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Postby therisingblues » Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:20 pm

Wedgie wrote:
therisingblues wrote:To expand a little further on my original post: part of Hanson's first platform was our own Aboriginal problem. As a nation we were trying to make amends to those people by simply throwing money at them, meanwhile they freely took the handouts, and learnt to do little for themselves, thus they became more dependant on the system we created and required greater handouts, and the cycle continued.

She couldn't be further from the truth there, I can tell you victims of the Stolen Generation still have not received one cent for having the government take them away from their roots and lives as well as throwing the rest of their lives into upheaval due to various issues that arose from the government doing so.
Ive worked for government in various social services for 18 years and I can tell you that aboriginals do not get any extra help, if anything they're disadvantaged as they're so intimidated by the whole set up and miss out on stuff they are eligible for.
This sort of crap that she sprouts really shits me off (and being of aboriginal descent and having my father as one of the stolen generation I feel I can talk on this issue).
There's hippies marching the streets to get a terrorist released from gaol but where were they when there were tens of thouands aboriginals imprisoned just for the sake of their skin? Smoking dope and doing jack shit.


Fair enough Wedgie, The Stolen Generation was one of the biggest crimes committed against the indigenous population of Australia in the past 100 years. Whatever services and funds that are available for Aborigines these days, it is money being mis-spent, IMO as their social and domestic problems continue and they continue to be under represented in professions like medicine where they'd be of great help to their own communities. (This was in most likeliness, worsened by the "upheaval" caused by the Stolen Generation policy). I don't have any answers, but there is a disproportionate amount of Aborigines living off welfare per head than the population in general, and it doesn't appear as if it is actually helping them at all.
Initially I thought Hanson was leading the nation to a different approach to this problem, by at least addressing it, as no one seemed to know what to do about it. History of the period shows that she lost the plot, was mis-informed and that she herself had no tangible answers either. On closer examination of her opening speech to parliament it would appear that she had some pretty skewed opinions about how the world worked from the start. There's enough stuff there to keep any healthy journalist happy for at least a year. As I remember from that point on she just got worse, and in hind-sight perhaps wasn't of any practical use save for creating a public forum where these things were thrashed out.
Perhaps the worse part about what she says is that she creates myths about how the system works, and usually polarises ethnic groups further in the process. Some people will see her as a media scapegoat, and within that group there will be others that will identify with her message even closer, viewing her as a martyr of the cause. I am not a member of any of her "target groups", but she shits me off just the same now I get the full picture.
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Postby Punk Rooster » Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:37 pm

therisingblues wrote:Fair enough Wedgie, The Stolen Generation was one of the biggest crimes committed against the indigenous population of Australia in the past 100 years.
I think you will find it's the biggest, by the length of the Flemington straight.
However, you can't unscramble scrambled eggs, & I think if people concentrated more on moving forward, Australia would be better off in general. (I can only offer a quick simplistic reply at present, which does not address all issues)
In a nutshell, it was wrong, we recognise it, but does that mean that we're required to put up with generation after generation of belligerent attitudes towards Government & those who are making the best for themselves?
Throwing money at the situation only eases a guilty conscience, & does nothing to address the problems/issues.
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Postby Coorong » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:08 pm

How was it wrong. we took kids out of relative poverty and gave them a chance. The disapointing thing is many went back.

Have any of you (and I know their are a couple of Aboriginal forum members) ever lived in their community. I did for the first 20 odd years of my life. Educated with them, lived with them, spoke thier language, drank with them, partied with them, worked with them, loved a few, fought a few too.

The true aboriginals like my mates dont call it the stolen generation, and a few of those "were stolen" too, but were thankful and have lived happy and positive lives.

This whole stolen generation thing has been developed by blue eyed lawyers who see it as a goldmine. Similar with the land right thing.

This argument is way off track. Pauline is accused of asking questions on the imigration policy. I ask similar questions. Travel to Melbourne and visit any suburb. Vietnamese who came here 2-5 years ago as refugees, now live in the best suburbs and drive merc'. Similar to many other nationalities.

Walk into any chemist shop, milk bar, service station, bakery, doctors surgery, newsagents, bottle shop etc in Melbourne or Sydney and you will wonder what country you are in.

some of you Adelaide people sometimes live in a sheltered part of the world, 30 minutes and twenty years from reality.... me thinks
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Postby redandblack » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:38 pm

Coorong wrote:How was it wrong. we took kids out of relative poverty and gave them a chance. The disapointing thing is many went back.

