Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

[Jimmy_041]

Appointing a Minister for ANZAC Day but no Minister for Aged Care, Disability Services, Science nor Multicultural Affairs. Are you saying nothing will happen with Aged Care, Disability Services, Science and Multicultural Affairs because there's no Minister named whereas most have been included in the Social Services portfolio? That's a Ruddism giving names to everything without actually doing anything. Hysterical comment about nothing

Secondly, political interference resulting in Abbott's Chief of Staff getting off a DUI despite pleading guilty. Political Interference? The future AG submitted a letter attesting to her good character the same as any person can ask any other person to do the same. Are you suggesting the judge was got at? I'd report him to ICAC then if I was you

Thirdly, the appalling situation re only one woman in Cabinet. Appalling?? Which coalition women do you think should be in there and why, or do you think there should just e more in there? It has worked so well for SA Labor. Hysterical comment about nothing

Fourthly, creating huge problems with Indonesia over foreign policy. What huge problems or do you mean? Bishop being shunted around for a photo? See next for further comment

Fifthly, having nothing to say but 'no comment' when asylum seekers died at sea. The ones that died in another country's waters? And they did comment actually - google Matthias Cormann. Maybe its time for Indonesia to take some action about their leaking borders to stop these people dying.

Sixthly, the Deputy Leader and the Attorney General being found guilty of misappropriating taxpayer funds. Found guilty by whom?

Seventhly, deciding that their NBN policy was not correct after all and going back to the drawing board to nut out a new policy. I cant find anything on this one - lead me in the right direction to what you mean

Eighthly, despite going on for years and years re the need for a surplus, announcing that they will not be aiming for a surplus at all in their term. You Labor people said Abbott would slash and burn as soon as he got to power. Now you're pissed because he's not doing it. That is laughable. Changing a deficit that size will take time and at least they're going to aim for it unlike your economic vandal mates

Ninthly, the debacle Chris Pyne has already made of the Education portfolio, with very poor ideas re student amenities and caps on education. He has already made it clear he only wants children from wealthy families to receive a university education. I heard him speak on the ABC - did you? He has made no decision on either student amenities or caps on education. He said he was reviewing the demand-driven system & that, although he was personally was against compulsory student services fees, he had no plans to scrap them & the issue was a very low priority. Hysterical comment about nothing

Tenthly, sacking heads of important departments simply because they don't agree with Abbott's political view. Happens with every change of government. Hardly a stuff up. Hysterical comment about nothing

Eleventh, seeing the whole board of the NBN resign because of the dreadful policy of the new government. Well, they were appointed by another government to do what they wanted, not what this government wanted, so they really had no choice. For further information, please see point 10. And they have done such a great job, haven't they? What's the blow out worth now?

[bulldogproud2]

Appointing a Minister for ANZAC Day but no Minister for Aged Care, Disability Services, Science nor Multicultural Affairs. Are you saying nothing will happen with Aged Care, Disability Services, Science and Multicultural Affairs because there's no Minister named whereas most have been included in the Social Services portfolio? That's a Ruddism giving names to everything without actually doing anything. Hysterical comment about nothing

Secondly, political interference resulting in Abbott's Chief of Staff getting off a DUI despite pleading guilty. Political Interference? The future AG submitted a letter attesting to her good character the same as any person can ask any other person to do the same. Are you suggesting the judge was got at? I'd report him to ICAC then if I was you

Thirdly, the appalling situation re only one woman in Cabinet. Appalling?? Which coalition women do you think should be in there and why, or do you think there should just e more in there? It has worked so well for SA Labor. Hysterical comment about nothing

Fourthly, creating huge problems with Indonesia over foreign policy. What huge problems or do you mean? Bishop being shunted around for a photo? See next for further comment

Fifthly, having nothing to say but 'no comment' when asylum seekers died at sea. The ones that died in another country's waters? And they did comment actually - google Matthias Cormann. Maybe its time for Indonesia to take some action about their leaking borders to stop these people dying.

Sixthly, the Deputy Leader and the Attorney General being found guilty of misappropriating taxpayer funds. Found guilty by whom?

