which is almost yesterday in historical terms. The climate should be warming up from then because of the cooling that occurred between the early to mid 12th centuries and the mid 19th according to historical documents.fish wrote:Nice one Gozu that just demonstrates how the climate change deniers seem to make it up as they go along. When we experience the hottest year on record they call it "natural climate variation" but if there is a cold spell then it's "proof that climate change is not happening".Gozu wrote:Andrew Bolt humiliated again:
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/20 ... hip-media/
[The cooling is recorded as beginning with the advancing ice ended the Viking colonies in Greenland between 1100AD and 1150AD , and as peaking during the 18th century when the Thames is recorded as freezing over several times.]
by Jimmy_041 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:12 am
by fish » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:14 am
mick wrote:Psyber wrote:I haven't bothered to read the Bolt article, as I find him tedious in style, but the problem with "the hottest year on record" is that most climate records only go back to about 1890 which is almost yesterday in historical terms. The climate should be warming up from then because of the cooling that occurred between the early to mid 12th centuries and the mid 19th according to historical documents.fish wrote:Nice one Gozu that just demonstrates how the climate change deniers seem to make it up as they go along. When we experience the hottest year on record they call it "natural climate variation" but if there is a cold spell then it's "proof that climate change is not happening".Gozu wrote:Andrew Bolt humiliated again:
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/20 ... hip-media/
[The cooling is recorded as beginning with the advancing ice ended the Viking colonies in Greenland between 1100AD and 1150AD , and as peaking during the 18th century when the Thames is recorded as freezing over several times.]
I am still somewhat sceptical on the human effects on climate change, unfortunately there is much mis-information on both sides. Ideally an extra 50 - 100 years of data would clarify the situation, but do we take the gamble? Certainly as you say in the past there have been dramatic variations in the relatively recent geologic past, as I recall didn't the Vikings refer to Greenland as Vineland because they found vines growing there? This would suggest Greenland was a lot warmer around 1000 AD
by Psyber » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:48 am
by mick » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:36 am
fish wrote:Scientists have attributed the warming during the medieval period to an increase in volcanic activity and solar forcing during that period, phenomena that are not occuring to the same extent now. The phenomenon that IS occuring now is a dramatic buildup of greenhouse gasses due to the burning of fossil fuels and changes in land use - this is what the overwhelming majority of climatologists and earth scientists blame on the current warming (warming which Mr. Bolt is desperately and sneakily trying to say isn't happening)
Thankfully governments and policy makers have accepted the clear scientific conclusion on human induced climate change and are now concentrating on mitigation and adaptation.
by fish » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:39 pm
Psyber wrote:Previous to the medieval period there are also historical records of the Romans growing vines in what became Yorkshire about 200 AD..
Are there records of increased volcanic activity then?
Apropos solar forcing - look at these cycles and where we are now in them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles
http://muller.lbl.gov/papers/lbl-35665.html
And as for CO2 levels - look at these cycles...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_core
However, I do agree we should not gamble, and we should clean up our act..
In my opinion, this is best achieved by moving to safe Thorium fusion power and hydrogen fuel for cars.
Solar systems have not convinced me that can deliver adequate reliable power, nor that they are as "green" when you include the environmental costs of their manufacture.
Diesel and bio-diesel fumes contain potential cancer causing agents, as well as other nasty by-products of incomplete oxidation.
by fish » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:42 pm
mick wrote:You misunderstood me, although I am skeptical, I think it is too great a risk to ignore the "evidence" of a mere 150 years of accurate records to do nothing. Unfortunately I think the horse has bolted, nothing worthwhile will be achieved unless the big polluters like the US, India and China etc. do something dramatic. Ther's about as much chance of that happening as having Mr Bolt write a complementary piece about the ALP.
by Psyber » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:08 pm
I agree with you both in general about the pollution issue too, regardless of whether any climate change occurring is humanity caused.fish wrote:mick wrote:You misunderstood me, although I am skeptical, I think it is too great a risk to ignore the "evidence" of a mere 150 years of accurate records to do nothing. Unfortunately I think the horse has bolted, nothing worthwhile will be achieved unless the big polluters like the US, India and China etc. do something dramatic. Ther's about as much chance of that happening as having Mr Bolt write a complementary piece about the ALP.
Agreed mick!
by fish » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:38 pm
Psyber wrote:I am not a climate scientist.
by Jimmy_041 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:50 pm
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