Lib Senator guilty and not guilty

[Psyber]

The anecdote Gozu posted above suggests the person concerned may have had rather long term problems with the stability of her illness and her impulse control.
This may explain the decision to make a change of medication that was reported to be the reason for her recent burst of instability.
Hopefully the change will work and she will be stable in future.

Bipolar Disorder can usually be brought under control, but a fair bit of wisely guided trial and error may be necessary to find the right medication, or combination thereof, before it happens.
It takes a patient patient and a patient doctor to both persist in the process - often enough one or other gives up too soon.

[redandblack]

I've made no comment on this case at all, but it's interesting to see the different angle between this case and the case of Kevin Foley.

Both had been suffering depression. One has been convicted of assault, one has been assaulted without any warning, confirmed by video.

Yet many still blame Kevin Foley for being assaulted

[tipper]

I've made no comment on this case at all, but it's interesting to see the different angle between this case and the case of Kevin Foley.

Both had been suffering depression. One has been convicted of assault, one has been assaulted without any warning, confirmed by video.

Yet many still blame Kevin Foley for being assaulted

funny. i wasnt aware that Mrs (Ms? forgive my ignorance on her marital status...) has a history of assaulting people and or shoplifting. on the other hand Mr Foley has a history of "being in the wrong place at the wrong time" shall we say.

i promise you that if it turns out that Mrs (Ms?) Fisher has repeated her error ill get stuck into her too. Mr Foley repeatedly puts himself in dangerous situations, which result in him being assaulted (i was going to say alledgedly assaulted, but that isnt true, he has definately been assaulted at least once, just at the moment no one has been found guilty in court of being the perpetrator) he doesnt learn from his mistakes, simple as that. If Mrs (Ms ?) Fisher continues to assault others, and shoplift she can be lumped into the same basket.

on another note, the above does not mean i dont think she should remain in office. at the very least she shoud have stepped aside temporarily while her treatment was changed (as Psyber stated there are often issues when changing treatment) until she stabilised, and i believe that now, even though no conviction was recorded she should stand down. but it wont happen unless the Government put the pressure on, which i highly doubt. too many skeletons on both sides of the fence for anyone to start that, unfortunately.

[redandblack]

tipper, Kevin Foley was assaulted not long ago. There is clear video of it. He had no warning and the person responsible has just been found guilty of assault.

So Mr Foley has a history of 'being in the wrong place at the wrong time'?

Like going out at night in Adelaide?

I think your answer tends to confirm what I said about the two cases.

[tipper]

tipper, Kevin Foley was assaulted not long ago. There is clear video of it. He had no warning and the person responsible has just been found guilty of assault.

So Mr Foley has a history of 'being in the wrong place at the wrong time'?

Like going out at night in Adelaide?

I think your answer tends to confirm what I said about the two cases.

sorry, i missed the guilty verdict. my apologies. out of curiosity, do you know what the penalty is? if that has been decided yet. (i actually dont know how i missed the verdict, must have had a blonde moment....) i would expect a pretty hefty sentence (nothing to do with who the victim is, though, it wasnt a nice incident to watch on the video)

i never said it was entirely his fault, but i think he needs to question his judgement when he decides it is a good idea to go out drinking in town. if i had been assaulted three times going out on the town i dont think i would be doing that any more. i also suggest that upon my third report to the police of me being assaulted that they might, quite rightly, suggest that i modify my behaviour to minimise the re occurence.

it also isnt just going out at night in adelaide. it is him going out at night in adelaide. i go into town on a semi regular basis. i drink alcohol, quite a lot of it on occasions. i have never once been assaulted in town or anywhere else (nor have i ever assaulted anyone else). how is my experience different to Mr Foley's? why is he so unlucky that when he does it he gets assaulted, but i am not? you honestly think that he does not need to modify his behaviour in any way to prevent that from happening again? not even a little bit? he should just behave in the same way he currently does, and do all the same things, and it will just magically stop?

meanwhile, i will repeat what i have said before, i dont think it is right that he has been assaulted, but unfortunately this is the world we live in. however just complaining about it, or wishing for it will not magically change adelaide into the utopian society that lets us all leave our houses unlocked, and our car windows down with the keys in the ignition when we park it. the reality is there are some nasty people in this world, that ruin it for the rest of us. if we dont take sensible precautions to look after ourselves and our property we will pay the penalty. it isnt right but that is the way it is.

meanwhile, you missed the bit where i said that Mrs Fisher should stand down as senator. i never once suggested that Mr Foley should do likewise, just that he should take some responsibility for the situations he places himself in. that is certainly a different angle isnt it?

[redandblack]

No worries, mate, good points there.

[CK]

I've made no comment on this case at all, but it's interesting to see the different angle between this case and the case of Kevin Foley.

Both had been suffering depression. One has been convicted of assault, one has been assaulted without any warning, confirmed by video.

Yet many still blame Kevin Foley for being assaulted

Glad to see someone clearly make a point that appears to have been nearly completely missed in all of this. For some reason, there seems a percentage of the community that feel that, somehow, Kevin Foley deserved what he got because he has a "history" - yet not one part of that video seems to suggest any provocation on his part to "deserve" what he got.

[Jimmy_041]

Maybe we should get a video of him 24/7................

[Jimmy_041]

and I think M-J Fisher is yet to be dealt with

Her speech after Court reminded me of John Bannon and I think she will / should be dealt with in the same manner

[Psyber]

My inside ALP sources indicate that Foley can be "provocative" in his manner, and what he says, especially after a few drinks.
But I agree that provocativeness does not justify anyone actually assaulting him.
However, it seems he does not learn, or chooses not to modify his behaviour.
As he has attributed his problems to depression in the past, perhaps he needs to look at treatment options too..

