Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two months

Labor, Liberal, Greens, Democrats? Here's the place to discuss.

Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby bulldogproud2 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:58 pm

Psyber wrote:The core issue in the debate about the illegality or not of those entering Oz by boat rather than by plane.
http://www.politifact.com.au/truth-o-me ... y-enterin/
Mary Crock, a law professor at Sydney University and a specialist in immigration and refugee law, told PolitiFact:
"The bottom line in the refugee convention is that it prohibits signatory states from imposing penalties on refugees for their illegal entry to the country. Refugees can’t be called illegal because the presumption has to be that they could be legitimate refugees."

The problem is with language and it’s touched on in Crock’s own reference to "illegal entry". Section 14 of Australia’s Migration Act specifies that "a non-citizen in the migration zone who is not a lawful non-citizen [ie, a non-citizen holding an appropriate visa] is an unlawful non-citizen".

Section 228B spells out that "a non-citizen seeking protection or asylum" but without a valid visa has "no lawful right to come to Australia", regardless of Australia’s protection obligations. Prior to 1994, an unlawful non-citizen was known in law as an "illegal entrant".

And article 31 of the UN convention says a refugee who enters a country without authorisation does so illegally, although nations that have signed the convention "shall not impose penalties on account of their illegal entry or presence".


Article 31 says nothing of the sort!!

Article 31: Refugees unlawfully in the country of refuge

Article 31 of the Refugee Convention prohibits states parties from imposing penalties on refugees who, when coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened, enter or are present in their territory without authorisation, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and can show good cause for their illegal entry or presence.

This Article recognises that refugees have a lawful right to enter a country for the purposes of seeking asylum, regardless of how they arrive or whether they hold valid travel or identity documents. As such, what otherwise be considered illegal actions (eg. entering a country without a visa) should not be treated as such if a person is seeking asylum. This means that it is incorrect to refer to asylum seekers who arrive without authorisation as “illegal”, as they in fact have a lawful right to do so if they are seeking asylum.

Article 31 also prohibits states parties from restricting the freedom of movement of refugees who arrive without authorisation, with the exception of restrictions necessary for regularising their status. Furthermore, such restrictions should be applied only until their status in the country is regularised or they obtain admission into another country.


The above comes straight from the United Nations website. What it is saying that, if you were normally coming into a country without a valid visa, it would be illegal. For instance, I am going to China next month. It is illegal for me to enter there without a valid visa.
However, as Article 31 clearly states, if someone is seeking asylum IT IS NOT ILLEGAL for them to arrive without a visa, or in fact, without any documentation.

Cheers
bulldogproud2
League - Best 21
 
 
Posts: 1702
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:24 pm
Location: West Beach or Henley Oval
Has liked: 52 times
Been liked: 51 times
Grassroots Team: Imperials

Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby bulldogproud2 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:17 am

Psyber wrote:The core issue in the debate about the illegality or not of those entering Oz by boat rather than by plane.
http://www.politifact.com.au/truth-o-me ... y-enterin/
Mary Crock, a law professor at Sydney University and a specialist in immigration and refugee law, told PolitiFact:
"The bottom line in the refugee convention is that it prohibits signatory states from imposing penalties on refugees for their illegal entry to the country. Refugees can’t be called illegal because the presumption has to be that they could be legitimate refugees."

The problem is with language and it’s touched on in Crock’s own reference to "illegal entry". Section 14 of Australia’s Migration Act specifies that "a non-citizen in the migration zone who is not a lawful non-citizen [ie, a non-citizen holding an appropriate visa] is an unlawful non-citizen".

Section 228B spells out that "a non-citizen seeking protection or asylum" but without a valid visa has "no lawful right to come to Australia", regardless of Australia’s protection obligations. Prior to 1994, an unlawful non-citizen was known in law as an "illegal entrant".

And article 31 of the UN convention says a refugee who enters a country without authorisation does so illegally, although nations that have signed the convention "shall not impose penalties on account of their illegal entry or presence".




