SA Footy

During the election campaign the liberals went to great pains to inform the electorate of the great danger Australia faced if labor was elected and that their cabinet and ministry would contain 70% former trade unionists.

The irony is that following recent leadership elections ,the liberal party voted Mr Brendan Nelson to lead the party. Mr Nelson is not only a former Union leader but also a former member of the labor party................

blueandwhite wrote:During the election campaign the liberals went to great pains to inform the electorate of the great danger Australia faced if labor was elected and that their cabinet and ministry would contain 70% former trade unionists.

The irony is that following recent leadership elections ,the liberal party voted Mr Brendan Nelson to lead the party. Mr Nelson is not only a former Union leader but also a former member of the labor party................

Wouldn't it only be ironic if Brendon Nelson occupied 70% of the shadow ministry then?

"You can't trust union leaders" was the thrust of the Liberal campaign. The claim of irony is highly appropriate.

McAlmanac wrote:"You can't trust union leaders" was the thrust of the Liberal campaign. The claim of irony is highly appropriate.

However the AMA has been a very ineffective and unmilitant union - the Medical Benefit Schedule fees have risen by only 64% of CPI since 1973, vastly increasing the gaps between it and the AMA schedule which has kept pace with CPI over the same period. However few doctors charge anything like the full AMA fee because most patients just could not afford the gaps.

The AMA has also been ineffective in keeping doctors working hours down to what would be considered safe and healthy levels in any other industry.

Mind you there were screams from the bureaucrats in the late 1960s when doctors got a bit militant and the Industrial Court in SA ruled against them being rostered on more than 85 hours a week, and awarded time and a quarter penalty rates for hours greater then 54 per week. At that time some doctors were rostered on duty at the RAH 120 hours per week on a fixed annual salary with no penalty rates at all.

At the end of the day, "you can't trust union leaders" was followed by the Liberals electing one from the past as their leader. A simple fact which is simply ironic. Nothing sinister - just amusing.

In any case, he looks like the short term fall guy for Turnbull or Costello to come along after the next election.

McAlmanac wrote:At the end of the day, "you can't trust union leaders" was followed by the Liberals electing one from the past as their leader. A simple fact which is simply ironic. Nothing sinister - just amusing.

In any case, he looks like the short term fall guy for Turnbull or Costello to come along after the next election.

They should probably have said, "You can't trust authoritarian socialist dogmatists." which would have been more accurate and a better distinguisher of the difference, but that may not have conveyed much to the public.

However, I noticed that group has already had a go at telling Rudd what to do. [And credit to him, he has stood up to them so far.]

http://au.news.yahoo.com/070830/2/14b4f.html

I am hoping Brendan's "leftie" tendencies have been reduced by recent experience and he will sit in the middle ground where Rudd has promised to stay too.

By the way do you see the Law Society in SA and the Law Institute in VIC. as "unions" too, and the Society of Chartered Accountants [or whatever it is called now]?

Yeah I would not call the AMA a "union" in that context myself .However the Anglican church "Mothers Union" may bring the country to its knees and they were not mentioned in the campaign

Psyber, I am a member of the Institute of Chartered Accountants in Australia.

Of course it's a union.

redandblack wrote:Psyber, I am a member of the Institute of Chartered Accountants in Australia.

Of course it's a union.

Fine I have no problem with that - I was asking to see if we had consistency of definition here. Now to hear what the lawyers say!

I'm for unions and united enterprise negotiations, and counting my student jobs have been a member of number of unions, but I don't like compulsion to join. The only one I resented was compulsory membership of the students' union at Adelaide Uni because I didn't need or use what they offered and objected to providing a training pitch for future politicians..

redandblack wrote:Psyber, I am a member of the Institute of Chartered Accountants in Australia.

Of course it's a union.

I've never thought of the Chartered Accountants as a union are you being sarcastic?

Psyber - please record me as a strong vote that the ICAA is NOT a Union

Maybe the AMA started out as a Union (?) but these days I struggle to see how its a Union either

Definitions of union on the Web:

* an organization of employees formed to bargain with the employer; "you have to join the union in order to get a job"
* the United States (especially the northern states during the American Civil War); "he has visited every state in the Union"; "Lee hoped to detach Maryland from the Union"; "the North's superior resources turned the scale"
* coupling: the act of pairing a male and female for reproductive purposes; "the casual couplings of adolescents"; "the mating of some species occurs only in the spring"
* the state of being joined or united or linked; "there is strength in union"
* marriage: the state of being a married couple voluntarily joined for life (or until divorce); "a long and happy marriage"; "God bless this union"
* healing process involving the growing together of the edges of a wound or the growing together of broken bones
* a political unit formed from previously independent people or organizations; "the Soviet Union"
* a set containing all and only the members of two or more given sets; "let C be the union of the sets A and B"
* the occurrence of a uniting of separate parts; "lightning produced an unusual union of the metals"
* a device on a national flag emblematic of the union of two or more sovereignties (typically in the upper inner corner)
* being of or having to do with the northern United States and those loyal to the Union during the American Civil War; "Union soldiers"; "Federal forces"; "a Federal infantryman"
* of trade unions; "the union movement"; "union negotiations"; "a union-shop clause in the contract"
* the act of making or becoming a single unit; "the union of opposing factions"; "he looked forward to the unification of his family for the holidays"

