The final cost of Labor's carbon tax......

[Drop Bear]

just another tax we have pay, that won't benefit anybody but governments and corporations.

[fish]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/national/pms-carbon-tax-to-cost-households-1660-a-week-treasury-figures-show/story-e6frea8c-1226032224436

Well, keep throwing the pennies in the jar for the year.

Im sure Labor voters would even question this.....poor form Gillard and co.

Southee to claim that these figures represent the "final cost" of the proposed carbon tax is absolute rubbish.

As redandblack has pointed out, the carbon price has not been decided yet and the compensation has not yet been factored in. Furthermore, the cost savings that people can make by reducing their consumption of carbon intensive products is also not included - this saving will vary from person to person.

You undermine your credibility when you need to resort to such deceitful headlines to get your point across about the carbon tax.

[fish]

Dog_ger there are so many errors in your post I hardly know where to start. So I'll start from the beginning:

Does anyone think that this tax will benefit anyone but the political superannuation fund?

Incorrect. The money raised is likely to be used to compensate low income earners, to protect export exposed industries and to invest in low carbon technologies.

It sure isn't going to save the planet on a world scale, from climate change.

I find this comment very strange from someone who has said elsewhere that climate change "is a lot of carp". Sure, Australians cannot save the world on our own but if we can act to reduce our share of greenhouse gas emissions that is a good place to start.

The poluters will go off shore to a country like china.

I am really struggling to understand how our coal fired power stations are going to go to China? Or our fossil fuel powered cars, trucks etc.

Where there is no such tax.

Wrong again - China already has an effective carbon tax on it’s electricity sector and is reported to be planning to introduce some sort of carbon trading scheme in 2012.

Like every other manufacturing industry has/is doing.

This is about the only valid point you have. However I’d be very surprised if export exposed industries are not given some assistance or exemptions as part of the carbon tax package. Until there is an international carbon trading scheme these industries will need to be protected in some way.

The final cost will be financial hardship and job losses.

It is estimated that the cost of action on climate change will be less than the cost of inaction. Climate change is predicted to bring more extreme weather events, bushfires, coastal flooding etc, all of which will cost us bucketloads. Not to mention crop failures, an increase in diseases, droughts and the like. As for job losses it is predicted that job losses in carbon intensive industries will be made up by job gains in low emission technologies.

[Dog_ger]

Fish, do you live with mum and dad..?

[The Sleeping Giant]

It is estimated that the cost of action on climate change will be less than the cost of inaction. Climate change is predicted to bring more extreme weather events, bushfires, coastal flooding etc, all of which will cost us bucketloads. Not to mention crop failures, an increase in diseases, droughts and the like. As for job losses it is predicted that job losses in carbon intensive industries will be made up by job gains in low emission technologies.

Estimated. Predicted. But no real facts.

I agree something needs to be done in regard to pollution, especially air and water, but save us the "hippy scare mongering".

[fish]

It is estimated that the cost of action on climate change will be less than the cost of inaction. Climate change is predicted to bring more extreme weather events, bushfires, coastal flooding etc, all of which will cost us bucketloads. Not to mention crop failures, an increase in diseases, droughts and the like. As for job losses it is predicted that job losses in carbon intensive industries will be made up by job gains in low emission technologies.

Estimated. Predicted. But no real facts.

I agree something needs to be done in regard to pollution, especially air and water, but save us the "hippy scare mongering".

How about asking Dog_ger to provide some facts to back up his statements?

[The Sleeping Giant]

Won't get too many facts out of Dog_ger. How about you supply some facts.

[Dog_ger]

It is estimated that the cost of action on climate change will be less than the cost of inaction. Climate change is predicted to bring more extreme weather events, bushfires, coastal flooding etc, all of which will cost us bucketloads. Not to mention crop failures, an increase in diseases, droughts and the like. As for job losses it is predicted that job losses in carbon intensive industries will be made up by job gains in low emission technologies.

Estimated. Predicted. But no real facts.

I agree something needs to be done in regard to pollution, especially air and water, but save us the "hippy scare mongering".

How about asking Dog_ger to provide some facts to back up his statements?

There are no facts. "Save the Murray Fund" What happened to the Billions..? Where has it gone..?

Someone is lying to us all.

"Save the Murray fund" still exists.

Will it ever stop?

People in rooms are plotting to somehow think of a tax so no-one will complain.

Wake up.

The governments of Australia have mis-managed the taxes for years. When does it stop?

[fish]

Won't get too many facts out of Dog_ger.

Nah I didn't think so.

How about you supply some facts.

Yep will do - give me a fews days though I have a busy weekend with my kids...

[Dog_ger]

Maybe you should think of your kids and how they are going to afford a house without being over taxed fish.

Because they are only going to work to pay their taxes my good friend and if we don't stand up now....

[southee]

Maybe you should think of your kids and how they are going to afford a house without being over taxed fish.

Because they are only going to work to pay their taxes my good friend and if we don't stand up now....

Spot on Dog_ger....I fear the future for my little one.

[Leaping Lindner]

Maybe you should think of your kids and how they are going to afford a house without being over taxed fish.

