Bennelong time?

[Gozu]

The now disgraced former Member for Bennelong made yet another appearance on Rupert's Sky News and in Rupert's Ltd News papers over the weekend. That's not the interesting part despite giving his word after the election loss he wouldn't be doing such things in the future, the interesting part are the comments on the article at Adelaide Now.

During weekdays pro-Liberal comments on that site would run at about 4:1 due to the Liberal Party hacks hitting up the political articles and the party have even admitted they do it. But this article appeared on Sunday the 8th when the Liberal hacks aren't at work and funnily enough look at the percentage of people who sink the slipper into "Honest John":

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/comm ... 01,00.html

[Psyber]

From a quick look at the article and the comments it looks like the Labor hacks were working too.
I guess it is predictable that some will never miss a chance to trot out the propaganda and denigrate anyone with a different point of view from theirs.
It really is unfortunate that extremists on either side bother to do this and clutter up the Internet with abuse.

It would be much more useful to have relatively unbiased and non-abusive debate about solutions to the problems.
In any large group of people there is going to be a diversity of opinion and values, without anyone being manifestly "right" or "wrong".
In an ideal world we would respect that diversity, and work towards consensus rather than try to stir up a war.
Class War is no longer viable - the edges of "class" are now too blurred.

I wasn't a fan of John Howard, but he was such an improvement on Paul Keating that he was acceptable.
I'm still not sure about Rudd - the dichotomy between what he says and what he does is confusing...

[Gozu]

"Zombie non-core promises"

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/purepoison/2 ... -promises/

[Psyber]

I had a look at the link. Crikey is clearly a leftie rag feeding the outer fringe of the party's patter to those who want it.
However, even so, it did say this at the start, confirming that JH has resisted being dragged in by the media at the drop of a hat:

the former PM has steadfastly refused requests for anniversary-type interviews, and he has also said repeatedly he would not “do a Keating” by commenting on domestic affairs, save to defend his record.

But some things just have to be commented on, and cannot be reasonably ignored.
The list of comments displayed is fairly small percentage of things that could have been commented on, had he not been holding back.
Think how many more PK would have gone on about at length [and abusively] had he been the one recently "succeeded"...

As I've said here before, I was never a big fan of JH and actively wrote to MPs about my view that WorkChoices had gone too far in terms of how large an organisation could terminate employment without warnings and cause, and about the fact that Hicks was held too long without representation and trial.

But whatever his faults, JH was better than the alternatives like Paul Keating and "Mad Mark", and some in between..
[I didn't mind Beasley - he seemed to be a reasonable and balanced man.]

[Gozu]

Just want to say first off Psyber that Crikey is not a fringe lefty organisation. You could make the argument about that specific blog housed by Crikey called "Pure Poison" which goes after intellectual dishonesty although it's not their fault most of the dishonesty in the press comes from the Right. Crikey was started originally by Stephen Mayne known as a shareholder activist and formerly from the Liberal Party.

It is now owned by a company headed by the former editor of the Sydney Morning Herald (Fairfax!..Leftists!!), Crikey's fomer editor was one Christian Kerr (he could hardly be described as anything other than right-wing) who has now found his rightful home at The Australian. Also it must be noted that Crikey's main writer their Canberra correspondent Bernard Keane admits he's a small "l" Liberal (raves about protectionism) and admires Malcolm Turnbull. Given some of the semi-regular pieces published in the daily email from people like Sinclair Davidson etc I'd consider Crikey a centrist/centre-left publication.

That quote you highlighted was from a link to The Punch's take on Howard's re-emergence. The Punch is News Ltd's blog designed to draw traffic to their papers and five minutes on that site tells you it's comfortably centre-right. Howard has made many public statements on Rudd and this government over the last two years Psyber so don't buy their crap like this is the first time. That Pure Poison thread links to just a few of the times he's popped up to pass his judgement on things despite promising he never would (just another of his non-core promises).

I can understand why some people didn't like Keating but I agree Beazley always came across as a decent person.

[Psyber]

Fair comment, Gozu. That link was my first sampling of anything from the Crikey site and may have given me a false impression.
I've heard Steven Mayne on radio, and I agree with him about executive salaries, and have thought of supporting him by going to AGMs too.
I have found some of his other social attitudes to seem a bit extreme though.

I'm not sure the political set of the site's owner would be, necessarily, reflected in the site.
It is aimed at a niche market and has to reflect the attitudes of its market, not of its owners, to be commercially successful.
And for some commerce comes before principle..

[Gozu]

And for some commerce comes before principle..

