Question - without notice

[Bat Pad]

Still here, definitely yes.

Both have moved a lot to the right.

Is that an opinion or a fact? Any evidence?

http://www.politicalcompass.org/aus2010

Swap over the authorotarian and libertarian and you would be closer to the truth, but that is still garbage.

[Bat Pad]

To answer your question Booney, politics for me is the pursuit of a better world.

Politics is the coffee we drink, the clothes we wear, the people we love and the life we live.
You can say you just float along, but there is politics behind every choice you make. Everybody makes some sort of impact, whether you realise it or not.

I personally don't need the government to help me decide on any of these things.

[Q.]

Swap over the authorotarian and libertarian and you would be closer to the truth, but that is still garbage.

Why is it garbage?

[Q.]

To answer your question Booney, politics for me is the pursuit of a better world.

Politics is the coffee we drink, the clothes we wear, the people we love and the life we live.
You can say you just float along, but there is politics behind every choice you make. Everybody makes some sort of impact, whether you realise it or not.

I personally don't need the government to help me decide on any of these things.

You've missed the point. Politics isn't only about governance.

[Booney]

So how do you people think you influence goverments and their policies?

Do you truly believe leaders "listen to the people" ?

[Psyber]

Swap over the authoritarian and libertarian and you would be closer to the truth, but that is still garbage.

Why is it garbage?

What makes it potentially garbage is that the ratings have to be subjective - there is no valid and objective way of measuring such things that I have ever seen.
I say "potentially" is because the method of rating authoritarianism has not been spelled out for examination.

Subjectively, both the Greens and the ALP come over to me as more authoritarian than the Liberals.
That was why I joined the Liberals despite having voted for Gough Whitlam's ideals earlier in my life.
I'm not sure about the Nationals - they were conservative but fairly liberal when they were the Country Party, then went very conservative and rather authoritarian as the Nationals.
I'm not sure where they are now as they seem to have given up any independent stance.

PS: I did its test and here is my result. How valid do you think it is based on my posts here?

[Psyber]

So how do you people think you influence goverments and their policies?
Do you truly believe leaders "listen to the people" ?

If enough voters pester enough local members and make them nervous, and enough of them to pester Ministers, then the Cabinet gets nervous enough to look at the issue.
Otherwise they press on with their dogma.

Submissions and petitions go to the bureaucracy to be lost, delayed, discounted, or dismantled.

[Q.]

So how do you people think you influence goverments and their policies?

Do you truly believe leaders "listen to the people" ?

Short answers, they mostly don't and no.

[Bat Pad]

Swap over the authorotarian and libertarian and you would be closer to the truth, but that is still garbage.

Why is it garbage?

Because it has no point of reference. Someones just made it up. To say that the Greens are libertarian and the other parties is also totally arse backwards.

[Booney]

So how do you people think you influence goverments and their policies?

Do you truly believe leaders "listen to the people" ?

Short answers, they mostly don't and no.

Now we are getting somewhere, and no, I dont have a graph to support my claim but I can knock one up* if required.

[Bat Pad]

To answer your question Booney, politics for me is the pursuit of a better world.

Politics is the coffee we drink, the clothes we wear, the people we love and the life we live.
You can say you just float along, but there is politics behind every choice you make. Everybody makes some sort of impact, whether you realise it or not.

I personally don't need the government to help me decide on any of these things.

You've missed the point. Politics isn't only about governance.

It should be in my opinion.

[Bat Pad]

So how do you people think you influence goverments and their policies?

Do you truly believe leaders "listen to the people" ?

They do listen, but sometimes rather cynically. They will listen to the issues people are willing to cast their vote on.

[Gingernuts]

I'm very much the same as you Booney. The last couple of elections I have chosen on the day pretty much. Unfortunately I have to say that it's not really out of choice though.

The main reason I find it so difficult to vote at the moment is that the political landscape here in Australia is incredibly underwelming. In the lead up of the last couple elections I have waited for the major parties to make a definitive case for my vote, and all I've got is a steady stream of smear, spin and negative politics.

All I wish is for a moderate party with the balls to give me some policy solutions to vote on. Just come out and say "here is what we're going to do about Climate Change, Welfare, Health, Education, Indigenous Issues, Immigration."

At the moment all we get is "we're going to give a few million to this, and a billion to that - and by the way the other mob sucks". Money is not a solution, and I'll make my own mind up about each party based on the facts thankyou.

I'm not conservative enough to vote for a party like Family First, but I disagree with too many of the Greens policies to vote for them. So I'm left with having a choice of beige vs beige. I really value my democratic right to vote, but what do I do when no one deserves it? It's a bloody joke really.

[Booney]

Well put Fanta Pants.

I would fight for my right to vote. I'd also fight to have someone worth voting for.

My feelings about voting for Independants,whom I'd like to back as they often have more "substance" about them is that the minute a major party is willing to give them the slightest "win" in terms of policy they are willing to slut themselves around without so much as a second thought.

What does the cynic in me say? Thats because they are looking after themselves first and not Joe Public.

It truly is an uninspiring landscape and I think the correspondents in here who love being left, right, ALP or Liberal will be a thing of the past as the next generation ( like my lad who is 15 ) will not give two rats about who is leader.

