Union Cowardice

[Jimmy_041]

Let's just say that sympathy for the workers' plight has been missing from many posts, but there's been a great deal of sympathy for the bloke who drove his car into a crowd and injured someone.

I wish I had a bit more time to scan my posts, as I can be sure the core argument will often be avoided in favour of semantic argument

That is f***ing GOLD

The core discussion was about a worker and his right to cross a picket line and you bring up about everything else:

In this case, you have no sympathy at all for people earning a measly few dollars an hour from a company owned by someone worth $495 million. Someone who is allegedly breaking the law relating to wages and conditions in a workplace where someone was decapitated last year.

Several of the usual suspects have rushed to condemn my opinion on this again, fair enough, but I don't know how many times I have to say I don't condone violence of any kind, by whoever it is.

I do have sympathy for the workers involved, though, but I'm a bit bewildered at your vehement defence of the very powerful over the very weak.

If you really want to know more about the politics behind this anti-union campaign by the Company, there's a revealing article on it in Crikey today.

Sorry R&B - no response?

You are a classic of inciting a response and then going "what me?"

But worse still - oh whoa is me - everyone is picking on me

Seriously - you'd be the bloke in the picket line beating the crap out of the driver then trying to sue him for biting your fist 5 times

[redandblack]

Yawn.

Get over it, Jimmy.

No substance again, just more personal abuse.

[Q.]

Liberals exposed as kingmakers in bitter chicken spat

A shadowy astroturf group led by two Liberal Party operatives has emerged to bend public opinion in the bitter Baiada Poultry workplace dispute.

A press release was distributed yesterday on behalf of a so-called “People Power Group” comprising “non-union” employees of the chicken processor, which is locked in a stand-off with its unionised workforce over wages and conditions.

The NUW has erected a picket line around the company’s Laverton North plant, which has been shutdown since last Wednesday.

While it didn’t refer to any individual by name, the release spruiking a “peaceful” counter-protest at Julia Gillard’s Altona office included the mobile phone number and personal email address of one-time Liberal Higgins hopeful Jason Aldworth.

Yesterday afternoon, Aldworth arrived at the PM’s digs accompanied by former Maribyrnong Liberal candidate Hamish Jones, who was disendorsed in 2007 for branding then-state Labor transport minister Lynne Kosky a “bitch” and a “f-ckwit” on his personal blog.

The duo oversaw the delivery of “poster-sized” petition to the Prime Minister. About 25 protesters waved placards daubed with phrases like “I want to go to work”, which looked to have been cheaply produced at Officeworks.

When they arrived they were confronted by NUW members, 220 of whom are on strike.

However, Crikey understands many “People Power” members were reluctant to protest and had to have their arm twisted by Aldworth to confront their fellow employees. Some are believed to be supervisors, Baiada contractors or disenfranchised ex-Meatworkers still smarting from a previous demarcation dispute with the NUW.

[Bat Pad]

Liberals exposed as kingmakers in bitter chicken spat

A shadowy astroturf group led by two Liberal Party operatives has emerged to bend public opinion in the bitter Baiada Poultry workplace dispute.

A press release was distributed yesterday on behalf of a so-called “People Power Group” comprising “non-union” employees of the chicken processor, which is locked in a stand-off with its unionised workforce over wages and conditions.

The NUW has erected a picket line around the company’s Laverton North plant, which has been shutdown since last Wednesday.

While it didn’t refer to any individual by name, the release spruiking a “peaceful” counter-protest at Julia Gillard’s Altona office included the mobile phone number and personal email address of one-time Liberal Higgins hopeful Jason Aldworth.

Yesterday afternoon, Aldworth arrived at the PM’s digs accompanied by former Maribyrnong Liberal candidate Hamish Jones, who was disendorsed in 2007 for branding then-state Labor transport minister Lynne Kosky a “bitch” and a “f-ckwit” on his personal blog.

The duo oversaw the delivery of “poster-sized” petition to the Prime Minister. About 25 protesters waved placards daubed with phrases like “I want to go to work”, which looked to have been cheaply produced at Officeworks.

When they arrived they were confronted by NUW members, 220 of whom are on strike.

