She's baaaaack!!!

[Dutchy]

Tell me, what is the average income of Aborigines in the NT?

1stly i have no real idea but my tip is that there is a bigger standard deviation compared to the european incomes i.e their are those that earn plenty and those that earn bugger all. In other words the bell curve would be much flatter....cue Ecky to explain the bell curve of a normal distribution.

There is a hierachy for aboriginal communities when it comes to royalties. Those that have mining on their land earn plenty, and I mean plenty, followed by national parks and pastoral leases. However their are those communities that have none of the above and they struggle big time.

In an nutshell govt grants, mining, royalties, pastoral royalties etc it pays to be in the right family such as the Yunupingu's in east Arnhen land as the money rolls in but if you are in despute with that clan or as a clan member are in despute with teh elders life for you is a struggle as you will be cut off......

Carefull LL the community Coorong mentioned Ntaria (or to Eropeans Hermansberg) has plenty of problems and major rorts exist. For example in 2001 the head of the communities wife was on $45 000 a year as the communites Arts officer and having spoken to indigenous aboriginal grants officers not much art work was being done out there, certainly not by her for what she was getting "employed" to do.....

So when Coorong says there are indigenous individuals earning the average wage money foff the government at some communities for no real output he is not wrong. Whilst I certainly don't agree with everything coorong has posted on here tonight theer is an element of truth to some of what he has said. If you don't believe me pack up and live at Mt Allen, Lajamanu, Papunya, Yuendumu and Kintore (particularly Kintore) as you might get a differenent perspective on the issues confronting aboriginal Australia. Trust me it is much different from what you and I both read in the southern media and what we hear from people on both sides of the political spectrum....

The one comment i'll make about Pauline is that some of what she says it not much different from Noel Pearson (aboriginal elder in FNQ) when it comes to breaking the welfare cycle / dependancy in Aboriginal Communities.

However I will freely admit what 90% of what she says is utter garbage but hasn't she got us debating on here tonight...

Thanks for that, just wondering of Coorong could put a figure on it as he said "average" and that it would be more than the normal average (around $55k p.a.)

[Leaping Lindner]

(EDIT).......Carefull LL......(EDIT)

..

????
My comment was directed at this "fact"

Travel to Melbourne and visit any suburb. Vietnamese who came here 2-5 years ago as refugees, now live in the best suburbs and drive merc'. Similar to many other nationalities.

I've lived here 12 years and I'd like to hear of one of these "best suburbs" that Vietnamese refugees live in and drive Mercedes. I want to go and check it out.

[am Bays]

Point taken changed my original post, sorry for the mis-quote.

[Coorong]

Well LL get out a bit to Templestowe, Doncater, Ringwood, Balwyn, Box Hill. Yeah take a stroll down Box Hill. Many more too, but enough of this. My views (if you read my post today) are mine. Didnt ask for agreement or argument. But they are based on fact.

On the Aboriginal issue and is off topic, I speak from experience. Tassie is right, I have been to all those places and can add Coober Pedy, Elliot, Arnhem Land (and have visited the leper colony)
Groote, and so many others.

Call me a redneck or racist, but your wrong. I am factual to the problems. And suspect those of you who only see it on the newsreel are not.

Now its time for the dishes and vacuuming.

[Wedgie]

what is the average income of every Aboriginal (covers men women and children) in NT, when you take into account welfare AND mining rights.

Could only find details for all Aboriginals (don't see what significance one state would be anyway as only 12% of the indigenous population live in the NT) and they're a bit old but in 2001 the average weekly household income for Indigenous people ($364) was only 62% of that for non-Indigenous people ($585).

Not sure why you asked the question but I hope it helps.

[Wedgie]

Call me a redneck or racist, but your wrong. I am factual to the problems. And suspect those of you who only see it on the newsreel are not.

lmao, every racist I've ever come across says that, its the classic retort for racists.

[redandblack]

What was the average income of the leper colony, Coorong?

[Coorong]

They had some difficulty holding the money and the wind was really strong!

Just know I will get shit for that but hey?

[am Bays]

Could only find details for all Aboriginals (don't see what significance one state would be anyway as only 12% of the indigenous population live in the NT) and they're a bit old but in 2001 the average weekly household income for Indigenous people ($364) was only 62% of that for non-Indigenous people ($585).

Not sure why you asked the question but I hope it helps.

My guess was going to be that it is lower than the average population given that most indigenous persosn living in the communities are basically on a work for the dole scheme (community development employment program CDEP) where the council get funding for people to do work around the community e.g. gardens, activity officers, work at the community store, sports officers etc, which is then paid to the employee on top of their dole payment....

Wedgie confirmed it, though...

[redandblack]

They had some difficulty holding the money and the wind was really strong!

Just know I will get shit for that but hey?

Just about sums you up.


______________________________________

Chivas? Chivas and more Chivas........

[Coorong]

Good night.

[Ecky]

Firstly, let me start by saying that I don't think I have ever spoken to any Aboriginals about "racial" issues, so I stand corrected on anything I say here, and many of you obviously know more about these things than I do... but I have one question.

Fair enough Wedgie, The Stolen Generation was one of the biggest crimes committed against the indigenous population of Australia in the past 100 years.

I think you will find it's the biggest, by the length of the Flemington straight.

Can somebody explain why this was such a great crime

To my understanding they were taken away by people who thought they were acting in the best interests of the children. The knowledge of Aboriginal people and their culture would have been very limited back then, so based on the available evidence of the day, removing them to give them a greater chance of assimilating into white society would have seemed like a perfectly sensible thing to do at the time.

