Gillard should go!

[Gozu]

Are you muppets the full quid? He says the whole of the ADF want the PM gone (in reality it would probably be around 50%), I ask for some sort of proof for such an outlandish statement and then you get scoob running in declaring anecdotes can't be voiced!

From what I've heard no senior citizens will ve voting for the Libs at the next election (eg an old guy I know votes Labor).

Have you got some proof in the form of a reliable poll for that statement?

Do you understand what probably means? The reality is the population generally splits roughly 50/50 between the two and despite preconceptions the defence forces would lean more to the Libs (right-wingers and their Laura Norder stuff, see John Howard and the billions blown on those fighter jets) they probably overall split 50/50 like the rest of the public.

[Psyber]

Do you understand what probably means? The reality is the population generally splits roughly 50/50 between the two and despite preconceptions the defence forces would lean more to the Libs (right-wingers and their Laura Norder stuff, see John Howard and the billions blown on those fighter jets) they probably overall split 50/50 like the rest of the public.

Except you have to factor in the psychology of those who would join the ADF which may make them different in some way from the general population..
I have no idea which way that may push them - they could be hawks who would like a pro-war government, or they could be those who joined because they had no other hope in society and lean left.

My sample is inadequate, as all the people I have ever met, who had been in the forces, have been officers, and rather conservative/authoritarian in style.
(One genuinely charming older man, whom I met through knowing his son, was an SS officer - they left Berlin after the Russian "Berlin Ultimatum" in November 1958.)

[Gozu]

I have no idea which way that may push them - they could be hawks who would like a pro-war government, or they could be those who joined because they had no other hope in society and lean left.

Pretty much sums up the arrogance of right-wingers.

My sample is inadequate, as all the people I have ever met, who had been in the forces, have been officers, and rather conservative/authoritarian in style.

I have no doubt officers and the military brass would lean towards the Libs. Afterall it's the Libs that continually throw bags of money at them.

[Squawk]

Gozu, you've seemingly had a cranky day today mate

OK, I made a fairly sweeping statement, but suffice to say the general feelings that have been expressed to me, is that large numbers of ADF personnel are upset with the current government and believe that a Liberal government will look after them much better. This is across the ranks - not just the military brass.

Its a matter of public record that the current government has struggled with the defence portfolio - a fair bit of tail wagging the dog seems to have occurred, so to speak. Ask Joel Fitzgibbon and Stephen Smith. There has also been suggestions that ADF personnel have a view that their allegiance is to the GG, not the PM.

As soon as combat activities wind back, I'm also told large numbers of personnel will depart the ADF. These are the adventure/adrenalin types who joined solely for that reason.

Scoob - I've lurked around this site and the politics forum for many years now, but in recent times my contributions have been curtailed by family responsibilities. It is fun to watch posters come and go, but Gozu, Q, Jimmy 41, Psyber, Southee and I (apologies if I've missed any other old timers so to speak), have traded conversations here for some time now Let's get Red and Black back too!

[dedja]

Whew ... glad I'm not an old timer

[Squawk]

Whew ... glad I'm not an old timer

Still waiting for your application mate LOL. The Post is a bit slow from Uranus I suspect.

[Gozu]

It's all good Squawk nothing personal admittedly had a little bit of a cranky day but some of the guff on here the right-wingers have been posting lately is staggering thankfully bulldogproud has been knocking them out of the park.

[Jimmy_041]

Vote 1 for Cory Bernardi as Defence Minister
Even the Yanks would think twice

[Psyber]

I have no idea which way that may push them - they could be hawks who would like a pro-war government, or they could be those who joined because they had no other hope in society and lean left.

Pretty much sums up the arrogance of right-wingers.

That response puzzled me, even from you.
I was expressing sympathy for those non-hawks so unfortunate that they have to risk their lives by joining the ADF.
I said they had no other hope - not that they were "no-hopers" as you seem to have assumed. There is a difference.
It is natural any in that situation would favour the promise - not always delivered on - of better welfare that the left tends to offer.

I see joining the military as a pretty desperate thing to do unless you are an innate hawk.
As a working class kid, I was prepared to commit myself to working for National Pharmacies for 5 years after graduation rather than take up a military scholarship.
(I was lucky. I won one of the Commonwealth ones, created by the Menzies government, that had no strings attached.)