You may wish to read the following from the Australian Human Rights Commission:

http://www.humanrights.gov.au/publicati ... eading1274

3.7 What obligations does Australia owe asylum seekers and refugees?

Australia is one of 145 countries to have ratified the Refugee Convention.[226] This means that Australia has committed to respect the rights of refugees and to uphold the obligations set out in the treaty.

Crucially, as a party to the Convention, Australia has agreed to never return a refugee to a country where he or she has reason to fear persecution.[227] This is the case whether people arrive in Australia with a valid visa or not. In accordance with its international obligations Australia should give all people seeking asylum the chance to prove that they are refugees.Australian law requires that asylum seekers who have not been successful in their claims for refugee status and have no lawful basis for remaining in Australia be removed from the country as soon as practicable.[228]

top | contents

3.8 What is Australia’s policy on asylum seekers and refugees?

Under its Humanitarian Program, Australia accepts a certain number of people every year who are refugees or have special humanitarian needs.

The Humanitarian Program has two main components:
•offshore resettlement for people who are found to be refugees and others whose need for protection has been acknowledged before they come to Australia, and
•onshore protection for people who make a successful claim for asylum after they arrive in Australia.

Australia is the only country in the world to numerically link its system for granting asylum onshore and its scheme for resettling people from offshore under a single program. The effect of this link is that each time a person is granted refugee status within Australia, one place is subtracted from the offshore component. Other countries determine a particular number of refugees to be resettled each year, depending on global needs, and meet this commitment regardless of how many people seek asylum directly from the country.

Resettling people who have been found to be refugees overseas (offshore resettlement)

Refugees and other ‘humanitarian entrants’ who apply for a visa from outside Australia can be granted one of two kinds of visas.
•Refugee Visas can be granted to people outside their home country who satisfy the Refugee Convention definition of ‘refugee’ and who are in need of resettlement because they cannot return to their home country or stay where they are.[229]
•Special Humanitarian Program Visas can be granted to people outside their home country who have experienced substantial discrimination amounting to a gross violation of their human rights in their home country. A proposer – who is an Australian citizen, Australian permanent resident, eligible New Zealand citizen or organisation based in Australia – must support an application for this visa.[230]

Protecting people who seek asylum from within Australia (onshore protection)

Some people can seek to be recognised as refugees when they are already in Australia by applying for a Protection Visa. Asylum seekers must satisfy the Refugee Convention definition of ‘refugee’ to be granted a Protection Visa.

Australia is obliged to protect a refugee if:
•the applicant has a well-founded fear of persecution on at least one of the grounds covered by the Refugee Convention
•the applicant has not committed war crimes or serious non-political crimes
•the applicant does not have effective protection in another country (through citizenship or some other right to enter and remain safely in that country).
A Protection Visa allows a refugee to live in Australia as a permanent resident. It gives people the same rights as other permanent residents, including being able to apply for citizenship.[231]
bulldogproud2
League - Best 21
 
 
Posts: 1702
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:24 pm
Location: West Beach or Henley Oval
Has liked: 52 times
Been liked: 51 times
Grassroots Team: Imperials

Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby mick » Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:22 am

Some people have too much time on their hands?
User avatar
mick
League - Best 21
 
 
Posts: 1639
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:34 am
Location: On the banks of the Murray
Has liked: 1 time
Been liked: 0 time

Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby bulldogproud2 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:11 am

mick wrote:Some people have too much time on their hands?


Naw, some people just know where to look for information, having been involved with assisting refugees in Australia on a voluntary basis.
Mick, I work approximately 90 hours a week between school commitments, parish duties, St. Vincent de Paul assistance and working on my Masters. Sorry if you think I may have a lot of time on my hands as a result. ;)

Cheers
bulldogproud2
League - Best 21
 
 
Posts: 1702
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:24 pm
Location: West Beach or Henley Oval
Has liked: 52 times
Been liked: 51 times
Grassroots Team: Imperials

Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby mick » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:58 am

bulldogproud2 wrote:
mick wrote:Some people have too much time on their hands?