Eighthly, despite going on for years and years re the need for a surplus, announcing that they will not be aiming for a surplus at all in their term. You Labor people said Abbott would slash and burn as soon as he got to power. Now you're pissed because he's not doing it. That is laughable. Changing a deficit that size will take time and at least they're going to aim for it unlike your economic vandal mates

Ninthly, the debacle Chris Pyne has already made of the Education portfolio, with very poor ideas re student amenities and caps on education. He has already made it clear he only wants children from wealthy families to receive a university education. I heard him speak on the ABC - did you? He has made no decision on either student amenities or caps on education. He said he was reviewing the demand-driven system & that, although he was personally was against compulsory student services fees, he had no plans to scrap them & the issue was a very low priority. Hysterical comment about nothing

Tenthly, sacking heads of important departments simply because they don't agree with Abbott's political view. Happens with every change of government. Hardly a stuff up. Hysterical comment about nothing

Eleventh, seeing the whole board of the NBN resign because of the dreadful policy of the new government. Well, they were appointed by another government to do what they wanted, not what this government wanted, so they really had no choice. For further information, please see point 10. And they have done such a great job, haven't they? What's the blow out worth now?

Im taking the dogs for a walk so will come back to the NBN policy. Hopefully you've got through the above.

Am glad you had the courage to respond, Jimmy. Good to see. I hate it when people just dismiss an argument with a 'bollocks' or 'tripe' without providing comment on why they believe it is. Now, to gently correct your errors of above:

Going on your first point, it would seem that you would just like to have a government with only one Minister and one department. Admittedly, this is what Abbott would love to have, silencing any member of the coalition from speaking to the press, except to toe the party line. If you place importance on an issue, you need to provide sufficient resources to it. Creating an actual portfolio, dedicating a Minister and more resources does this. Under the scheme you approve of, these important functions of Science, Disability Services, Aged Care, Multiculturalism etc will be hidden within another portfolio with very little attention devoted to them. Please explain to me why Anzac Day is more important and more worthy of a separate portfolio than any of these four.

Secondly, she pleaded guilty but was given a 'not guilty' result at the urging of Brandis. Yes, you can ask for a reference etc. about your good character but in every other circumstance, this has still resulted in a 'guilty' result. Definite political interference.

Third, you are saying that there is not ONE woman apart from Julie Bishop who is worthy of a ministry??? God, your argument here just totally supports mine in saying how appallingly women are represented in the coalition.

Fourthly and fifthly, it took a number of hours before any member of the coalition responded. Both Tony Abbott and Scott Morrison declined to comment on what was a very important issue. Yes, try to fob it off as Indonesia's problem but the coalitions's policy is to look after all boats heading from Indonesia to Australia, no matter whose water they are in at the time.

As for creating huge problems with Indonesia over foreign policy, have you been totally deaf to the comments of the Indonesian government?? They have indicated distress with aspects of the coalition's policy and are unwilling to support it. Julie Bishop gave a totally contrary report to her meeting with government officials to what Indonesia have stated happened.

Sixthly, you obviously have not caught up with the news today that both George Brandis and Barnaby Joyce have admitted to misappropriating taxpayer funds to attend a 'shockjock's' wedding. George Brandis has now even repaid the amount he misappropriated, but two years after it happened!!

On the eighth point, are you now stating that Tony Abbott never criticised the Labor Government for running deficit budgets???? Come on now, that is laughable!! How many times prior to the election did Tony state that the Liberal Government would ALWAYS run surplus budgets and that running deficits was terrible for Australia?? Now they are in government, the tune has totally turned.

Ninthly, fortunately I have closer access to Christopher Pyne than having to listen to ABC commentary. Fortunately Chris is a member of our College community. He has stated that he DOES desire to place a cap on education places and to get rid of compulsory student amenity fees. He has even gone further and stated that his ultimate aim is to abolish the HECS/HELP system and make all university places fully fee-paid.

Tenth, please provide evidence about the sacking of department heads happening with every government. Department heads are independent of political parties and HAVE NOT been sacked by previous governments. Have you not heard of the Separation of Powers???

Cheers

[The Sleeping Giant]

All for a minister for Anzac Day.

[Q.]

The 'budget emergency' posturing during the election campaign was just that - posturing. There is no emergency. Despite it being a backflip, abandoning the promise to return the budget to surplus may help to wean the public off it's fixation with it.