Howard stuffed up running a scare campaign about unions because quite frankly they're not as scary as Muslims(not trying to be racist, just a comment on how silly the Aust. Public is a bit stupid at times). The only person to realise this was Jackie Kelly's husband, but by then it was to late....

Psyber wrote: The only one I resented was compulsory membership of the students' union at Adelaide Uni because I didn't need or use what they offered and objected to providing a training pitch for future politicians..

I reckon you would have struggled to go through Uni without using some union service. The services, clubs and events that the Union funded gave the place culture and a sense of community. Now the place is like an "education" vending machine, pump in the money, take out a degree.

The only positive thing to come out of it is that there are less student pollies hassling come election week. I don't have to forego showers for a week anymore to keep them off me.

should unionism have been compulsory though andy?

In principle no, but practically it doesn't work otherwise, greater good and all that...

Andy #24 wrote:

Psyber wrote: The only one I resented was compulsory membership of the students' union at Adelaide Uni because I didn't need or use what they offered and objected to providing a training pitch for future politicians..

I reckon you would have struggled to go through Uni without using some union service. The services, clubs and events that the Union funded gave the place culture and a sense of community. Now the place is like an "education" vending machine, pump in the money, take out a degree.

Well I too like psyber resented the compulsory union membership. I collected the free stuff in my first year as my O week booklet said to. Forgot to do it the 2nd year and third the voluntary rules kicked in. Never used any other service other than the canteen facilities which had a small price rise since this all happened. Still get my newspapers at half price as like before the VSU

However I still pay my coin for my degree's student club even though I get farg all out of it.

heater31 wrote:

Andy #24 wrote:

Psyber wrote: The only one I resented was compulsory membership of the students' union at Adelaide Uni because I didn't need or use what they offered and objected to providing a training pitch for future politicians..

I reckon you would have struggled to go through Uni without using some union service. The services, clubs and events that the Union funded gave the place culture and a sense of community. Now the place is like an "education" vending machine, pump in the money, take out a degree.

Well I too like psyber resented the compulsory union membership. I collected the free stuff in my first year as my O week booklet said to. Forgot to do it the 2nd year and third the voluntary rules kicked in. Never used any other service other than the canteen facilities which had a small price rise since this all happened. Still get my newspapers at half price as like before the VSU

However I still pay my coin for my degree's student club even though I get farg all out of it.

Indeed it is. But that is pretty much the way it was going.

As for student unionism, give me a F******* break. Remember student election week at uni, ******* hell. You could go anywhere beause people wouldnt leave you alone. I did an engineering degree, I was there to study, and alot of people were in the same boat. I still went to the Bar at times but still I was there to study, not like some damn arts and hippy studies , but christ last time I checked the bar wasnt payed for by the bullshit union, and dont say it was - I know your going to, its like any pub. Anyway ill end the rant there as I suspect that Andy was a student pollie and after he reads this the gets to hell will open...

P.S andy dont get too offened, im am at times during this rant taking a bit off piss

Not a pollie mate I hate them, almost clobbered a few that got in my way. The Union does run the unibar, I think it was set up when John Bannon was the union pres. The Union runs unibooks and mayo too. They operate as stand alone businesses and student fees don't go into them but they are still run by the union.

Would it be different if the University charged a student services fee and provided the services themselves? I think the term union and the fact that people were compelled to join an organisation seperate to uni was what people objected too.

Andy #24 wrote:Not a pollie mate I hate them, almost clobbered a few that got in my way. The Union does run the unibar, I think it was set up when John Bannon was the union pres. The Union runs unibooks and mayo too. They operate as stand alone businesses and student fees don't go into them but they are still run by the union.

Would it be different if the University charged a student services fee and provided the services themselves? I think the term union and the fact that people were compelled to join an organisation seperate to uni was what people objected too.

Some of them are so annoying its painful. As for clobbering one of them, i doubt you would have been the first.

Would it be different, I think so, if that got rid of those student "professional students" pollies then yeah it would probably work.

I've always thought it was ironical how the Opposition is employed by the government (in a round about way).