My sample is inadequate, as all the people I have ever met, who had been in the forces, have been officers, and rather conservative/authoritarian in style.

I have no doubt officers and the military brass would lean towards the Libs. After all it's the Libs that continually throw bags of money at them.

All governments in Australia throw money at overseas military actions to keep on side with the Yanks. (Which I am not happy with.)
It is just that some governments expect them to do it with inadequate equipment and, now apparently, poor health service back up on their return.

[bulldogproud2]

It's all good Squawk nothing personal admittedly had a little bit of a cranky day but some of the guff on here the right-wingers have been posting lately is staggering thankfully bulldogproud has been knocking them out of the park.

Thanks, Gozu, and glad to have you back from a few days off.
Been a hard battle lately against these rightwingers
Btw, although I may be diametrically opposed to the viewpoints of these 'flat earth society' posters, I do love them as people

[scoob]

It's all good Squawk nothing personal admittedly had a little bit of a cranky day but some of the guff on here the right-wingers have been posting lately is staggering thankfully bulldogproud has been knocking them out of the park.

Thanks, Gozu, and glad to have you back from a few days off.
Been a hard battle lately against these rightwingers
Btw, although I may be diametrically opposed to the viewpoints of these 'flat earth society' posters, I do love them as people

Nothing like a good sweeping generalisation the yourself and Gozu are constantly rising against... the self righteousness of some posters is almost sickening.

[bulldogproud2]

It's all good Squawk nothing personal admittedly had a little bit of a cranky day but some of the guff on here the right-wingers have been posting lately is staggering thankfully bulldogproud has been knocking them out of the park.

Thanks, Gozu, and glad to have you back from a few days off.
Been a hard battle lately against these rightwingers
Btw, although I may be diametrically opposed to the viewpoints of these 'flat earth society' posters, I do love them as people

Nothing like a good sweeping generalisation the yourself and Gozu are constantly rising against... the self righteousness of some posters is almost sickening.

It is indeed, that is why Gozu and I have to post... the comments of a lot of the 'rightwing' posters appear incredibly righteous and have no facts to back them up

[Sky Pilot]

Okay how do you lefties explain the Order of Australia being handed out to Sachin Tendulka? He wasn't even there to collect it. The Indian press was given unfettered access to Gillard and her spin doctors and were given dvd's of her speech in parliament when she berated Abbott. She was hailed a hero yet nothing was balanced out giving Abbott's POV. You know - the other side of the story which is a habit socialists always overlook when facts interrupt their simplistic theories.
Tossing the AO to a faaaarking midget foreign cricketer is partially about currying favour with the Indian hierarchy and general populace to compensate for some of our homegrown thugs beating up - and sadly murdering - some Indian students. But the other reason is clearly to prop up at least a dozen marginal federal seats that have large Indian populations. My Burmese cat Ping can see through this sham.

[test]

Okay how do you lefties explain the Order of Australia being handed out to Sachin Tendulka? He wasn't even there to collect it. The Indian press was given unfettered access to Gillard and her spin doctors and were given dvd's of her speech in parliament when she berated Abbott. She was hailed a hero yet nothing was balanced out giving Abbott's POV. You know - the other side of the story which is a habit socialists always overlook when facts interrupt their simplistic theories.
Tossing the AO to a faaaarking midget foreign cricketer is partially about currying favour with the Indian hierarchy and general populace to compensate for some of our homegrown thugs beating up - and sadly murdering - some Indian students. But the other reason is clearly to prop up at least a dozen marginal federal seats that have large Indian populations. My Burmese cat Ping can see through this sham.

I was more annoyed that we are funding cricket academy's over there, they control the ICC as it is, why help them have better cricketers? Let them fend for themselves on the cricket field, and spend the money on our cricket development!!

[redden whites]

But the other reason is clearly to prop up at least a dozen marginal federal seats that have large Indian populations. .

No thought to the 1000's of Pakistan and Sri Lankan people who would hate it????

More classic comedy

[Sky Pilot]

But the other reason is clearly to prop up at least a dozen marginal federal seats that have large Indian populations. .

No thought to the 1000's of Pakistan and Sri Lankan people who would hate it????