I agree that perhaps politicians should be subject to fitness assessments, given the importance of the decisions they may make.
But I can't see such legislation getting support from many of them - they tend not to want constraints on themselves..

[Jimmy_041]

As you would probably attest Psyber, some people's general demeanour can be provocative especially after a few drinks.
IMO, Foley gets away with being the bully boy in Parliament and then tries to do the same thing in real life.
Different rules in RL

On a side note, just walked past Mike Rann in the street.
He's looking very stooped and old.
No more "flirtatious relationships" for him me thinks

[redandblack]

Did you see the video of Foley being assaulted, Jimmy?

[Jimmy_041]

Did you see the video of Foley being assaulted, Jimmy?

Yep

I've also seen his lordship out and about late at night

Plus our footy club once had an interesting experience with his attitude during a game

[redandblack]

Well, if you saw the video, it was a vicious attack without any warning.

The attacker has been found guilty of assault.

Unless you think it's OK to assault people who don't have the right attitude?

I think there's also the point that some people target public figures just because they're public figures.

In any event, the idea that it's Foley's own fault that he got assaulted is an interesting theory. Do we extend it to others with a similar attitude?

Open season on bad attitudes?

[CK]

Let's put a footy analogy to this.

The Gowans twins, fantastic footballers, are known for being provocative on the field, and nobody (including themselves) would deny this. As footy fans, we know this, accept it (wish they played for our team, for the other 8 team followers) and realise that is part of their makeup. To the best of our knowledge, they aren't suffering from depression or the like.

Does that, therefore, entitle some boofhead to see them out one night, and simply belt them, because they are "provocative in their behaviour" in their work environment, or because they are perceived as being provocative at times?

[Jimmy_041]

Well, if you saw the video, it was a vicious attack without any warning.

The attacker has been found guilty of assault.

Unless you think it's OK to assault people who don't have the right attitude?

I think there's also the point that some people target public figures just because they're public figures.

In any event, the idea that it's Foley's own fault that he got assaulted is an interesting theory. Do we extend it to others with a similar attitude?

Open season on bad attitudes?

I said I saw it so you obviously didn't read my post correctly
Where have I said it is OK to assault anyone?
You choose one incident which wasn't his fault to try to establish that he has done nothing to attract the attention he gets - that's a 7 yo attitude. Complaining about the one case of innocence when he hasn't been caught on other occasions.

You are correct though. With so many politicians getting assaulted these days, he's just one of the crowd that gets belted on a monthly basis

[redandblack]

'When he hasn't been caught on other occasions'???

Are you serious?

I'm glad you agree that he's innocent on this occasion, so what evidence do you have for assuming there are other occasions where he 'hasn't been caught'?

Presumably he's not only guilty because he has it coming to him when he's totally innocent, but he's guilty of having it coming to him on other occasions where he hasn't been caught

You don't condone the assault, but somehow it's still his fault he was assaulted.

CK, I like your analogy.

[Jimmy_041]

I have not said it is his fault he got assaulted
I said that on that occasion, it was proven as unprovoked - doesn't mean every other time someone's had a crack at him, he hasn't contributed to the problem or, God forbid, just walked away
Nice try R&B but dont twist my words to suit your own argument

My error - he's not provocative at all - he's just one of the thousand politicians that gets punched every month for no reason.

[Jimmy_041]

Let's put a footy analogy to this.

The Gowans twins, fantastic footballers, are known for being provocative on the field, and nobody (including themselves) would deny this. As footy fans, we know this, accept it (wish they played for our team, for the other 8 team followers) and realise that is part of their makeup. To the best of our knowledge, they aren't suffering from depression or the like.

Does that, therefore, entitle some boofhead to see them out one night, and simply belt them, because they are "provocative in their behaviour" in their work environment, or because they are perceived as being provocative at times?

Maybe the Gowans dont take that attitude off the field.
Or, maybe, if one of them did act like a twat when pi$$ed and got in a blue, he might think to himself that wasn't smart.
One thing for sure - if one of them kept getting into altercations whilst out, people would start to think maybe he might have to have a good think about it

I wonder why Pat Conlon doesn't seem to cop the same attention - maybe he's like the Gowans and leaves it on the field.
Or maybe Foley should just go and have a chat with Ricky Ponting.

Two former Test team-mates believe the incident in Sydney's infamous Kings Cross in January 1999, after Ponting was celebrating victory in a one-day international by engaging in a late-night drinking binge, was a marking point in the Tasmanian's career.

The ramifications were a black eye, a frenzy of front-page coverage, a $5000 suspended fine and a three-match ban from the limited-overs team.

"Maybe the best thing that happened to him was the scuffle in Kings Cross because he started to grow up after that," said Michael Slater, who was Test opener when Ponting made his debut in December 1995.

"Sometimes when something bad happens, it forces you to reassess and take stock and that's when the development process can be a quick one because you realise you have made a mistake. It's not until you have a bad time that you are forced to grow as a person to come out the other end.

"I'm sure he wishes it never happened, but I'm also sure that was a real turning point for him, and the reason why he's captain of the Australian cricket team now is because he's matured into this really steady, lovely human being."

One thing for sure - if I, as a 50 yo, enter a nightclub that is the domain of people between 20 - 35 years old, I'd be extremely careful what I did. Their rules apply - not mine. You may not like it, but that age group dont give a toss who you are

[GWW]

IMO, Foley gets away with being the bully boy in Parliament and then tries to do the same thing in real life.

Even in a court of law too, it seems.