[Jimmy_041]

Courage to reply bp2
I just had better things to do today like read a book

[Jimmy_041]

Now, to gently correct your errors of above:

Going on your first point, it would seem that you would just like to have a government with only one Minister and one department. Admittedly, this is what Abbott would love to have, silencing any member of the coalition from speaking to the press, except to toe the party line. If you place importance on an issue, you need to provide sufficient resources to it. Creating an actual portfolio, dedicating a Minister and more resources does this. Under the scheme you approve of, these important functions of Science, Disability Services, Aged Care, Multiculturalism etc will be hidden within another portfolio with very little attention devoted to them. Please explain to me why Anzac Day is more important and more worthy of a separate portfolio than any of these four. Hysteria. So, you would like four more Ministers? Come back with some real proof that they aren't providing sufficient resources. Here is Abbott's comment as to why he did it:

Abbott removes portfolios, avoids 'grandiose' titles
When announcing his new ministry, Mr Abbott said he wanted to avoid "title inflation".
"You may notice that one of the things that I have attempted to do with this new ministry is avoid the proliferation of titles, the sometimes grandiose titles of the former government where it sometimes seemed that ministers needed an extra large business card to contain all of their various titles," he said.
"Thankfully I think we've got some title deflation as a result of this ministry.
"I am trying to avoid a situation where unless something is specifically mentioned in someone's title, it is unimportant.
"There are some things that are so important that in a sense every minister should be concerned about them."

I'll wait to see what happens with it before making stupid remarks.
"Under the scheme I approve of" where have I said that? I have no idea why they have Minister for Anzac Day so I'll wait to see what happens with it before making stupid remarks like they think ANZAC Day is more important than social security.

Secondly, she pleaded guilty but was given a 'not guilty' result at the urging of Brandis. Yes, you can ask for a reference etc. about your good character but in every other circumstance, this has still resulted in a 'guilty' result. Definite political interference. All I can do is read the reports and they say he gave a character reference and you are actually making some pretty bad defamatory remarks about the Magistrate. You are obviously intimately involved in this case and have inside information about it. I think it stinks too but I hope you have some proof if he ever reads this because you are very definite that there is corruption involved and they get a bit funny about that sort of comment. Good luck with that

Third, you are saying that there is not ONE woman apart from Julie Bishop who is worthy of a ministry??? God, your argument here just totally supports mine in saying how appallingly women are represented in the coalition. No, I just asked you to name some that are worthy, considering you are so outraged.

Fourthly and fifthly, it took a number of hours before any member of the coalition responded. Both Tony Abbott and Scott Morrison declined to comment on what was a very important issue. Yes, try to fob it off as Indonesia's problem but the coalitions's policy is to look after all boats heading from Indonesia to Australia, no matter whose water they are in at the time.
It was in Indonesian waters and maybe they wanted to get proper information before commenting. It now emerges that the boat was 50m off the Indonesian shore. Fob off as Indonesian's problem One of them rings his family in Melbourne so its our problem. On the ABC tonight, the boat people were saying the Indonesian Navy were forcing them out to sea. How's your precious Indonesian Government looking now? I'm sure the Indos would love an Australian gunship 50m off their shores......

As for creating huge problems with Indonesia over foreign policy, have you been totally deaf to the comments of the Indonesian government?? They have indicated distress with aspects of the coalition's policy and are unwilling to support it. Julie Bishop gave a totally contrary report to her meeting with government officials to what Indonesia have stated happened.
So, without any proof of content of the meeting, you prefer to accept the reports from the Indos than your own Foreign Minister. Very convenient when it suits you. I've worked in Indonesia. I'd trust them with every cent I had. Of course the Indonesians dont like it. It makes them actually have to do something. They'd rather just let them drown. See previous point as well.

