Victorian State Election

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Re: Victorian State Election

Postby Strawb » Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:41 pm

Leaping Lindner wrote:
Strawb wrote:Yes that is true I wonder what will be happening there with the coalition. I have always wondered if the Nationals spilt from the coalition how would the libs ever hold government?


It's the only reason they put up with each other. It's not like they actually like each other. ;)

LMAO. But the National party never does anything for the country and people like us is all I ever heard living in the country. Election time nears the local member gives some money to the local sports clubs in grants and gets voted back in.
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Re: Victorian State Election

Postby southee » Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:18 pm

Leaping Lindner wrote:
mick wrote:Brumby has just conceded, it will be interesting to see whether the Coalition will persist with preferencing the Greens last in the upcoming NSW and QLD elections.


Not really an issue Mick. Labor is dead in the water in both states. The only reasons it was an issue in Victoria was that the Greens have a very strong inner city vote (30%+ first preference in some seats), and Brumby was in a seemingly much stronger position - see the odds from a couple ofweeks back when the Libs annouced the preference deal.


Labor is pretty much dead in every state :shock: !!!
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Re: Victorian State Election

Postby dedja » Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:17 pm

Seems to be the way in the last few years ... whenever there is a change Federally, the States turn to the other side.

Little Johnny had to put up with Labor states for a reasonable part of his tenure, so the tide is just turning as part of the cycle.

Although, it seems that NSW and QLD will be non-Labor for a good many years if the horror polls persist to their respective election days.
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Re: Victorian State Election

Postby Leaping Lindner » Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:43 pm

Turns out that Labor lost every electorate on the Frankston train line. Not suprisingly as that train service has been appalling. However these punters will be in for a shock when they realise that the Baillieu government won't be able to afford buy back the trains at inflated prices, that the Kennett government sold for a song, either. :twisted:
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Re: Victorian State Election

Postby Strawb » Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:47 pm

Leaping Lindner wrote:Turns out that Labor lost every electorate on the Frankston train line. Not suprisingly as that train service has been appalling. However these punters will be in for a shock when they realise that the Baillieu government won't be able to afford buy back the trains at inflated prices, that the Kennett government sold for a song, either. :twisted:

LOL funny thing is Metro Trains now have a 10 minute service on the Frankston line which amuses me alot. LL the trains are leased and owned by the government all Metro does is run them for the government. I.e. we cannot blame the government for the tripe service but we will blame Metro. I feel Metro are improving the trains and service but when Connex left and Metro took over everyone expected the service to be improved and alot better right away not giving it a chance to change.
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Re: Victorian State Election

Postby Psyber » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:31 pm

Leaping Lindner wrote:Turns out that Labor lost every electorate on the Frankston train line. Not suprisingly as that train service has been appalling. However these punters will be in for a shock when they realise that the Baillieu government won't be able to afford buy back the trains at inflated prices, that the Kennett government sold for a song, either. :twisted:
If they just hang in there the companies that bought them will be happy to hand them back free since they can't make a profit on them either.
[ IIRC at least one company that bought into Victorian transport already has - one of the tram companies I think it was when I was still living there.]
The point of selling them, even if it was cheaply, for which I don't have the figures on hand, was to rid the state of the unfunded superannuation liability.
The previous state government had spent the funds for that too. You have to factor that in to the worth of the deal...
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Re: Victorian State Election

Postby Strawb » Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:07 pm

Psyber wrote:
Leaping Lindner wrote:Turns out that Labor lost every electorate on the Frankston train line. Not suprisingly as that train service has been appalling. However these punters will be in for a shock when they realise that the Baillieu government won't be able to afford buy back the trains at inflated prices, that the Kennett government sold for a song, either. :twisted:
If they just hang in there the companies that bought them will be happy to hand them back free since they can't make a profit on them either.
[ IIRC at least one company that bought into Victorian transport already has - one of the tram companies I think it was when I was still living there.]
The point of selling them, even if it was cheaply, for which I don't have the figures on hand, was to rid the state of the unfunded superannuation liability.
The previous state government had spent the funds for that too. You have to factor that in to the worth of the deal...