Have any of you (and I know their are a couple of Aboriginal forum members) ever lived in their community. I did for the first 20 odd years of my life. Educated with them, lived with them, spoke thier language, drank with them, partied with them, worked with them, loved a few, fought a few too.

The true aboriginals like my mates dont call it the stolen generation, and a few of those "were stolen" too, but were thankful and have lived happy and positive lives.

This whole stolen generation thing has been developed by blue eyed lawyers who see it as a goldmine. Similar with the land right thing.
This argument is way off track. Pauline is accused of asking questions on the imigration policy. I ask similar questions. Travel to Melbourne and visit any suburb. Vietnamese who came here 2-5 years ago as refugees, now live in the best suburbs and drive merc'. Similar to many other nationalities.

Walk into any chemist shop, milk bar, service station, bakery, doctors surgery, newsagents, bottle shop etc in Melbourne or Sydney and you will wonder what country you are in.some of you Adelaide people sometimes live in a sheltered part of the world, 30 minutes and twenty years from reality.... me thinks


This rubbish goes well with your comment about Kim Beazley's brother dying, Coorong.
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Postby Wedgie » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:46 pm

Coorong wrote:How was it wrong. we took kids out of relative poverty and gave them a chance. The disapointing thing is many went back.

Have any of you (and I know their are a couple of Aboriginal forum members) ever lived in their community. I did for the first 20 odd years of my life. Educated with them, lived with them, spoke thier language, drank with them, partied with them, worked with them, loved a few, fought a few too.

The true aboriginals like my mates dont call it the stolen generation, and a few of those "were stolen" too, but were thankful and have lived happy and positive lives.

This whole stolen generation thing has been developed by blue eyed lawyers who see it as a goldmine. Similar with the land right thing.

This argument is way off track. Pauline is accused of asking questions on the imigration policy. I ask similar questions. Travel to Melbourne and visit any suburb. Vietnamese who came here 2-5 years ago as refugees, now live in the best suburbs and drive merc'. Similar to many other nationalities.

Walk into any chemist shop, milk bar, service station, bakery, doctors surgery, newsagents, bottle shop etc in Melbourne or Sydney and you will wonder what country you are in.

some of you Adelaide people sometimes live in a sheltered part of the world, 30 minutes and twenty years from reality.... me thinks


Geezus mate, that's the biggest load of crap I've ever read on this site. My father wasn't in any poverty, he had a supportive family and would have lived a good life as did his half brothers end up doing. He wasn't taken anywhere because he was living in poverty, he was taken purely and simply because he was of aboriginal descent.
Tell my father to his face that the stolen generation was invented by lawyers when his mother died 3 weeks before he could get up to Darwin to meet her for the first time since being separated after living for over 50 years being confused as to who he truly was and where he came from. Just for the record he's in his late 60s and still driving cabs for a living, geez I'd like to thank you and other rednecks Coorong for making him so much better off. Would have been an awful life for him in Darwin living with the support of his family for all those years.

I'd also be interested as to know how exactly its a goldmine when not one cent has have been given to any of the stolen generation in compensation.
Someone's not living in reality mate and its you.
Even if they were living in poverty, by white man's standards they'd been living in poverty for 1000s of years but were quite happy, what right does a race that invaded this country have to put their standards on others.

You've lost the plot recently mate or have been conveying a false impression of what you're truly like. Yourself and Pauline would make a good couple. I just hope your opinions are spurred by ignorance as opposed to racism.

Anyway, Im off to kidnap every child who lives in a redneck family or has a family member in recript of Centrelink payments, going by your philosphy I'd be purely justified in doing that and I look forward to conveying my defence to the police and court. :roll:
Last edited by Wedgie on Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Leaping Lindner » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:55 pm

Coorong wrote:How was it wrong. we took kids out of relative poverty and gave them a chance. The disapointing thing is many went back.

Have any of you (and I know their are a couple of Aboriginal forum members) ever lived in their community. I did for the first 20 odd years of my life. Educated with them, lived with them, spoke thier language, drank with them, partied with them, worked with them, loved a few, fought a few too.

The true aboriginals like my mates dont call it the stolen generation, and a few of those "were stolen" too, but were thankful and have lived happy and positive lives.

This whole stolen generation thing has been developed by blue eyed lawyers who see it as a goldmine. Similar with the land right thing.

