Federal Government proposes a price on carbon.

[Psyber]

Australian governments are decided upon by 35% of the population.
The other 65% are that disinterested in other parties policies, that they will always vote for the same party regardless of their short comings.
Hence referendums will always struggle , majority of votes and a majority of states: - waste of time

Yes, we get the quality of "democracy" we deserve, due to our laziness.

[fish]

The "debate" on the proposed carbon tax has taken a sinister turn, with Independent MP Tony Windsor receiving death threats.

Independent MP Tony Windsor has called for restraint from talkback radio hosts and fellow MPs amid an increasingly vitriolic debate about the Government's carbon tax plans.

The independent MP drew parallels with the recent shooting of US congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, warning violent political rhetoric and "abuse" on the airwaves could provoke a similar tragedy in Australia.

His comments came after he revealed he had received a number of death threats over the issue...

Of course death threats against scientists and even high school students advocating action on climate are not new, but this is the first I've heard of an elected member receiving such threats.

[Psyber]

The "debate" on the proposed carbon tax has taken a sinister turn, with Independent MP Tony Windsor receiving death threats.
Independent MP Tony Windsor has called for restraint from talkback radio hosts and fellow MPs amid an increasingly vitriolic debate about the Government's carbon tax plans.
The independent MP drew parallels with the recent shooting of US congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, warning violent political rhetoric and "abuse" on the airwaves could provoke a similar tragedy in Australia.
His comments came after he revealed he had received a number of death threats over the issue...
Of course death threats against scientists and even high school students advocating action on climate are not new, but this is the first I've heard of an elected member receiving such threats.

Death threats happen more than one would expect, but are usually not anything but mouthing off - it is not always easy to tell when to take them seriously.
I've had a few in my time as a doctor over such simple issues as what I was prepared, or not, to put my name to on a sickness certificate or a Centrelink form.
Or whether I was prepared to write a certain type of prescription...

There was one occasion, in the late 1980s, when I took it seriously enough to talk to the police and, for a few weeks, they drove into my office premises' parking lot each evening about he time I usually left.
I didn't want to prosecute the guy because he was ill - paranoid disorder - so the Police and I made that compromise.
It was a little risky I suppose, and, in retrospect, perhaps I should have been more cautious and had him prosecuted..
Certainly, I was anxious enough to put the outside lights on a timer and look around before leaving the building to head for my car.
I also locked it immediately I was in it, for some months until he settled down.

A patient I saw with a similar disorder in 2005 didn't ever threaten me, but he did get found guilty of a murder committed a couple of years later in another state.

[Bully]

Like i said in a previuos topic i think IMO the carbon tax is the wrong thing. But i agree no need for death threats to pollys just vote them out at the next election would hurt them more.

Who the hell wants to pay ANOTHER 8-10 cents per litre for fuel!! Stupid idea like Rudds mining tax. Stupid amounts for fuel at the moment but when this comes in if it does then i will strugle to pay for fuel and it will cost more to actually goto work then to work with the industry i am in. Tempted to be on the dole or get a casual job and catch a train to work everyday.

[fish]

As far as fuel goes I wouldn't mind if the carbon tax was applied in full to urban users, as they have (in general) several options to reduce their fuel use through using public transport, walking, bicycles, car pooling, switching to smaller cars etc.

As for rural users I reckon the tax should be applied to fuel but it should be offset by a reduction in excise. Rural users have little ability to reduce their fuel use than their urban counterparts.

Maybe also tradies and others who need to use their vehicles for travel from job to job should not be subject to a price increase as they too have little ability to reduce their fuel usage.

[mick]

As far as fuel goes I wouldn't mind if the carbon tax was applied in full to urban users, as they have (in general) several options to reduce their fuel use through using public transport, walking, bicycles, car pooling, switching to smaller cars etc.

As for rural users I reckon the tax should be applied to fuel but it should be offset by a reduction in excise. Rural users have little ability to reduce their fuel use than their urban counterparts.

Maybe also tradies and others who need to use their vehicles for travel from job to job should not be subject to a price increase as they too have little ability to reduce their fuel usage.

Good point concerning rural users, hopefully someone in government has thought of it as well.

[Bully]

As far as fuel goes I wouldn't mind if the carbon tax was applied in full to urban users, as they have (in general) several options to reduce their fuel use through using public transport, walking, bicycles, car pooling, switching to smaller cars etc.