The only trains that were sold was V/line freight which is now owned by Pat Nat. V/line passenger was leased to national express and the PTC ie Melbourne Trains are leased by companies national express and Connex. Which is now leased by MTR under the Metro Trains Banner.
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Re: Victorian State Election

Postby Psyber » Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:02 am

Strawb wrote: The only trains that were sold was V/line freight which is now owned by Pat Nat. V/line passenger was leased to national express and the PTC ie Melbourne Trains are leased by companies national express and Connex.
Which is now leased by MTR under the Metro Trains Banner.
Yes I thought is was trams not trains I recalled the fuss about while there..
I'm not sure what happened because I had family health issues occupying my time then, but I remember articles about one of the tram companies wanting to hand them back.
There was some debate about whether the government should go back to running them rather than look for a new lessee..
I assume they must have found another lessee or made a deal with the other tram lessee.
The state ALP government certainly didn't seem to want them back, despite some public and union pressure!
[ Which seemed to be something of an endorsement of the Kennett deal by the Victorian ALP.. ;) ]
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Re: Victorian State Election

Postby Strawb » Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:33 am

Psyber wrote:
Strawb wrote: The only trains that were sold was V/line freight which is now owned by Pat Nat. V/line passenger was leased to national express and the PTC ie Melbourne Trains are leased by companies national express and Connex.
Which is now leased by MTR under the Metro Trains Banner.
Yes I thought is was trams not trains I recalled the fuss about while there..
I'm not sure what happened because I had family health issues occupying my time then, but I remember articles about one of the tram companies wanting to hand them back.
There was some debate about whether the government should go back to running them rather than look for a new lessee..
I assume they must have found another lessee or made a deal with the other tram lessee.
The state ALP government certainly didn't seem to want them back, despite some public and union pressure!
[ Which seemed to be something of an endorsement of the Kennett deal by the Victorian ALP.. ;) ]

True but under connex instead of fixing a problem it was a patch up. I don't see Bellyache taking the railways back until all is fixed up and running smoothly.
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Re: Victorian State Election

Postby Gozu » Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:24 pm

Guy Rundle's analysis of the Victorian election result. It's behind the paywall so I did the cut & paste. Vic Labor sound very similar to SA Labor.

"Rundle: elecTed...now pass the gin and Kool Mints":

by Guy Rundle

Watching from across the waves, the Victorian election slowly play itself out, was quite an experience. From here it seemed clear that the odds were against the Brumby government and the late polls confirmed it.

Labor was going out as it had come in a decade ago, as the polls closed in the final days.

But the twitter feed of shock and horror was like energy coming out of a supernova, of the general lines of “how/whatthe/f-ck s-it b-lls/ted c-chicken f—-ing baillieu” etc, leavened only by one J. Sparrow’s slow and meticulously documented descent through a gin bottle (“8.20pm. Well, at least Wyatt Roy won’t win anything tonight … 8.09pm The result is patchy and unclear. Like a skin disease. Leprosy, perhaps … 7.50pm. This gin is starting to kick in. I best have one of Jeff Kennett’s Kool Mints to sober up”).

After the result — a loss, but hardly a crushing disaster — the ALP is consoling itself with the suggestion that it lost simply because its time was up, nothing to be done, electorate moves on, etc, etc. That suits the political careerists within the state political arena, who can happily see governments with minimal power change hands every decade, leaving one free to concentrate on the real business, maintaining control of the party.

It suits also the party strategists who lost the thing, a group now near wholly composed of student-politics bots, who drank the Kool-Aid at 18 and never looked back, or forward, or saw anything coming.

It’s all ambergris of course. A decade is not that long, and Labor had ample opportunity to keep itself in sufficient shape to gain another term, had there been enough thoughtfulness and genuine commitment at the centre to make it so.

Modern Victoria is a Labor-oriented state, a place that sees itself as left-centre social democratic. The ALP has held it for 22 of the past 30 years, and they got it back two terms after driving it into the ditch. The Liberal Party only made itself electable by becoming the last small-l liberal outfit in the country. The air of petty reactionary ressentiment that came off Dennis Napthine and Robert Doyle never appealed.

Baillieu saw that a different style was required — however different the substance remains to be seen — and he was lucky that, as he moved into that space, Labor willingly vacated it. Brumby Labor became such a creature of corporate power over everyday life — construction companies, retail giants, transport privateers — that it appeared at times to be a regional autocrat, administering the state on behalf of distant imperial rulers.

Over the past five years, through VCAT, the Met, the roads and God knows what else have p-ssed off such a vast number of suburban and regional Victorians that one would almost suspect it was the main purpose of their existence, with actual building freeways, etc, a side-line. It was blundering, it was stupid, and it was increasingly pig-headed and self-destructive. Labor got so p-ssed off with so many of the socially involved middle middle classes that make up its majorities, that it seemed more interested in ramming it up ‘em, than it did in rebuilding a winning coalition of voters and interests.