This argument is way off track. Pauline is accused of asking questions on the imigration policy. I ask similar questions. Travel to Melbourne and visit any suburb. Vietnamese who came here 2-5 years ago as refugees, now live in the best suburbs and drive merc'. Similar to many other nationalities.

Walk into any chemist shop, milk bar, service station, bakery, doctors surgery, newsagents, bottle shop etc in Melbourne or Sydney and you will wonder what country you are in.

some of you Adelaide people sometimes live in a sheltered part of the world, 30 minutes and twenty years from reality.... me thinks



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Postby Coorong » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:07 pm

Wedgie you talk of your father. ever visited the real area's like Raukin, or Hermansberg Mission or the hundreds of settlements through NT, WA or Qld. Get a grip boys coz you live in a sheltered society.

Two questions for you

(a) What is the fereral budget on Aboriginal affairs in Australia
(b) what is the average income of every Aboriginal (covers men women and children) in NT, when you take into account welfare AND mining rights.
Well (b) is a shit load more than you or I earn

Get a grip boys, open your eyes. As I said this is off topic, but you are entering territory you only read one side. a true lateral looks at both and forms opinion. I have lived both.
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Postby Dutchy » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:13 pm

Tell me, what is the average income of Aborigines in the NT?
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Postby Wedgie » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:16 pm

Coorong wrote:Wedgie you talk of your father. ever visited the real area's like Raukin, or Hermansberg Mission or the hundreds of settlements through NT, WA or Qld. Get a grip boys coz you live in a sheltered society.

Two questions for you

(a) What is the fereral budget on Aboriginal affairs in Australia
(b) what is the average income of every Aboriginal (covers men women and children) in NT, when you take into account welfare AND mining rights.
Well (b) is a shit load more than you or I earn

Get a grip boys, open your eyes. As I said this is off topic, but you are entering territory you only read one side. a true lateral looks at both and forms opinion. I have lived both.

I took about my father because you're telling me the Stolen Generation is a myth and I know my father pretty well and can tell you that its far from a myth.
Ive dealt with disadvantaged people in this stage since I was 18.
What has aboriginals in the NT got to do with Aboriginals as a whole?
It'd be like me saying South Australians are a lot better off than their NSW coutnerparts ifyou compare the average income of people who live in Prospect to those who live in Liverpool.
I honestly can't believe how ignorant (or racist) you are in your opinions, I expected a lot more from you.
Its lucky your kids are grown up mate otherwise I'd fly over to your place and take them away from you just to let you see how you feel. I'd sure as hell be giving them a better life so I'd be fully justified so you wouldn't be upset in the slightest.
I like how not only am I imagining that my father was apart of the stolen generation but now I live a sheltered life and I nor my father (not his family, nor the hundreds Ive talked to in my life )are "true" aboriginals.
Where the hell do you get off you ignorant racist prick?
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Postby am Bays » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:18 pm

Having grown up on Aboriginal land in the back blocks of the NT and spoken to many Australians (salt water mob and desert mob) who were removed from their parents and the children and grand children thta were removed. It is fair to say that most of of them are appreciative of the economic and education opportunities they were able to experience that made their lives in an economic sense much easier. The common comment is, "Hey that was what happened back then no point looking back or holding grudges, I wouldn't have had the career I've had or been able to provide for my kids if I didn't get that education"

However look into their eyes and there is a particular look that says they experienced many emotional hardships that they can't or don't want to explain (at least not to me any anyway). Plenty of documented evidence in the press recently of what has happened to wards of the state and British orphan's so to say some of that didn't happen to some individuals of indigenous decent would be head in the sand stuff.

So while they have gained on one hand they lost on the other and as a parent nothing could compensate for having a child taken away from you

So to be fair for every person who benefitted from the policy that existed 50 years ago it is fair to say that for everyone who beneffiteed there are those who are f***ed up.

Certainly a lot of my best mate's anger about the system can be traced to what happened to his Mum and Aunties...Mind you he know's how to make they system work for himself too......
Last edited by am Bays on Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Coorong » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:19 pm

LOL
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Postby Wedgie » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:20 pm

Coorong wrote:Walk into any chemist shop, milk bar, service station, bakery, doctors surgery, newsagents, bottle shop etc in Melbourne or Sydney and you will wonder what country you are in.