As for rural users I reckon the tax should be applied to fuel but it should be offset by a reduction in excise. Rural users have little ability to reduce their fuel use than their urban counterparts.

Maybe also tradies and others who need to use their vehicles for travel from job to job should not be subject to a price increase as they too have little ability to reduce their fuel usage.

thats my point. I already pay $70 dollars for fuel a week + more when its needed i dont feel the need to pay another $20 ontop of what i do. I do 700kms a week on a good week. Im sure they wont say well your a tradie you dont need to pay. That would be unfair to other road users. What about trucking companies??? Without trucks...australia stops!!!.

And me being a tradie i cant just catch the local bus to my next job with tools and ladders/laptops etc on a bus filled with 100 other people. Works for some maybe...not for all


and im sure the bus companies (private) dont want to have to put more busses on and pay more fuel for those.

[redandblack]

The good news, bulldog, is that no-one yet knows the detail of this carbon tax. Mr Abbott says it will be 6 cents a litre, which on a $70 fuel bill would be about $3 per week, not $20.

That's taking his estimate, which is not necessarily correct, as he himself admits.

On top of that, no-one yet knows the compensation package.

I hope this helps as I agree that tradies shouldn't be penalised.

I don't think they will be.

The income tax rates under the Government have decreased a lot since 2007 when they were elected.

[Bully]

but how can you prove this tho.

Surely when u go to pay for fuel at a servo you dont need to produce all this ID just to pay for fuel. This would open up a can of worms if they say well tradies dont get this tax on fuel, but others do. I can see the fights and problems occuring at servos if they did. Would never work. Would be good if they did but it can never work. To many people would try and beat it

[fish]

but how can you prove this tho.

Surely when u go to pay for fuel at a servo you dont need to produce all this ID just to pay for fuel. This would open up a can of worms if they say well tradies dont get this tax on fuel, but others do. I can see the fights and problems occuring at servos if they did. Would never work. Would be good if they did but it can never work. To many people would try and beat it

Tradies rorting the tax system - never!

[Bully]

but how can you prove this tho.

Surely when u go to pay for fuel at a servo you dont need to produce all this ID just to pay for fuel. This would open up a can of worms if they say well tradies dont get this tax on fuel, but others do. I can see the fights and problems occuring at servos if they did. Would never work. Would be good if they did but it can never work. To many people would try and beat it

Tradies rorting the tax system - never!

and no one else does this fish????? Hmmm ok everyone else are little angels

[Bully]

the point i am trying to make that this carbon tax wont suit everyone. It may some people but not all. Like everything it doesnt suit everyone.

Im not changing my career to keep in line with the government. Im sure if Julia was in my position she would be the same. I dont feel the need to pay MORE for fuel on already ridiculos pricings per litre for fuel already. Its cheapest in Brisbane this week was $1.31. The hike gets to $1.46. Another 6,7,8,9,10 cents whatever the amount is would push me and 100% of guys/girls/animals over the edge too to almost breaking point.. I try and fill up when its at its cheapest but doesnt always work.It was hard enough at $1.62 almost 2 years ago when fuel was expensive.

I know who has my vote this time around!! Its my opinion and thats the way i feel.

[Gozu]

Im not changing my career to keep in line with the government.

Yeah but you're not being rational though. The increase would be very minimal indeed but aside from that how about all this unrest in Libya with Gaddafi. That's increasing petrol prices. Should the repressed and brutalised Libyan public be a bit more thoughtful about you not wanting to forego a cup of coffee a week?

[redandblack]

bulldog, it seems as if you've made up your mind regardless. You ask us how we can prove what we're saying, but you're accepting the opposite without any proof from the opponents of this.

It's $3 per week on your worst figures. That can be compensated for and it may not be at the petrol pump, but possibly through your tax or GST return as a rebate.

As Gozu says, it is minimal against the price fluctuations caused by Middle East unrest.

To say you may have to change your career because of a possible, but equally unlikely $3 a week extra isn't rational.

When (and if) we know the detail, surely that's the time to decide.

[Bully]

$3 dollars a week. Increases to $4 dollars a week, increase to $5 dollars a week, increase $6 dollars a week. And you all dont know my situation and i am just expressing my view on this forum .


I refuse to accept this carbon tax and its policies. I dont feel the need to keep increasing my fuel bill. Its MY choice wether i vote for this or not. I dont need people telling me whom to vote for or just 'accept it'. I wont accept it as its a free country to do what i want.

i know for a fact having an uncle whom drives trucks for Toll frieght that company is standing up against it. So im not the only one in the country

[Bully]

bulldog, it seems as if you've made up your mind regardless. You ask us how we can prove what we're saying, but you're accepting the opposite without any proof from the opponents of this.