You wouldn’t believe it unless you saw it. Once you did, it was unmistakable. I remember seeing Rob Hulls address a meeting of suburbanites concerned by VCATocracy about five years ago, in his trademark lets-step-outside-and-i’ll-gut-you style. They were a mix of Labor and Liberal types who had rocked up.

They weren’t when he left, having systematically enraged a whole room of people who were simply interested in due process and the lack of democratic fairness in planning. It was a pretty impressive anti-achievement, and it appeared to be the expression of belligerent personality — which came to colour the whole government — rather than any genuine political imperative.

The roots of that failure were in an earlier success, of sorts, when Labor remade itself after the Kirner government. Labor was not only discredited but broke as a party. The rebuilding of it, by turning it into a corporate booster party powered by money flowing through the Progressive Business for Labor ginger group, could be defended as a necessary evil; it also had the effect of consolidating the power of the ultra-Right within the party, evil of a wholly superfluous kind.

That reconstruction got them back into the position whereby they could take advantage of the madness of King Jeff, but it also locked them into pretty hard-core relationship with the construction industry first off, followed by whatever global transport corp was being paid to mismanage public transport and so on. Kennett had started to falter when he meddled with the Auditor-General’s office, and Labor should have remembered that Victorian voters care about this stuff — in NSW Rene Rivkin could turn up with a blonde’s head on a spear and become leader of the legislative council. In Victoria, touch the Auditor-General and you pierce our heart.

Yeah, there’s other stuff. The fairly squalid — but exaggerated — mayhem in central Melbourne and other Laura Norder stuff plays a part, but what’s remarkable is how small a role this plays in the Libs’ pitch, and how much of what’s in there is leftish social liberalism. Baillieu is offering Victorians a different relationship to the state, and that’s what they voted him in for.
Labor could have had that too. Its relationship to the construction industry didn’t have to be quite so slavish, its handling of public transport quite so lackadaisically incompetent. It could have combined its boosterism with an acknowledgement that people wanted a say in the way their lived environment is shaped, and get sick of being told that full-scale bulldozing is all that stands between the state and insolvency.

It could have had that — had it not identified such an approach with the Cain/Kirner era, something they hated more even than Jeff Kennett. Baillieu took a leaf from David Cameron’s book and saw that conservative parties can give themselves a post-Thatcherite gloss and gain whole new tranches of voters. They’ll be out in a term if they don’t live up to it to some degree. If they do forge a new social liberal politics, they could be with us for some time.

And Labor will never be back in the game until it finds a way to recombine these themes in a way that goes beyond the ancient feuding of ghost Lefts and Rights. I suspect that almost anyone but Rob Hulls would be better for that job. And I’m certain that Labor will spend a couple of years taking the fight to anyone but the government. As the twitterrage expressed, they could have kept this one, had they really wanted it, but they were already in another place. Ah well, pass the gin, give us a Kool Mint, and let’s suck it and see.
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Re: Victorian State Election

Postby Psyber » Sat Dec 04, 2010 9:33 am

Strawb wrote: True but under connex instead of fixing a problem it was a patch up. I don't see Bellyache taking the railways back until all is fixed up and running smoothly.
That would only be sensible as doing otherwise would be undermine the original purpose of the privatisation.
I'm not in favour of public transport and utilities being privatised, but it was forced on us all by the massive debt.
On the other hand, such utilities kept in public hands need to be run under an independent trust so that governments cannot milk them for vote buying each election year like they do state Superannuation funds..
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Re: Victorian State Election

Postby Leaping Lindner » Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:18 pm

Psyber wrote:
Strawb wrote: True but under connex instead of fixing a problem it was a patch up. I don't see Bellyache taking the railways back until all is fixed up and running smoothly.
That would only be sensible as doing otherwise would be undermine the original purpose of the privatisation.
I'm not in favour of public transport and utilities being privatised, but it was forced on us all by the massive debt.
On the other hand, such utilities kept in public hands need to be run under an independent trust so that governments cannot milk them for vote buying each election year like they do state Superannuation funds..


Whilst millions were still poured into making the Casino, A car race and the pollies gave themselves a pay rise!! Kennett - Cretin with an agenda.
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Re: Victorian State Election

Postby Strawb » Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:04 pm

Leaping Lindner wrote:
Psyber wrote:
Strawb wrote: True but under connex instead of fixing a problem it was a patch up. I don't see Bellyache taking the railways back until all is fixed up and running smoothly.
That would only be sensible as doing otherwise would be undermine the original purpose of the privatisation.
I'm not in favour of public transport and utilities being privatised, but it was forced on us all by the massive debt.
On the other hand, such utilities kept in public hands need to be run under an independent trust so that governments cannot milk them for vote buying each election year like they do state Superannuation funds..