Don't assume that the rest of us have some sort of white supremist view of that Australians are all white.
Some of us are educated enough to know that its a multicultural society we live in in Australia.
I'd suggest you pack up and move to south in America (or perhaps far North Queensland) where you'd fit in a treat where you might find some who share your ideals.
Genuine question, what makes you feel that Asians, Muslims (or any other background) make you feel like you're not living in Australia and explain to what gives people from British descent more right to live in this country than those? Im geniunely curious on how an ignorant racist person feels, I find it quite fascinating as I thought dinosaurs like you had died out a long time ago.
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Postby Coorong » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:22 pm

Goodnight Wedgie.. Been a big day for you?
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Postby Wedgie » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:23 pm

1980 Tassie Medalist wrote:However look into their eyes and their is a particular look that says they experienced many emotional hardships that they can't or don't want to explain (at least not to me any anyway). Plenty of documented evidence in the press recently of what has happened to wards of the state and British orphan's so to say some of that didn't happen to some individuals of indigenous decent would be head in the sand stuff.

Exactly and well said, having seen that look in my old man's face for my entire life I know exactly what you're talking about.
I doubt its something we'd understand unless we were taken away from our parents or our kids were taken away from us. Sickens me just thinking about it.
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Postby Wedgie » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:25 pm

Coorong wrote:Goodnight Wedgie.. Been a big day for you?

Haven't had one drink today, usually don't drink on Sundays.
(And if that's what your insinuating I take further offence)
I can't believe you can further cheapen others LOLing at the discussion or suggesting it might have been a big day for me.
You're a very sad individual and Im glad we've seen the real side of you.
Must admit I was hoodwinked.
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Postby Coorong » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:25 pm

Sorry boys, cant continue with this conversation. Have to go and do the washing and ironing.
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Postby Wedgie » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:27 pm

Coorong wrote:Sorry boys, cant continue with this conversation. Have to go and do the washing and ironing.

Suprised you haven't got a jigaboo or an Asian to do that for you.
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Postby redandblack » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:30 pm

Coorong wrote:Goodnight Wedgie.. Been a big day for you?


It's certainly been a red-letter day for you, Coorong.

Racist git.
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Postby am Bays » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:53 pm

Dutchy wrote:Tell me, what is the average income of Aborigines in the NT?


1stly i have no real idea but my tip is that there is a bigger standard deviation compared to the european incomes i.e their are those that earn plenty and those that earn bugger all. In other words the bell curve would be much flatter....cue Ecky to explain the bell curve of a normal distribution.

There is a hierachy for aboriginal communities when it comes to royalties. Those that have mining on their land earn plenty, and I mean plenty, followed by national parks and pastoral leases. However their are those communities that have none of the above and they struggle big time.

In an nutshell govt grants, mining, royalties, pastoral royalties etc it pays to be in the right family such as the Yunupingu's in east Arnhen land as the money rolls in but if you are in despute with that clan or as a clan member are in despute with teh elders life for you is a struggle as you will be cut off......

For some of you having a crack at Coorong, the community Coorong mentioned Ntaria (or to Eropeans Hermansberg) has plenty of problems and major rorts exist. For example in 2001 the head of the communities wife was on $45 000 a year as the communites Arts officer and having spoken to indigenous aboriginal grants officers not much art work was being done out there, certainly not by her for what she was getting "employed" to do.....

So when Coorong says there are indigenous individuals earning the average wage money foff the government at some communities for no real output he is not wrong. Whilst I certainly don't agree with everything coorong has posted on here tonight theer is an element of truth to some of what he has said. If you don't believe me pack up and live at Mt Allen, Lajamanu, Papunya, Yuendumu and Kintore (particularly Kintore) as you might get a differenent perspective on the issues confronting aboriginal Australia. Trust me it is much different from what you and I both read in the southern media and what we hear from people on both sides of the political spectrum....

The one comment i'll make about Pauline is that some of what she says it not much different from Noel Pearson (aboriginal elder in FNQ) when it comes to breaking the welfare cycle / dependancy in Aboriginal Communities.

However I will freely admit what 90% of what she says is utter garbage but hasn't she got us debating on here tonight...
Last edited by am Bays on Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:17 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby Dutchy » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:58 pm

redandblack wrote:
Coorong wrote:Goodnight Wedgie.. Been a big day for you?


It's certainly been a red-letter day for you, Coorong.

Racist git.


well said redandblack, very black and white....pardon the pun
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