It's $3 per week on your worst figures. That can be compensated for and it may not be at the petrol pump, but possibly through your tax or GST return as a rebate.

As Gozu says, it is minimal against the price fluctuations caused by Middle East unrest.

To say you may have to change your career because of a possible, but equally unlikely $3 a week extra isn't rational.

When (and if) we know the detail, surely that's the time to decide.

and your not accepting the other side to the carbon tax either. Your pointing out the so called benefits to this tax, yet not seeing the other side of the story

[redandblack]

Hardly, bulldog, I've accepted for this debate that the worse case scenario is exactly as Tony Abbott says

So be it though, you've very, very, obviously made up your mind, regardless of what anyone will say, which is your prerogative.

For those who want to know the broad brush of how this will work, here it is.

I don't make any statement as to whether this will work, just as an explanation.

Ms GILLARD–Let me explain in detail our mechanism for pricing carbon. The first proposition is an incredibly simple one. At the moment carbon pollution can be released into the atmosphere for free. There is no disincentive for doing that. We will put a price on carbon, a price on every unit of carbon pollution. It will be paid for by businesses and as a result, because our business community is smart and adaptable and innovative, they will work out ways of pursuing their business and generating less carbon pollution. They will work out ways of making sure they pay less of a price when carbon is priced.

Then they will enter into contracts, they will make investments on the basis of understanding the rules and understanding that carbon will be priced. And as they go about making those transitions, innovating, making the new investments of the future, we will work with those businesses in transition to a clean economy.

Having priced carbon and seen that innovation, yes, there will be pricing impacts; that is absolutely right. That is the whole point: to make goods that are generated with more carbon pollution relatively more expensive than goods that are generated with less carbon pollution. But because we are a Labor government this will be done in a fair way. We will assist households as we transition with this new carbon price.

What that means is that people will walk into a shop with money in their pocket, the government having provided them with assistance. They will see the price signals on the shelves in front of them—things with less pollution, less expensive; things with more pollution, more expensive—and they too will adapt and change. They will choose the lower pollution products, which is exactly what we want them to do. Between the business investment and innovation, between households who have been assisted in a fair way by a Labor government responding to price signals, we will see a transition to a cleaner economy, to a low-pollution economy.

[Bully]

not everyone accepts what the PM says or brings into line.

You cant tell me that you have accepted everything that every PM or premier has brought to the table you have agreed to.

I dont agree to this tax like alot of others out there. In fact, you are telling me the so called benefits to this carbon tax or the minimal expenses it brings yet i dont see the benefits of increasing any bills wether it be electrcity/water/fuel/consumer products. If you want to pay MORE for things then thats your call.

[redandblack]

Mate, I haven't said anything about any benefits of this tax.

You're strongly arguing against whatever anyone says and I've said that's your right.

I'm not trying to change your mind - you've made it obvious that won't happen, regardless of what's said.

For other readers, when you compare the income tax rates on $50000 and $75000 on the tax rates before Labor were in and now, it's about $15 a week less on $50K and about $35 a week less on $75K, not counting extra rebates, etc.

[Bully]

Mate, I haven't said anything about any benefits of this tax.

You're strongly arguing against whatever anyone says and I've said that's your right.

I'm not trying to change your mind - you've made it obvious that won't happen, regardless of what's said.

For other readers, when you compare the income tax rates on $50000 and $75000 on the tax rates before Labor were in and now, it's about $15 a week less on $50K and about $35 a week less on $75K, not counting extra rebates, etc.

R+B. Im not saying your wrong or anyone else is wrong here at all mate. I am getting told that this tax is correct and its minimal extras on things like fuel. I have no beef with anyone on here about this tax. I am getting told i am not seeing the benefits of this tax and the other side to the story yet no one else is realising my side.

Instead of taxing people. Maybe the government should encourage community events for locals to meet instead of everyone going home, switching on the TVs/air conds/heathers and paying more? Why not meet up with your mates down the loacl park after work instead of going home and switching on the TV and using more carbon and paying more tax. Why not meet or take your family down the local park after work and have some fresh air instead of going home and sitting on the lounge with the air cond on or heater and paying more for carbon with this tax.
Maybe the goverment like with the water should say sch and such numbered houses can use power for certain things on this day and the other the next???