Funny you should say that as I was reading in Monday's email it seems a few new investors have come on board at Crikey which has seen some cost cutting happen and some believe an intention of making the publication more commercial in future.

[Psyber]

And for some commerce comes before principle..

Funny you should say that as I was reading in Monday's email it seems a few new investors have come on board at Crikey which has seen some cost cutting happen and some believe an intention of making the publication more commercial in future.

I hadn't heard about that - I was out at lunch with a former state Labor Minister today and have just got back and turned the computer on..
I'm told Land Tax relief on multiple holdings will be on the agenda before the next election.
Lots of Italian Australians invest in property because they trust it more than other forms of superannuation, and the tax is upsetting them - and they do tend to vote Labor...

[Gozu]

I hadn't heard about that - I was out at lunch with a former state Labor Minister today and have just got back and turned the computer on..
I'm told Land Tax relief on multiple holdings will be on the agenda before the next election.
Lots of Italian Australians invest in property because they trust it more than other forms of superannuation, and the tax is upsetting them - and they do tend to vote Labor...

Speaking of your infamous lunches, how's Alexander going? Lots of Italian Australians also invest in property because (a) they can and (b) they want to make more money. I have no doubt the tax is upsetting them, not too many Italian Australians seem to like paying tax and from my experience a lot of them are staunch right-wingers who hate Labor and routinely vote Liberal so...

[dedja]

Lots of Italian Australians also invest in property because (a) they can and (b) they want to make more money. I have no doubt the tax is upsetting them, not too many Italian Australians seem to like paying tax and from my experience a lot of them are staunch right-wingers who hate Labor and routinely vote Liberal so...

Mate, not sure where that info comes from!

LOL, North Eastern suburbs are labour strongholds ... plenty of Italians with large market garden and associated property holdings.

... and sorry for spoiling the Gozu/Psyber private party

[Gozu]

Firstly I apologise if I might have offended anyone with the rank stereotyping but that kind of info has been given to me by someone who may (or may not) have mafia links and were his opinions and those of his associates. He says no one he knows votes Labor.

[Psyber]

The Labor guy I referred to said the Italian vote was important to the Labor Party in SA, which was why Rann would do something about it in time for the next election.
He actually went to Italy and studied Italian at an adult language school there because of the importance of the high Italian component in the electorate he held for the Bannon government.
It was of course a legitimate part of his electoral expenses from his viewpoint.

[mick]

The Labor guy I referred to said the Italian vote was important to the Labor Party in SA, which was why Rann would do something about it in time for the next election.
He actually went to Italy and studied Italian at an adult language school there because of the importance of the high Italian component in the electorate he held for the Bannon government.
It was of course a legitimate part of his electoral expenses from his viewpoint.

The fact that someone with the talent of Vini Cicarello is an MP (surely the ALP could have found a better candidate?)speaks volumes with regard the ethnic Italian vote is held in by the ALP. Mike Rann's twittering (0n Twitter) in Italian is another example. My own personal observations is that most people I know of Italian background vote Labor, even those who are wealthy. I know one woman who has amassed an incredible property portfolio from being a single mum in a fibro house 15 years ago, still voted Labor after the State bank fiasco, still intends to vote for them even after her land tax bill multiplied 10 fold in a year.

[Psyber]

Lots of Italian Australians also invest in property because (a) they can and (b) they want to make more money. I have no doubt the tax is upsetting them, not too many Italian Australians seem to like paying tax and from my experience a lot of them are staunch right-wingers who hate Labor and routinely vote Liberal so...

Now guys, we'd better drop this.
Gozu wouldn't be wrong in his facts, or tell an untruth in the interests of propaganda..

[redden whites]

The fact that someone with the talent of Vini Cicarello is an MP (surely the ALP could have found a better candidate?)

Well she only had to beat Nigel Smart(surely the Libs could have found a better candidate).

[mick]

The fact that someone with the talent of Vini Cicarello is an MP (surely the ALP could have found a better candidate?)

Well she only had to beat Nigel Smart(surely the Libs could have found a better candidate).

I agree they could have, it still doesn't make her a good candidate apart from her ethnicity.

[Psyber]

I agree they could have, it still doesn't make her a good candidate apart from her ethnicity.

Presumably it is a seat where her ethnicity outweighs whatever other qualities she has or doesn't have.
It also points to the importance of the Italian vote to the party and why they will remove the "progressive" tax on multiple land holdings.
I'm all for them doing so because of my investment intentions, but it does seem a bit odd coming from the Labor party, until you understand the cynicism of vote harvesting.
Power over principle, or sensible flexibility?