Naw, some people just know where to look for information, having been involved with assisting refugees in Australia on a voluntary basis.
Mick, I work approximately 90 hours a week between school commitments, parish duties, St. Vincent de Paul assistance and working on my Masters. Sorry if you think I may have a lot of time on my hands as a result. ;)

Cheers


Don't agree with your politics but good on you
User avatar
mick
League - Best 21
 
 
Posts: 1639
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:34 am
Location: On the banks of the Murray
Has liked: 1 time
Been liked: 0 time

Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby bulldogproud2 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:11 am

mick wrote:
bulldogproud2 wrote:
mick wrote:Some people have too much time on their hands?


Naw, some people just know where to look for information, having been involved with assisting refugees in Australia on a voluntary basis.
Mick, I work approximately 90 hours a week between school commitments, parish duties, St. Vincent de Paul assistance and working on my Masters. Sorry if you think I may have a lot of time on my hands as a result. ;)

Cheers


Don't agree with your politics but good on you


Thanks, Mick. I do appreciate that. Politics is something that 50% of people will disagree with one another on 100% of the time and 100% of the people 50% of the time. I can definitely accept you disagreeing with my politics. :)
The only ones who I don't like making critical comments are those who make them without giving any thought to the two sides of the argument. Perhaps I have been guilty of this at times, but I do pretty much always try to provide reasonings for the points I express.

Re my work hours, thankfully I have a tiny breather this week and next - our students are in Examination revision mode at Year 10 and 11 levels and sit there exams next week. Plus, I just finished my last assignment for this unit on my Masters... so there is calm before the storm.

Cheers my friend :)
bulldogproud2
League - Best 21
 
 
Posts: 1702
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:24 pm
Location: West Beach or Henley Oval
Has liked: 52 times
Been liked: 51 times
Grassroots Team: Imperials

Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Psyber » Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:09 pm

I'm prepared to accept that "Mary Crock, a law professor at Sydney University and a specialist in immigration and refugee law", may have given the Polifact site an incorrect interpretation, or that they may have misquoted her. (Or even that they may have invented her!)

I'd just come across the site and put the link up as I found it, as I don't have time to search for the original information myself at present.
(I'm flying out to a job in northern NSW for 10 weeks this weekend.)

As I said, most of the other stuff I read on the site seemed to be a fair assessment to me.
But I assume opinions about that will differ too. ;)
EPIGENETICS - Lamarck was right!
User avatar
Psyber
Coach
 
 
Posts: 12247
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:43 pm
Location: Now back in the Adelaide Hills.
Has liked: 104 times
Been liked: 405 times
Grassroots Team: Hahndorf

Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby bulldogproud2 » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:11 pm

Psyber wrote:I'm prepared to accept that "Mary Crock, a law professor at Sydney University and a specialist in immigration and refugee law", may have given the Polifact site an incorrect interpretation, or that they may have misquoted her. (Or even that they may have invented her!)

I'd just come across the site and put the link up as I found it, as I don't have time to search for the original information myself at present.
(I'm flying out to a job in northern NSW for 10 weeks this weekend.)

As I said, most of the other stuff I read on the site seemed to be a fair assessment to me.
But I assume opinions about that will differ too. ;)


Good luck with the work placement, Psyber.
Mary Crock is indeed a well-respected law professor. You did well in finding the information.
Cheers
bulldogproud2
League - Best 21
 
 
Posts: 1702
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:24 pm
Location: West Beach or Henley Oval
Has liked: 52 times
Been liked: 51 times
Grassroots Team: Imperials

Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby ORDoubleBlues » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:04 pm

There will be some on here that will be pretty peed off at Bob Carr for telling it like it is earlier in the week.
R.I.P. Patrice Lumumba 1925 - 1961
User avatar
ORDoubleBlues
League - Top 5
 
 
Posts: 3275
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:36 pm
Has liked: 2 times
Been liked: 16 times
Grassroots Team: Wisanger

Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Q. » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:09 pm

ORDoubleBlues wrote:There will be some on here that will be pretty peed off at Bob Carr for telling it like it is earlier in the week.