Sixthly, you obviously have not caught up with the news today that both George Brandis and Barnaby Joyce have admitted to misappropriating taxpayer funds to attend a 'shockjock's' wedding. George Brandis has now even repaid the amount he misappropriated, but two years after it happened!! I ask again: found guilty by whom? I'll accept they are guilty (and Slipper and Thomson) when properly charged, tried and actually found guilty. A bit like a few of you hanging Cory Bernardi only to suffer the embarrassment of SMH having to admit to making it all up and apologising.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/apology-to-senator-cory-bernardi-20130412-2hqgl.html

On the eighth point, are you now stating that Tony Abbott never criticised the Labor Government for running deficit budgets???? Come on now, that is laughable!! How many times prior to the election did Tony state that the Liberal Government would ALWAYS run surplus budgets and that running deficits was terrible for Australia?? Now they are in government, the tune has totally turned. Sorry, I dont know that they said they would ALWAYS run budget surpluses. I'll have to take your word on that, but would be glad if you could give me a link to that statement. So, you'd be quite happy for Abbott to slash and burn from the start. He cant get any more income so someone's going to have to suffer. But, that would just give you a different cause to complain

Ninthly, fortunately I have closer access to Christopher Pyne than having to listen to ABC commentary. Fortunately Chris is a member of our College community. He has stated that he DOES desire to place a cap on education places and to get rid of compulsory student amenity fees. He has even gone further and stated that his ultimate aim is to abolish the HECS/HELP system and make all university places fully fee-paid. Well, it looks like you have a privileged place again (ACT Magistrates Court and Pyne College) I can only say what he said last week. Lets see if he brings it all in. Cant wait for the abolition of HECS/HELP - how long before he abolishes it so you can say I told you so? I'll stick my neck out and say its absolute bull$hit. BTW, thanks to Paul Keating for introducing fees in the first place. Conveniently forgotten in the passage of time

Tenth, please provide evidence about the sacking of department heads happening with every government. Department heads are independent of political parties and HAVE NOT been sacked by previous governments. Have you not heard of the Separation of Powers??? Well aware of separation of powers but Keating removed it. Here you go: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/top-mandarins-arent-forever/story-e6frfkp9-1226724729415#mm-premium


Cheers[/quote]

[bulldogproud2]

Okay, to try to help you once again, Jimmy.
You stated that there should be no concern re there not being separate ministries for Aged Care, Disability Services, Multicultural Affairs and Science as they can be covered by another Ministry.
If you extend your argument to its logical conclusion, then there is no need to have any more than one ministry as ALL things can be covered by that one ministry.
Even the quote you provide from Tony Abbott re 'grandiose titles' can easily be seen through. What is grandiose about having Science or Disability Services or Aged Care or Multicultural Affairs in a title???? Surely these portfolios should be some of the most important in Australian society today?? Surely if you are going to remove 'grandiose titles' you remove titles that are less important?? That is what any sensible person would do. So, therefore, are you saying that the Arts are more important than Science, Anzac Day is more important than Aged Care or Disability Services, the Public Service is more important than Multicultural Affairs??
Also, how does adding one or two words to the title of a Ministry make it that much more 'grandiose'?? Let's face it, he just stuffed up

Secondly, in all other cases where a reference has been used to support a defendant in their case it has been to reduce the penalty, not to turn a 'guilty' plea to a 'not guilty' decision. Let us not forget that this is not the first time that Senator Brandis has interfered in the justice process.

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2860776.html

Thirdly, what I was appalled at with Abbott's decision to appoint only one woman to the front bench was the fact that he only saw one woman fit to handle a Ministry. This is a sad indictment of the state of affairs of the coalition, a point which you seem to have agreed with. There may not be any worthy, but that is not the good thing that you seem to think it is, that is a really poor indictment on the party.

Regarding Australia's relationship with Indonesia being in trouble due to their policy of 'turning back the boats' it has been reported numerous times that Indonesian authorities find this policy to be, and I quote here:

"During the election campaign, Mahfudz Siddiq, the head of Indonesia's parliamentary Foreign Affairs Commission, warned of the implications of the Coalition’s Operation Sovereign Borders. “It's an unfriendly idea coming from a candidate who wants to be Australian leader,” Siddiq told AAP in July. “That idea shows how he sees things … Don't look at us, Indonesia, like we want this people smuggling."

“This is really a crazy idea, unfriendly, derogatory and it shows lack of understanding in this matter.”

