Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two months

[bulldogproud2]

I thought the main issue was the people who run the boats encouraging people to risk their lives.
What they seem to be selling is the idea that getting here be any means would mean they get to stay.

Well, let us put it this way. The fact that they are willing to risk their lives to escape their persecution and threats to their life shows how much these people need to receive humane treatment. Even more reason to accept asylum seekers into Australia, is it not??

[smac]

Then why not stop in Malaysia and reduce the risk?

[bulldogproud2]

Then why not stop in Malaysia and reduce the risk?

Well, for one thing, because Malaysia is not a signatory to the United Nations Convention on Refugees, meaning that there is no guarantee of their treatment. However, despite that, Malaysia does have a lot more asylum seekers than Australia.. a lot, lot, lot more.

[Psyber]

I thought the main issue was the people who run the boats encouraging people to risk their lives.
What they seem to be selling is the idea that getting here be any means would mean they get to stay.

Well, let us put it this way. The fact that they are willing to risk their lives to escape their persecution and threats to their life shows how much these people need to receive humane treatment. Even more reason to accept asylum seekers into Australia, is it not??

It could just mean they are taking irrational and enormous risks looking for a mythical land of milk and honey somewhere over the horizon.
Surely, to be realistic, they have already passed through some relatively safe havens even before reaching Malaysia?..

[bulldogproud2]

I thought the main issue was the people who run the boats encouraging people to risk their lives.
What they seem to be selling is the idea that getting here be any means would mean they get to stay.

Well, let us put it this way. The fact that they are willing to risk their lives to escape their persecution and threats to their life shows how much these people need to receive humane treatment. Even more reason to accept asylum seekers into Australia, is it not??

It could just mean they are taking irrational and enormous risks looking for a mythical land of milk and honey somewhere over the horizon.
Surely, to be realistic, they have already passed through some relatively safe havens even before reaching Malaysia?..

To the best of my knowledge they would not pass through any country that is a signatory to the United Nations Convention on Refugees on their way to Malaysia.

[Psyber]

To the best of my knowledge they would not pass through any country that is a signatory to the United Nations Convention on Refugees on their way to Malaysia.

I'm not sure a country being a signatory really proves anything except that that country's pollies there want to enhance their niceness ranking on the world stage.
I certainly doubt that only countries that are signatories treat visiting foreigners decently.

[Bat Pad]

To the best of my knowledge they would not pass through any country that is a signatory to the United Nations Convention on Refugees on their way to Malaysia.

I'm not sure a country being a signatory really proves anything except that that country's pollies there want to enhance their niceness ranking on the world stage.
I certainly doubt that only countries that are signatories treat visiting foreigners decently.

China being a prime example

[straight talker]

JULIAR AND HER KRONY bunch will fix it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Psyber]

The new legislation the ALP has proposed, if it is as reported on radio this morning, will upset the pro-accepting-all-comers lobby.
Apparently even Tony Abbott thinks it is extreme, and strips away too many human rights..
I look forward to reading the details if it gets published before it gets buried.

[dedja]

The new legislation the ALP has proposed, if it is as reported on radio this morning, will upset the pro-accepting-all-comers lobby.
Apparently even Tony Abbott thinks it is extreme, and strips away too many human rights..
I look forward to reading the details if it gets published before it gets buried.

LOL, all Abbott cares about is if he can get some political mileage by all of a sudden pretending to shown concern about asylum seekers' rights ...

[Psyber]

The new legislation the ALP has proposed, if it is as reported on radio this morning, will upset the pro-accepting-all-comers lobby.
Apparently even Tony Abbott thinks it is extreme, and strips away too many human rights..
I look forward to reading the details if it gets published before it gets buried.

LOL, all Abbott cares about is if he can get some political mileage by all of a sudden pretending to shown concern about asylum seekers' rights ...

True enough I suspect.
I thought I'd covered that with "Apparently" in the context of quoting a radio news programme.
But I see now that it was more ambiguous as I thought at the time..

However, although I favour off-shore processing and reducing the incentive to come here by boat rather than by due process, I think there may be a valid point to the broader concern that the Ministerial powers in the ALP proposal are too extensive. I look forward to discovering what they actually are in due time.

[Gozu]

[fish]

58,000 illegal immigrants in Australia have arrived by plane

THERE are enough illegal immigrants living in Australia to fill a large regional city, and nearly all of these 58,400 people arrive by plane.

There are 13 times more illegal immigrants than there are asylum seekers in detention who have arrived by boat.

Refugee Council of Australia chief executive officer Paul Power said the figures helped put boat arrivals into context.

"The impact of boat arrivals on Australia's migration program is very small," he said.

"Political leaders continue to add to public fears about people arriving by boat but they make little or no effort to put the small number of asylum seekers entering Australia into any global context. Little attention is paid to the fact that so many asylum seekers who arrive by boat are found to have well-founded fears of persecution."

[Psyber]

My reading of that article was somewhat cursory, but it seemed to suggest the air arrivals issue was the overstaying of legitimate visas by people who had at least arrived with visas and documentation of their identity.
Many of them may be legitimate students or temporary workers who just don't want to leave, but will do so once caught up with.
Admittedly some of those who came by that route may have had forged papers.

The big issue with those arriving by boat appears to be that most have disposed of any papers and thus we have to check up on all of them in a way that takes a lot of time and costs.
So, it looks a bit like comparing apples and oranges.

[redandblack]

That's right, Psyber, but I would add that the people on boats are legal and the plane people overstaying their visas are illegal?

[Bat Pad]

That's right, Psyber, but I would add that the people on boats are legal and the plane people overstaying their visas are illegal?

I believe Unlawful Entry is the correct term initially, as they have entered Australia without a visa. If they then claim refugee status and seek refuge in Australia they become an Asylum Seeker while their claim is investigated.

As they are not yet immigrants they are obviously not illegal immigrants either.

But neither are they considered Refugees yet.

Unlawful Entry while they are on the boat, Asylum Seeker while they are detained(assuming they request asylum).

[redandblack]

Yes, BP and the plane arrival overstayers are definitely illegal.

So there are far more 'illegals' than asylum seekers, but there seems to be a concentration on the far smaller number of asylum seekers.

I wonder why that would be?

[dedja]

[Q.]

It is not unlawful to enter Australia without a visa for the purpose of seeking asylum.

[dedja]

maybe, but gee it's fun vilifying them because they're all radical islamic terrorists