Telling it like it isn't, actually. With 90% of asylum seeker claims found to be valid, it would appear Mr Carr is just appealing to the lowest common denominator.
User avatar
Q.
Coach
 
 
Posts: 22019
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:16 pm
Location: El Dorado
Has liked: 970 times
Been liked: 2397 times
Grassroots Team: Houghton Districts

Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Bully » Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:01 am

1200 people have tried to come to Australia since K rudds new laws to home people in PNG . Yeah, this is working even better!
Bully
Coach
 
Posts: 12496
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:28 am
Location: The best place on earth
Has liked: 16 times
Been liked: 120 times

Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Jimmy_041 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:31 am

They obviously dont read The Advertiser :)
dedja: Dunno, I’m just an idiot.
User avatar
Jimmy_041
Coach
 
 
Posts: 15086
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:30 pm
Has liked: 831 times
Been liked: 1279 times
Grassroots Team: Prince Alfred OC

Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Q. » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:36 am

Bully wrote:1200 people have tried to come to Australia since K rudds new laws to home people in PNG . Yeah, this is working even better!


Further proof that these hardline stances have never worked and will never work.
User avatar
Q.
Coach
 
 
Posts: 22019
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:16 pm
Location: El Dorado
Has liked: 970 times
Been liked: 2397 times
Grassroots Team: Houghton Districts

Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby cripple » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:57 am

The biggest issue with so called illegal immigration in my opinion is the way the media jas jumped up and down about it. Can't remember what I was watching but when you compare the coverage of the current situation to what happened post 1975, it is chalk and cheese even though it's the same issue. Has almost forced the governments hand into the "png solution" because its what the majority of people apparently want due to what they've been told
cripple
League Bench Warmer
 
 
Posts: 1261
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:21 am
Location: Mexico
Has liked: 0 time
Been liked: 0 time

Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Q. » Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:12 pm

cripple wrote:The biggest issue with so called illegal immigration in my opinion is the way the media jas jumped up and down about it. Can't remember what I was watching but when you compare the coverage of the current situation to what happened post 1975, it is chalk and cheese even though it's the same issue. Has almost forced the governments hand into the "png solution" because its what the majority of people apparently want due to what they've been told


Article about it here:

http://thefailedestate.blogspot.com.au/

The Rudd government's new PNG solution to the asylum seekers problem is aimed at shutting down a filthy trade run by cynical and low-rent opportunists who exploit the hopes and fears of the most marginalised for commercial gain. Yes, we're talking about tabloid editors.

There are two dimensions to the refugees issue. One is managing the problem itself - a relatively marginal one for a rich economy that leads the developed world on most economic metrics. The second dimension - and the trickier one - is the theatrics around the issue, a charade kept alive by attention-seeking sections of the news media and the frightened politicians they goad into one piece of policy knee-jerkery after another.
User avatar
Q.
Coach
 
 
Posts: 22019
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:16 pm
Location: El Dorado
Has liked: 970 times
Been liked: 2397 times
Grassroots Team: Houghton Districts

Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Sky Pilot » Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:27 pm

The whole boat people issue is out of control and really, none of our politicians have got a clue how to fix it without offending the looney left do-gooders. The problem could be fixed by taking some drastic border protection action at this end and telling the Indonesians to lift their game at the departure points. But the outcry would be overwhelming, so we have to learn to live with it. Within two generations our Aussie lifestyle will be seriously compromised and beyond help.
People who bought this book also bought a stool and some rope. Unknown literary critic
User avatar
Sky Pilot
Assistant Coach
 
 
Posts: 4390
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:39 pm
Location: Stone Hut Bakery
Has liked: 6 times
Been liked: 3 times
Grassroots Team: BMW

Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Leaping Lindner » Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:30 pm

Q. wrote:
Bully wrote:1200 people have tried to come to Australia since K rudds new laws to home people in PNG . Yeah, this is working even better!


Further proof that these hardline stances have never worked and will never work.