It is seen as meddling in Indonesia's affairs and it is also illegal. How would we like it if Indonesia meddled in our affairs??
For more on this:
https://newmatilda.com/2013/09/19/abbot ... stop-boats

Regarding George Brandis and Barnaby Joyce misappropriating funds, the claims they lodged with the Department of Finance are enough proof of them having claimed funds just to attend a friend's wedding. Additionally the fact that George Brandis has now been shamed into pay it back is pretty much an admission of guilt, is it not.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ ... 2ul6a.html

Regarding Abbott's statements about economic management, I encourage you to read the following:

http://www.independentaustralia.net/201 ... t-15-lies/

Oh, and to say that Keating removed the Separation of Powers from Australian law is total bunkum and you know it!!! The separation of powers is still part of our legal system and I, for one, am sure glad it is!!
Also, the News (not surprisingly) made an error in the article you quoted. Michael L'Estrange was kept on by both the Rudd and Gillard governments. Neither sacked any departmental heads at all in their terms. Additionally, laws were brought in earlier this year which were meant to protect the positions of departmental heads.

http://www.psnews.com.au/Featurespsn3801.html

As for the Corey Bernardi apology, as stated in the article it was the Fairfax press that were apologising. I don't seem to recall anyone from the Labor party ever querying his expenses, do you?? Oh, and whilst on Corey Bernardi, you are happy to have a man who states that homosexuality is one step away from polygamy and beastiality representing your party???
This is the same man, by the way, who made wrongful accusations against Tony Abbott's sister and was also stood down from the front bench:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nationa ... 665930376#

Finally, yes, it is good to be a staff member at Saint Ignatius College and to sit down with Christopher Pyne, the father of my students, and have a chat about his views and future policies for education.

Cheers

[shoe boy]

Since the election Tony has gone missing??
Will he be well received in Indonesia today?

[Jimmy_041]

bp2 - let's agree to disagree because there is no common ground so no use arguing.

One thing for sure, your views and statements about Abbott and Pyne only reinforce my views on the Jesuit Order.
I hope that the next time you talk with Pyne, you remind him of what he has said publically and what he has told you privately.

[woodublieve12]

Since the election Tony has gone missing??
Will he be well received in Indonesia today?

yes...
no he won't be...

Sack Tony FFS

[Psyber]

Secondly, she pleaded guilty but was given a 'not guilty' result at the urging of Brandis. Yes, you can ask for a reference etc. about your good character but in every other circumstance, this has still resulted in a 'guilty' result. Definite political interference.

As I pointed out a week or so ago, pleading guilty does not automatically result in a fine or even a conviction.
I gave the example then of my fronting up on a serious traffic offence in 1987 and the Magistrate recording no conviction after my guilty plea, after he had listened to the circumstances operating at the time. I didn't have a letter from an MP testifying to my good character but did from a number of GPs.

Though no conviction was recorded, and I was not fined, I was ordered to pay $142.00 court costs.
I was also on a bond for 15 months which restricted me to driving for my work only.
(Effectively I had 1 point for the 15 months.)

[Q.]

Secondly, she pleaded guilty but was given a 'not guilty' result at the urging of Brandis. Yes, you can ask for a reference etc. about your good character but in every other circumstance, this has still resulted in a 'guilty' result. Definite political interference.

As I pointed out a week or so ago, pleading guilty does not automatically result in a fine or even a conviction.
I gave the example then of my fronting up on a serious traffic offence in 1987 and the Magistrate recording no conviction after my guilty plea, after he had listened to the circumstances operating at the time. I didn't have a letter from an MP testifying to my good character but did from a number of GPs.

Though no conviction was recorded, and I was not fined, I was ordered to pay $142.00 court costs.
I was also on a bond for 15 months which restricted me to driving for my work only.
(Effectively I had 1 point for the 15 months.)

It's not 1987 anymore. These days the courts have a zero tolerance policy to drink driving.

[bulldogproud2]

Secondly, she pleaded guilty but was given a 'not guilty' result at the urging of Brandis. Yes, you can ask for a reference etc. about your good character but in every other circumstance, this has still resulted in a 'guilty' result. Definite political interference.

As I pointed out a week or so ago, pleading guilty does not automatically result in a fine or even a conviction.
I gave the example then of my fronting up on a serious traffic offence in 1987 and the Magistrate recording no conviction after my guilty plea, after he had listened to the circumstances operating at the time. I didn't have a letter from an MP testifying to my good character but did from a number of GPs.