However, Crikey understands many “People Power” members were reluctant to protest and had to have their arm twisted by Aldworth to confront their fellow employees. Some are believed to be supervisors, Baiada contractors or disenfranchised ex-Meatworkers still smarting from a previous demarcation dispute with the NUW.

I wasn't able to read the entire atricle as I couldn't get past the crikey add trying to get my membership.

But from what you have shown, apparently one former Liberal who was dis-endorsed and one who once ran and may or may not still be a member (it isn't made clear) adds to 'Liberals making themselves Kingmakers'. The fact that they refer to the persons involved as 'operatives' not members makes me think that they are no longer involved in the party.

Also, Crikey understands and Crikey believes is hardly compelling evidence.

Not sure if there is more detail in the whole article, but from what I have been able to read can't say it adds much to this debate.

[redandblack]

If the protesters had alternatives, then the driver also did.

He could have reversed and driven away. No-one would have blamed him. The alternative he chose was to drive into the crowd and injure someone.

I'm still wondering why so many get stuck into the lowly paid workers and see nothing wrong with the actions of the $500 million dollar man or of one of his security guards injuring someone by reckless driving?

Unless it's OK if you're going less than 10kmh.

New road rule

Imagine the damage he'd have done reversing? At least going forward he could see what was there.

I'm not politicising, I'm humanising the situation. Not made mention of anyone belonging to a union. I'm in the wrong board, perhaps.

Transcript from 'Lateline'


TONY JONES, PRESENTER: There have been some extraordinary scenes at a picket line at the Melbourne plant of Australia's largest poultry company, Baiada.

More than a hundred workers at the Laverton North plant went on indefinite strike this evening over conditions at the plant.

A security guard who tried to cross the picket line had his car keys taken away by union members. When they were returned, he tried to drive through the crowd.

SECURITY GUARD: You shouldn't have treated me like that, guys. If you'd done the right thing, I would have reversed.

PROTESTING WORKERS (chanting in unison): Shame on you! Shame on you! Shame on you! Shame on you!

TONY JONES: The ambulance service has treated one person struck by the car for an arm injury.

Staff at the chicken processing plant say they need better job security, with claims many workers are contractors working below the minimum wage.

Melbourne police are monitoring the picket line tonight.

No-one from Baiada has been available for comment.

[Q.]

Liberals exposed as kingmakers in bitter chicken spat

A shadowy astroturf group led by two Liberal Party operatives has emerged to bend public opinion in the bitter Baiada Poultry workplace dispute.

A press release was distributed yesterday on behalf of a so-called “People Power Group” comprising “non-union” employees of the chicken processor, which is locked in a stand-off with its unionised workforce over wages and conditions.

The NUW has erected a picket line around the company’s Laverton North plant, which has been shutdown since last Wednesday.

While it didn’t refer to any individual by name, the release spruiking a “peaceful” counter-protest at Julia Gillard’s Altona office included the mobile phone number and personal email address of one-time Liberal Higgins hopeful Jason Aldworth.

Yesterday afternoon, Aldworth arrived at the PM’s digs accompanied by former Maribyrnong Liberal candidate Hamish Jones, who was disendorsed in 2007 for branding then-state Labor transport minister Lynne Kosky a “bitch” and a “f-ckwit” on his personal blog.

The duo oversaw the delivery of “poster-sized” petition to the Prime Minister. About 25 protesters waved placards daubed with phrases like “I want to go to work”, which looked to have been cheaply produced at Officeworks.

When they arrived they were confronted by NUW members, 220 of whom are on strike.

However, Crikey understands many “People Power” members were reluctant to protest and had to have their arm twisted by Aldworth to confront their fellow employees. Some are believed to be supervisors, Baiada contractors or disenfranchised ex-Meatworkers still smarting from a previous demarcation dispute with the NUW.

I wasn't able to read the entire atricle as I couldn't get past the crikey add trying to get my membership.

But from what you have shown, apparently one former Liberal who was dis-endorsed and one who once ran and may or may not still be a member (it isn't made clear) adds to 'Liberals making themselves Kingmakers'. The fact that they refer to the persons involved as 'operatives' not members makes me think that they are no longer involved in the party.

Also, Crikey understands and Crikey believes is hardly compelling evidence.

Not sure if there is more detail in the whole article, but from what I have been able to read can't say it adds much to this debate.

Read the whole article for a better understanding.