Oh I don't know. I think Abbott's Sovereign Border solutions might....

Image

That's Pyne second from the Left.
"They got Burton suits, ha, you think it's funny,turning rebellion into money"
User avatar
Leaping Lindner
Assistant Coach
 
 
Posts: 4325
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:02 pm
Location: Victoria
Has liked: 17 times
Been liked: 48 times

Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby cripple » Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:47 pm

Sky Pilot wrote:The whole boat people issue is out of control and really, none of our politicians have got a clue how to fix it without offending the looney left do-gooders. The problem could be fixed by taking some drastic border protection action at this end and telling the Indonesians to lift their game at the departure points. But the outcry would be overwhelming, so we have to learn to live with it. Within two generations our Aussie lifestyle will be seriously compromised and beyond help.



There is no relevance to this point of view. Every wave of migration in our history has brought about change and in hindsight its almost always positive. In this instance its generally lunatic right wingers that drum up hatred and a "sky is falling" mentality. In a perfect world there'd be no asylum seekers as no one would be forced into such a situation and the few that were could be treated in a timely manner before reaching places like Australia and the USA. Until that day comes, media and politicians alike will prey on peoples insecurities about the worst possible outcome.
cripple
League Bench Warmer
 
 
Posts: 1261
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:21 am
Location: Mexico
Has liked: 0 time
Been liked: 0 time

Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Gozu » Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:24 pm

cripple wrote:
Sky Pilot wrote:The whole boat people issue is out of control and really, none of our politicians have got a clue how to fix it without offending the looney left do-gooders. The problem could be fixed by taking some drastic border protection action at this end and telling the Indonesians to lift their game at the departure points. But the outcry would be overwhelming, so we have to learn to live with it. Within two generations our Aussie lifestyle will be seriously compromised and beyond help.



There is no relevance to this point of view. Every wave of migration in our history has brought about change and in hindsight its almost always positive. In this instance its generally lunatic right wingers that drum up hatred and a "sky is falling" mentality. In a perfect world there'd be no asylum seekers as no one would be forced into such a situation and the few that were could be treated in a timely manner before reaching places like Australia and the USA. Until that day comes, media and politicians alike will prey on peoples insecurities about the worst possible outcome.


Don't take SP too seriously, one time on here he posted a speech by Geert Wilders.
"The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment" – Warren Bennis
User avatar
Gozu
Coach
 
 
Posts: 13843
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:35 am
Has liked: 0 time
Been liked: 680 times

Re: Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two mo

Postby Sky Pilot » Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:26 pm

Gozu wrote:
cripple wrote:
Sky Pilot wrote:The whole boat people issue is out of control and really, none of our politicians have got a clue how to fix it without offending the looney left do-gooders. The problem could be fixed by taking some drastic border protection action at this end and telling the Indonesians to lift their game at the departure points. But the outcry would be overwhelming, so we have to learn to live with it. Within two generations our Aussie lifestyle will be seriously compromised and beyond help.



There is no relevance to this point of view. Every wave of migration in our history has brought about change and in hindsight its almost always positive. In this instance its generally lunatic right wingers that drum up hatred and a "sky is falling" mentality. In a perfect world there'd be no asylum seekers as no one would be forced into such a situation and the few that were could be treated in a timely manner before reaching places like Australia and the USA. Until that day comes, media and politicians alike will prey on peoples insecurities about the worst possible outcome.


Don't take SP too seriously, one time on here he posted a speech by Geert Wilders.

I have his picture on the wall next to my first best friend Andrew Bolt
People who bought this book also bought a stool and some rope. Unknown literary critic
User avatar
Sky Pilot
Assistant Coach
 
 
Posts: 4390
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:39 pm
Location: Stone Hut Bakery
Has liked: 6 times
Been liked: 3 times
Grassroots Team: BMW

PreviousNext

Board index   General Talk  Politics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Around the place

Competitions   SANFL Official Site | Country Footy SA | Southern Football League | VFL Footy
Club Forums   Snouts Louts | The Roost | Redlegs Forum |