Surely crimes such as murder and policies that were designed to exclude Aboriginals, such as denying them the right to vote, are worse than this (albeit misguided) attempt to include them into white society?

[Coorong]

But before I hit the pillow, about 30 seconds away. Call me racist on our Aboriginal population and you are so very wrong. read my posts again.

Oh by the way. I lived in a time when Aboriginals could not vote or go into a pub to have a drink. Also knew those that had "white mans rights" Sad part of society, but it is a part that I cant change. Nor should I apologise for it.

And to redandblack and wedgie, I speak from 56 years experience, right across Australia........ and you?

Call me racist on our curent community mix. Yep, got that right.

[therisingblues]

Coorong, you would have done better to stick to what facts you actually have knowledge of before making the generalisations you made. You may genuinely know some aborigines that were taken from their parents and raised by whites, and they may or may not genuinely think it was good for them, but to base the entire scenario on that limited piece of knowledge is not factual at all. At best you could have commented that you know some aborigines that thought it was alright but you shouldn't speak of the situation as a whole. Man, I saw a blonde man with glasses punching another guy one day, that doesn't make every blonde guy who wears glasses a bruiser.
As for your other comments, I don't see why Vietnamese that came here recently should be a disadvantage to this country, just because they are doing well. Would you like we stamp their visas with "Welcome to Australia, please don't ever buy a Mercedes, or live in a nice suburb, own a nice house etc... you'll upset the "natives"? If they never find employment and form little slums they are accused of dragging society down, so how can they win? So how is this in anyway related to who should or shouldn't be allowed into this country?
You may well take a swipe at Adelaide people as they "live 20 years from reality", as you put it, but you clearly have dived into this debate based on limited personal experience, assumptions, opinions and no facts whatsoever. It is no wonder you are pissing people off but then you say you didn't want an argument. I am also not one that usually jumps on the bandwagon of kicking a poster when plenty of others are already doing it, I just hope that some of this sinks in, as a man with as much experience as yourself, and a mind strong enough to state what he believes, should do some research before commenting on the bits of life he knows nothing about.
Otherwise you fit the mold of Pauline herself.

[therisingblues]

Fair enough Wedgie, The Stolen Generation was one of the biggest crimes committed against the indigenous population of Australia in the past 100 years.

I think you will find it's the biggest, by the length of the Flemington straight.

Surely crimes such as murder and policies that were designed to exclude Aboriginals, such as denying them the right to vote, are worse than this (albeit misguided) attempt to include them into white society?

Correct Ecky, hence my qualifier "one of the biggest crimes".

[power01]

sadly there are no winners in a discussion like this, i just hope and pray (and I'm no a religious man) that one day somehow this issue may be resolved and a happy outcome for all parties.....we are lucky enough to live in a great country..(yes we do have lots of problems and issues) but compared to many countries we have a good lifestyle and one that is the envy of many, sure its far from perfect and we have many regretable issues from our past..but it would be great if we could move on , look to the future and enjoy the benefits for all regardless of race, colour or culture.....

[redandblack]

Firstly, let me start by saying that I don't think I have ever spoken to any Aboriginals about "racial" issues, so I stand corrected on anything I say here, and many of you obviously know more about these things than I do... but I have one question.

Fair enough Wedgie, The Stolen Generation was one of the biggest crimes committed against the indigenous population of Australia in the past 100 years.

I think you will find it's the biggest, by the length of the Flemington straight.

Can somebody explain why this was such a great crime To my understanding they were taken away by people who thought they were acting in the best interests of the children. The knowledge of Aboriginal people and their culture would have been very limited back then, so based on the available evidence of the day, removing them to give them a greater chance of assimilating into white society would have seemed like a perfectly sensible thing to do at the time.

Surely crimes such as murder and policies that were designed to exclude Aboriginals, such as denying them the right to vote, are worse than this (albeit misguided) attempt to include them into white society?

Yes, I suppose taking children away from their parents isn't such a big crime.

After all, we know better.

Ye gods....... are you serious.

[mal]

After staying out four 4 pages of posts on this topic,
its easy to see why we have wars and vilification around the planet.
White[good cricketer] red, brown or black we are all human beings,
and should treat others and we would treat ourselves.

Any person whether of colour or creed should be liked if likeable
Any person whether of colour or creed should be disliked if dislikeable.

Pauline has views, but whether correct or incorrect she will incite racial
tensions and upset any equlibruim this country has forged over many generations.
History shows that some politicians with racist views have created destruction.

My views, I dont care what race or colour, if they upset me I react, if they
appease me I will acknowledge thier prescence with dignity and friendship.

Some races obviously raise my ire more than others.

I have been to over 60 countries around the planet, the thing Ive noticed is
what a country Australia is, the saying the 'lucky country' truer words have never been spoken.

[PhilG]

..

[Ecky]

Yes, I suppose taking children away from their parents isn't such a big crime.

After all, we know better.

Ye gods....... are you serious.

It all depends on the circumstances though R&B.

Today, children are taken away from their parents if their parents are drug addicts, for example.
In the past, Aborigines were unfortunately viewed in a not much better light than this, so it made sense given the ignorance that prevailed throughout white society then, to take away the children.

So it seems to be just an unfortunate "crime" that seems to be mainly based on ignorance on what was best for these children.

btw, I found the wiki page on this quite illuminating: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Generation