Given that this thread turned into a discussion about the Baiada workplace dispute, I thought it was a relevant article as it discloses the tactics being used by the employer.

[Bat Pad]

Do you know how to get past the membership thing?

The tactics of the employer are irrelevant anyway, this thread is about the assaulting of the security guard, who as I have stated a couple of times i don't think was even employed by Baida (happy to be corrected).

Being treated poorly by someone else does not in any way excuse assaulting a third party because you are frustrated.

To believe that it does, means you must believe that being treated poorly by your boss gives you justification to go home and smack your wife/kids.

[Q.]

Do you know how to get past the membership thing?

The tactics of the employer are irrelevant anyway, this thread is about the assaulting of the security guard, who as I have stated a couple of times i don't think was even employed by Baida (happy to be corrected).

Being treated poorly by someone else does not in any way excuse assaulting a third party because you are frustrated.

To believe that it does, means you must believe that being treated poorly by your boss gives you justification to go home and smack your wife/kids.

Close the pop up by clicking on the cross in the top left corner.

Given that the thread turned into a discussion on on the Baiada workplace dispute I thought it was a relevant article. I haven't actually excuse the assault anywhere in this thread.

[Bat Pad]

Do you know how to get past the membership thing?

The tactics of the employer are irrelevant anyway, this thread is about the assaulting of the security guard, who as I have stated a couple of times i don't think was even employed by Baida (happy to be corrected).

Being treated poorly by someone else does not in any way excuse assaulting a third party because you are frustrated.

To believe that it does, means you must believe that being treated poorly by your boss gives you justification to go home and smack your wife/kids.

Close the pop up by clicking on the cross in the top left corner.

Given that the thread turned into a discussion on on the Baiada workplace dispute I thought it was a relevant article. I haven't actually excuse the assault anywhere in this thread.

Ta

Not much evidence in there, most of it conjecture and circumstatial (at best).

I mean, a lawyer who worked with Peter Costello on one case in the late 80's and is now the lawyer for Baida is apparently a link to the Liberal Party?

I accept you have not condoned the assault of the man

[Hondo]

There's a few assumptions being made here. On reading the posts I get this impression of a innocent worker just trying to enter his workplace to feed his family.

I think the reasons why the driver was trying to enter the workplace need some discussion. It doesn't quite make sense to me despite several posters saying he just wanted to go to work. I know that seems like captain obvious but, if so, why was he the only one who felt that level of motivation and commitment?

Regardless of whether the picket line should have been there in the first place, I ask who here would try to drive through a picket line? Even if you were indifferent to the union people getting hurt (ie, you feel they shouldn't be there in the first place) wouldn't you consider the liklihood that your car would be damaged and/or you could get hurt? If it were me, I'd call the police or call my boss and tell either of them to clear the way.

I wouldn't let my boss use the fact that I am a trained security guard in a vehicle to make me try to drive through the line. Yes, I am speculating that he was told to push through the picket line by the company. I can't see why else it was so desparately important to him.

Why I am sceptical about the motivations is that I am not convinced he would have missed out on his pay if he didn't enter the workplace. (1) was he actually an employee of the company or was he employed by a 3rd part security firm (and therefore paid regardless) and (2) if he was, can he legally be denied wages because he can't enter the workplace.

I do not condone what happened to him once he tried to drive through. To me however, an obviously inflamed situation was made even more inflamed and I just can't see why this guard felt it was that important he drive through, unless he was being requested to.

[Psyber]

The driver may not have been motivated by instructions from the company, but simply by his own nature being to not let anyone tell him what to do or not do.
I agree trying to drive through the pickets was excessive, as was trying to physically stop someone who wanted to go in going in.
So, there is fault on both sides.

In my WorkCover involvement days in the 1990s I sat in on case conferences with injured workers, the unions, mangers, and the rehabilitation team, to strike satisfactory return to work plans only to have some prejudiced Foreman on the shop floor sabotage them when the guy fronted up. And that was not with the connivance of management - at least one I know of was fired for his actions.

[Q.]

There's a few assumptions being made here. On reading the posts I get this impression of a innocent worker just trying to enter his workplace to feed his family.

I think the reasons why the driver was trying to enter the workplace need some discussion. It doesn't quite make sense to me despite several posters saying he just wanted to go to work. I know that seems like captain obvious but, if so, why was he the only one who felt that level of motivation and commitment?