Thats a worry.

[redandblack]

Gingernuts, one of the problems with 'deciding on the day' is that you're possibly then deciding only on what you see or hear reported.

It won't surprise you that I've long berated the political media for the poor job they do.

For example, I recently listened to the PM give an address at the Press Club, followed by many questions, all of which she gave detailed answers to.

One question invited her to talk about her journey in politics and her voice quavered for a few seconds. The only reporting of the whole event was along the lines of:

"Gillard in tears at Press Club".

That was probably all the public knew about the day.

I'm sure the same happens to Liberal politicians also.

Second example: A similar scenario, but she mixed up the phrase 'walk and chew gum at the same time". No prizes for guessing what was the only thing reported.

Now I'll get partisan: I understand why you say you only get negativity from politicians, but the government has taken action on climate change (it will probably see them kicked out), is in the middle of the biggest infrastructure program (NBN) since the Snowy Mountains Scheme, have just finalised a new Health deal with the States and are acting on a National Disability Insurance scheme and Aged Care reform. This gets very little positive coverage. (I acknowledge that others will disagree, no problem with that).

The Government certainly has made some poor decisions and the publicity for those has been enormous, with the Murdoch media leading the charge.

I'm not surprised people are disenchanted with politics and politicians, given the one-sided nature of so-called political reporting in Australia.

That's why I (and other posters here) read very widely so that we can get some facts about what's going on.

Finally, I have to say how refreshing this topic has been, so thanks to Booney for starting it and all those who have contributed so far.

[The Sleeping Giant]

Swap over the authorotarian and libertarian and you would be closer to the truth, but that is still garbage.

Why is it garbage?

The Greens are to close to the right for starters.

[Gingernuts]

Some fair points there R&B.

I don't think all of the mis-information can be blamed on News Ltd however.

I think the politicians themselves need to re-evaluate their communication styles. I'm sick of the trend of the past decade or so for politicians to work to a script, sticking to key words and phrases and repeating them over and over in attempt to validate their stance to the masses.

To me it assumes a level of stupidity that is bordering on offensive. A good example is our ex pm Kevin Rudd. He most certainly appealed to me well before the 2007 election in which I cast my vote for him. Once he gained office however, he started to role out these key phrases over and over, whilst never conveying anything with any tangible content or meaning. In the space of 12 months I went from viewing/listening to him intently whenever he had a media spot, to changing the channel before he even started talking because he irritated me that much.

When journalists are hit with wave after wave of carefully scripted remarks, no wonder they end up sensationalising everything. How else are they going to write anything remotely appealing to the reader?

I'm sick of the spin. Just get back to basics and tell it like it is FFS.

[redandblack]

I agree with that, mate.

It's really frustrating, but I wonder whether it's caused to some extent by the 'gotcha' style of reporting that I mentioned. Because there is such shallow reporting now, politicians know they need to come up with one-liners and stick to the script.

For example, many people thought that Kerry O'Brien was biased, but the one thing was that he knew enough to call out politicians he was interviewing if they talked nonsense. Now, they can say almost anything without challenge, as the interviewers are often either too dumb to know, or are partisan and won't embarrass them.

I also agree that News Ltd aren't the only ones to blame, but I suppose I've seen the different styles of political reporting over the years and despair at how poor it is now. Take the climate change debate. Instead of intelligent debate about the best path to take, we get a debate which sidelines the science and upgrades a weird cast of characters to the same level. The carbon tax debate is debased into whether Whyalla will disappear and whether business in Australia will be destroyed, rather than on whether it's the right approach and if not, what is better.

I also suppose that whatever your opinion of politicians is, there is no doubt that they are responsible for the direction of our country and every law that Parliament passes.

That's just one reason why I'm happy to take a close interest and I completely understand what Quichey meant when he said politics pervades our lives.

However, many people don't take that path and that's normal too.

[scoob]

Some fair points there R&B.

I don't think all of the mis-information can be blamed on News Ltd however.

I think the politicians themselves need to re-evaluate their communication styles. I'm sick of the trend of the past decade or so for politicians to work to a script, sticking to key words and phrases and repeating them over and over in attempt to validate their stance to the masses.

To me it assumes a level of stupidity that is bordering on offensive. A good example is our ex pm Kevin Rudd. He most certainly appealed to me well before the 2007 election in which I cast my vote for him. Once he gained office however, he started to role out these key phrases over and over, whilst never conveying anything with any tangible content or meaning. In the space of 12 months I went from viewing/listening to him intently whenever he had a media spot, to changing the channel before he even started talking because he irritated me that much.

When journalists are hit with wave after wave of carefully scripted remarks, no wonder they end up sensationalising everything. How else are they going to write anything remotely appealing to the reader?

I'm sick of the spin. Just get back to basics and tell it like it is FFS.

Good post - I agree - I now turn off as soon as I see any politician speaking - getting sick of the fake laughs, giggles, cries, pathetic jokes to divert attention and continuous one line grabs that will get a headline...

[redandblack]

I think your last few words echoes what I'm saying, scoob.

The question is whose fault is it?