More classic comedy

Nice angle RW. I'll be eating at my fav Indian restaurant - Beyong India on O'Connell street shortly and might ask for a complimentary naan bread or something.

[Sky Pilot]

Okay how do you lefties explain the Order of Australia being handed out to Sachin Tendulka? He wasn't even there to collect it. The Indian press was given unfettered access to Gillard and her spin doctors and were given dvd's of her speech in parliament when she berated Abbott. She was hailed a hero yet nothing was balanced out giving Abbott's POV. You know - the other side of the story which is a habit socialists always overlook when facts interrupt their simplistic theories.
Tossing the AO to a faaaarking midget foreign cricketer is partially about currying favour with the Indian hierarchy and general populace to compensate for some of our homegrown thugs beating up - and sadly murdering - some Indian students. But the other reason is clearly to prop up at least a dozen marginal federal seats that have large Indian populations. My Burmese cat Ping can see through this sham.

I was more annoyed that we are funding cricket academy's over there, they control the ICC as it is, why help them have better cricketers? Let them fend for themselves on the cricket field, and spend the money on our cricket development!!

Yeah, blow a few bucks on the Redbacks FFS! But seriously, the Indian movers and shakers are I believe the most corrupt going around apart from the Pakistani's, so a huge percentage of the coin we give them will be syphoned off to buy Rolexes, Porsches and beach houses for the glitterati. No doubt whatsover.

[southee]

But the other reason is clearly to prop up at least a dozen marginal federal seats that have large Indian populations. .

No thought to the 1000's of Pakistan and Sri Lankan people who would hate it????

More classic comedy

When you get media "set ups' in India with Musicians, Singers, Actors, Models and Indian Pollies all coming out to speak to the Australian press "How great and how wonderful" Julia Gillard is....I think it's safe to say it is for the Australian Indian population to vote for her. Once again it's the Labor Media "Spin" machine at work once again.

[bulldogproud2]

Okay how do you lefties explain the Order of Australia being handed out to Sachin Tendulka? He wasn't even there to collect it. The Indian press was given unfettered access to Gillard and her spin doctors and were given dvd's of her speech in parliament when she berated Abbott. She was hailed a hero yet nothing was balanced out giving Abbott's POV. You know - the other side of the story which is a habit socialists always overlook when facts interrupt their simplistic theories.
Tossing the AO to a faaaarking midget foreign cricketer is partially about currying favour with the Indian hierarchy and general populace to compensate for some of our homegrown thugs beating up - and sadly murdering - some Indian students. But the other reason is clearly to prop up at least a dozen marginal federal seats that have large Indian populations. My Burmese cat Ping can see through this sham.

Sky Pilot, what planet are you on???? You have most definitely done what you accused others of. Rather than them let facts interrupt THEIR simplistic theories, YOU have done exactly that!!
To answer some of your very wild, ridiculous assertions which pretty much show that you have no concept of world affairs:
1. The Indian press was not given unfettered access to the Prime Minister and her spin doctors. They could only access her via the press conferences which she held and these were brief.
2. The Indian press were NOT given dvd's of her speech in parliament. They accessed it the same way that most of us did - via news reports from Australia and also through it being on YouTube.
3. There is no reason why they could not have accessed Tony Abbott's comments - they have access to Australian press coverage

[bulldogproud2]

sorry, seemed to have run out of room on the above comment.

(continuation of 3) - they also have access to Hansard.
4. Although there may well have been political reasoning behind giving Tendulkar the honour, it was certainly not for the reason you gave. Please tell me the dozen Federal seats that are marginal to Labor and that are dependent on the voting of people of Indian heritage, please.
5. If you had any concept of world affairs, you would realise that India (along with China) is one of the two leading economies of the twenty-first century. It is a great idea to try to position Australia in such a way as to capitalise on this and seek trade opportunities. This is for YOUR benefit as much as for anyone else - it benefits the whole nation.
6. The way you describe Sachin Tendulkar is disgraceful and derogatory. Then again, why should I expect any different??
7. If this honour had been given to Sachin from someone on the conservative side of politics, I am pretty sure that you would not have been offended in the least. Please read some of the glowing comments that former Prime Minister John Howard made about Sachin. Did you ever complain about those???

Cheers