Because they are only going to work to pay their taxes my good friend and if we don't stand up now....

Spot on Dog_ger....I fear the future for my little one.

And what sort of planet are your kids going to inherit if our generation don't take some real action on climate change?

[mick]

Maybe you should think of your kids and how they are going to afford a house without being over taxed fish.

Because they are only going to work to pay their taxes my good friend and if we don't stand up now....

Spot on Dog_ger....I fear the future for my little one.

And what sort of planet are your kids going to inherit if our generation don't take some real action on climate change?

Sadly I agree, but we are probably 50 years too late to do anything meaningful, when I was a first year uni student in 1973 our chemistry lecturer a guy called Prof John Bockris, predicted the sort of greenhouse driven weather patterns that are starting to emerge now and that governments should have been preparing then (in the 1970s!) for changes. Sadly the horse has bolted. The best thing our children can do is adapt, they'll have to.

[Q.]

Part of that adaptation is moving away from using finite resources to generate energy into developing efficient methods of harnessing renewable energy.

Of course, the global power elite is inextricably linked with control of finite resources and that shift of reliance is against their best short-term interests.

"We may face a scorched and lifeless earth, but they're accountable to their shareholders first."

[Leaping Lindner]

Part of that adaptation is moving away from using finite resources to generate energy into developing efficient methods of harnessing renewable energy.

Of course, the global power elite is inextricably linked with control of finite resources and that shift of reliance is against their best short-term interests.

"We may face a scorched and lifeless earth, but they're accountable to their shareholders first."

When all the trees have been cut down.
When all the animals have been hunted.
When all the waters are polluted.
When all the air is unsafe to breathe......only then will you discover you cannot eat money.
Cree (Native American)Prophecy

[Psyber]

Part of that adaptation is moving away from using finite resources to generate energy into developing efficient methods of harnessing renewable energy.
Of course, the global power elite is inextricably linked with control of finite resources and that shift of reliance is against their best short-term interests.
"We may face a scorched and lifeless earth, but they're accountable to their shareholders first."

The only method that may produce sufficient energy I ever came across was the L5 solar energy project which was going ahead as a joint project with the USSR when Jimmy Carter was US president.
They were already training joint Russian-American crews, but it was abandoned for "Star Wars" under his successor Ronnie Reagan.
It is hard for solar energy to work efficiently under our atmosphere and wind is not reliable for base load.
*We also don't seem to have, here in Oz, sources of geothermal energy anywhere near the water we need for steam generation from it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Power_Satellite

* I'm not absolutely sure of that and am happy to be corrected by anyone with the geological knowledge.

[fish]

Maybe you should think of your kids and how they are going to afford a house without being over taxed fish.

Because they are only going to work to pay their taxes my good friend and if we don't stand up now....

Spot on Dog_ger....I fear the future for my little one.

And what sort of planet are your kids going to inherit if our generation don't take some real action on climate change?

And I dare say your kids will be pretty pissed off with you if they ever find out you were spreading lies and misinformation about the carbon tax too...

[The Sleeping Giant]

Maybe you should think of your kids and how they are going to afford a house without being over taxed fish.

Because they are only going to work to pay their taxes my good friend and if we don't stand up now....

Spot on Dog_ger....I fear the future for my little one.

And what sort of planet are your kids going to inherit if our generation don't take some real action on climate change?

And I dare say your kids will be pretty pissed off with you if they ever find out you were spreading lies and misinformation about the carbon tax too...

Practice what you preach.

[fish]

Fair enough TSG - lets start with southees title for this thread.

The final cost of Labor's carbon tax......

As redandblack has pointed out, the carbon price has not been decided yet and the compensation has not yet been factored in. Furthermore, the cost savings that people can make by reducing their consumption of carbon intensive products is also not included - this saving will vary from person to person.

I believe it is universally understood that there will be some sort of compensation introduced as part of the carbon tax package. Click here for a potted history of the Australian carbon tax, and note the following passage:

On February 24, 2011, Australian Federal government announced a framework to implement a Carbon Tax from July 1, 2012. It is set to be implemented over 3-5 year period upon which it will switch to a cap and trade system. The price has not been set but various proposals have been discussed in the recent past, such as $23/t and $26/t. The announcement came after an agreement between the Federal Labor government, the Greens and two Independent MPs and included commitments to ensure all funds collected go back to homes and businesses to assist in the transition to renewables.

As far as I'm aware the carbon price has still not been announced and nor has the compensation and other details.

And my comment about the cost savings that people can make by reducing their consumption of carbon intensive products is simple mathematics. For example if your electricity bill goes up by $55 as a result of the carbon tax but you then reduce your electricity usage then you effectively avoid paying some or all of the tax.

So southees title for the thread was, at best, misleading and, at worst, an outright lie. I believe my response was spot-on.

I'll move onto Dog_gers post next time I have a moment to spare...

[Sojourner]

Labor / Gillard are PROMISING that those on low incomes wont be worse off under a Carbon Tax and people actually believe it?......

This is the same Prime Minister that said there would be NO Carbon Tax in the first place?

Why should anyone even remotely accept that her statement about people being on low income not being worse off would have any truth at all in it?

What else are they lying about?