Regardless of whether the picket line should have been there in the first place, I ask who here would try to drive through a picket line? Even if you were indifferent to the union people getting hurt (ie, you feel they shouldn't be there in the first place) wouldn't you consider the liklihood that your car would be damaged and/or you could get hurt? If it were me, I'd call the police or call my boss and tell either of them to clear the way.

I wouldn't let my boss use the fact that I am a trained security guard in a vehicle to make me try to drive through the line. Yes, I am speculating that he was told to push through the picket line by the company. I can't see why else it was so desparately important to him.

Why I am sceptical about the motivations is that I am not convinced he would have missed out on his pay if he didn't enter the workplace. (1) was he actually an employee of the company or was he employed by a 3rd part security firm (and therefore paid regardless) and (2) if he was, can he legally be denied wages because he can't enter the workplace.

I do not condone what happened to him once he tried to drive through. To me however, an obviously inflamed situation was made even more inflamed and I just can't see why this guard felt it was that important he drive through, unless he was being requested to.

Are you suggesting that there is a possibilty it was a set-up?

[Jimmy_041]

The driver may not have been motivated by instructions from the company, but simply by his own nature being to not let anyone tell him what to do or not do.
I agree trying to drive through the pickets was excessive, as was trying to physically stop someone who wanted to go in going in.
So, there is fault on both sides.

Totally agree with you Psyber

The rest of the people on here are just radicals

[Psyber]

Totally agree with you Psyber
The rest of the people on here are just radicals

Yes - if we look at the scores posted in the Parallel Universe thread and exclude Wedgie we are all radical lefties.
We are just fighting over how left is left enough or too left, each thinking we are centralist...

[Jimmy_041]

I went fishing with a couple of union mates last weekend and told them I'm officially a lefty........

No amount of beer or red wine could convince them

[wycbloods]

There's a few assumptions being made here. On reading the posts I get this impression of a innocent worker just trying to enter his workplace to feed his family.

I think the reasons why the driver was trying to enter the workplace need some discussion. It doesn't quite make sense to me despite several posters saying he just wanted to go to work. I know that seems like captain obvious but, if so, why was he the only one who felt that level of motivation and commitment?

Regardless of whether the picket line should have been there in the first place, I ask who here would try to drive through a picket line? Even if you were indifferent to the union people getting hurt (ie, you feel they shouldn't be there in the first place) wouldn't you consider the liklihood that your car would be damaged and/or you could get hurt? If it were me, I'd call the police or call my boss and tell either of them to clear the way.

I wouldn't let my boss use the fact that I am a trained security guard in a vehicle to make me try to drive through the line. Yes, I am speculating that he was told to push through the picket line by the company. I can't see why else it was so desparately important to him.

Why I am sceptical about the motivations is that I am not convinced he would have missed out on his pay if he didn't enter the workplace. (1) was he actually an employee of the company or was he employed by a 3rd part security firm (and therefore paid regardless) and (2) if he was, can he legally be denied wages because he can't enter the workplace.

I do not condone what happened to him once he tried to drive through. To me however, an obviously inflamed situation was made even more inflamed and I just can't see why this guard felt it was that important he drive through, unless he was being requested to.

Are you suggesting that there is a possibilty it was a set-up?

I am. I believe he would have been intstructed to do so by Baiada Management.

[Hondo]

Are you suggesting that there is a possibilty it was a set-up?

Despite the in-principled comments on there, I am not sure how many of us would have tried to run the gauntlet if they were in that situation, let alone twice, when it seems the workplace was shut down anyway. What was in it for him personally?

Add to that he is (presumably) a trained security guard and it all starts to seems odd to me. That's no excuse for what happened to him though.

This is purely my speculation of course.

[dedja]

I would have no hesitation to cross a picket line ... although I would hope that I could do so without bloodshed

Those on the picket line have a right to express their opinion and suggest or ask that one doesn't cross, but they should never have the unilateral right to physically stop anyone from entering their workplace.

[Bat Pad]

Might have mortagage payments and needed a days pay, and if he was a temp he wouldn't have gotten paid if he didn't show up.

[dedja]

or it could just simply be that he felt it was his choice whether he went to work, not someone elses ...