Whilst millions were still poured into making the Casino, A car race and the pollies gave themselves a pay rise!! Kennett - Cretin with an agenda.

Discribe Irony - Jeff Kennett a man who whilst premier made Victorian's depressed and now president of Beyond Blue. Beyond Blue do an awesome job it is such a pity they have him with them.
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Re: Victorian State Election

Postby Leaping Lindner » Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:11 pm

Strawb wrote:
Leaping Lindner wrote:
Psyber wrote:
Strawb wrote: True but under connex instead of fixing a problem it was a patch up. I don't see Bellyache taking the railways back until all is fixed up and running smoothly.
That would only be sensible as doing otherwise would be undermine the original purpose of the privatisation.
I'm not in favour of public transport and utilities being privatised, but it was forced on us all by the massive debt.
On the other hand, such utilities kept in public hands need to be run under an independent trust so that governments cannot milk them for vote buying each election year like they do state Superannuation funds..


Whilst millions were still poured into making the Casino, A car race and the pollies gave themselves a pay rise!! Kennett - Cretin with an agenda.

Discribe Irony - Jeff Kennett a man who whilst premier made Victorian's depressed and now president of Beyond Blue. Beyond Blue do an awesome job it is such a pity they have him with them.


And who whilst in Government cut back funding (and in many cases CLOSED outright) out patient facilities to Mental Health patients forcing already overworked bulk billing GPs to pick up the slack. And they weren't the people these patients should have been seeing. But now days he can get his head everywhere as head of Beyond Blue. Oh yeah he's a real renaissance man our Jeff. :roll:
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Re: Victorian State Election

Postby Strawb » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:53 pm

I am waiting to see what Bellyache will sell off ohh wait there is nothing left to sell after Jeff has sold everything. I have no respect for the Liberal Party never have or will. I don't trust them at all either yes the state was drowning in debt but there was and still is better things to do than have a fire sale.
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Re: Victorian State Election

Postby dedja » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:58 pm

Look-a-likes

Image Image
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Re: Victorian State Election

Postby Strawb » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:15 pm

dedja wrote:Look-a-likes

Image Image

Classic that one.
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Re: Victorian State Election

Postby Psyber » Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:48 am

Leaping Lindner wrote:
Psyber wrote:
Strawb wrote: True but under connex instead of fixing a problem it was a patch up. I don't see Bellyache taking the railways back until all is fixed up and running smoothly.
That would only be sensible as doing otherwise would be undermine the original purpose of the privatisation.
I'm not in favour of public transport and utilities being privatised, but it was forced on us all by the massive debt.
On the other hand, such utilities kept in public hands need to be run under an independent trust so that governments cannot milk them for vote buying each election year like they do state Superannuation funds..
Whilst millions were still poured into making the Casino, A car race and the pollies gave themselves a pay rise!! Kennett - Cretin with an agenda.
I agree with you about Kennett, I've never liked the man, although I think he thought the state would make money out of the Casino and the car race.
I don't know whether they have, but the Victorian ALP hasn't been in a hurry to get rid of them, so maybe they do and he was right??
Personally I think if governments are into making money out of gambling and heavy drinking, they may as well sell Heroin too. ;)

And there is a conflict between running the car race in city streets and allowing impossible tolerances for speeding offences like the current 2 kph margin now operative in Victoria.
Most older speedos can't even display a 2 kph difference..
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Re: Victorian State Election

Postby Gozu » Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:53 pm

"GP revenue slump contradicts crowd numbers":

As plummeting sales revenue for the Australian Formula 1 Grand Prix sends the event further into the major events mire, the race’s official attendance, which makes up the vast proportion of the revenue figure, has grown, according to organisers.

The release yesterday of Australian Grand Prix Corporation’s annual report made painful reading for Victorian taxpayers, when it was revealed they subsidised the event by a record $49.3 million in 2010.


http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/09/17/gp- ... d-numbers/

"The cup carnival strikes up the brand":

Unlike the grand prix, which has struggled in recent years to generate corporate or mainstream attention and last year lost more than $49 million, the Victorian Racing Club operates the spring racing carnival with virtually no taxpayer assistance (other than benefiting from a Victorian public holiday on Cup day and generous water allowances, which were not necessary this year). The grand prix also required a further $7.2 million in capital works at its Albert Park location, despite the Auditor-General finding the event created no economic benefit to Victoria.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/11/01/the ... the-brand/
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