Though no conviction was recorded, and I was not fined, I was ordered to pay $142.00 court costs.
I was also on a bond for 15 months which restricted me to driving for my work only.
(Effectively I had 1 point for the 15 months.)

Psyber, pleading guilty can NEVER (except remarkably in this one case, and one case only) result in you ending up with an actual 'NOT GUILTY' verdict though. This has been the only time EVER in Australia's legal history that this has happened. Yes, you can be given no conviction, but that is not the same as a NOT GUILTY verdict.
Cheers

[bulldogproud2]

bp2 - let's agree to disagree because there is no common ground so no use arguing.

One thing for sure, your views and statements about Abbott and Pyne only reinforce my views on the Jesuit Order.
I hope that the next time you talk with Pyne, you remind him of what he has said publically and what he has told you privately.

Jimmy, you will find that most politicians hold somewhat different private views to what they state publicly. For instance, Tony Abbott is firmly in favour of an Emissions Trading Scheme privately (and used to be publicly) but has given up stating that publicly.
Don't just hold it against Jesuit politicians (Pyne, Hockey, Abbott, Joyce, Shorten), it is all politicians.

Will happily agree to disagree and I am really glad you supported your points so well. I have total respect for you, even if I may be at the other end of the political dimension. I just don't like it when people say 'pfft' to something without providing a counter-argument. You, my friend, made very good counter-arguments.

Cheers

[Q.]

Eighthly, despite going on for years and years re the need for a surplus, announcing that they will not be aiming for a surplus at all in their term. You Labor people said Abbott would slash and burn as soon as he got to power. Now you're pissed because he's not doing it. That is laughable. Changing a deficit that size will take time and at least they're going to aim for it unlike your economic vandal mates

Those economic vandals just delivered Australia's most 'contractionary year for fiscal policy ever seen', which has 'Hockey inheriting some of the best budget and government debt circumstances in the world.'

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2013/9/30/economy/no-urgency-budget-emergency

[bulldogproud2]

Btw, it is really weird working with the Jesuits in as much as we preach social justice issues but then for some reason we have more students join the Liberal Party than the Labor Party
However, we do produce more leading politicians and lawyers than any other college system, which is a mark of the quality of the education and concern about public issues.

Cheers

[bulldogproud2]

Eighthly, despite going on for years and years re the need for a surplus, announcing that they will not be aiming for a surplus at all in their term. You Labor people said Abbott would slash and burn as soon as he got to power. Now you're pissed because he's not doing it. That is laughable. Changing a deficit that size will take time and at least they're going to aim for it unlike your economic vandal mates

Those economic vandals just delivered Australia's most 'contractionary year for fiscal policy ever seen', which has 'Hockey inheriting some of the best budget and government debt circumstances in the world.'

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2013/9/30/economy/no-urgency-budget-emergency

Exactly, it has only ever been the Labor government who has delivered cuts in real government spending, a point well made in that article, Q. This coming year will be no different. The amount of spending that Abbott announced was the highest in many, many a campaign. Added to that, less revenue through the Carbon Tax and Mining RENT tax will see 2013/14 have a much larger budget deficit than 2012/13.
His parental leave scheme which is not only unjust (creating a class system from birth by valuing the baby of a high income couple much more highly than one from a lower income family) is far too expensive as well.

Cheers

[Q.]

I think the real point, that was glossed over in the article, is that Labor's cuts in an effort to return the budget to surplus actually had a negative effect on GDP growth. If the Libs are to learn from this then they would be wise to avoid too much slashing.

[Jimmy_041]

Btw, it is really weird working with the Jesuits in as much as we preach social justice issues but then for some reason we have more students join the Liberal Party than the Labor Party
However, we do produce more leading politicians and lawyers than any other college system, which is a mark of the quality of the education and concern about public issues.

Cheers

The Jesuits are the most "conservative" of all Catholics to the point, they have been called the Army of Jesus instead of the Society of Jesus.
You are correct that they dominate our judiciary and legal system.
But, there are parts of their history and some traits that they shouldn't be proud of, and the ends justify the means is one of them.
Anyway, back on thread.
Bernardi asked "what's next?" It was the press and hysterical minority that linked the two. He never said one leads to the other. He merely asked where do we stop?

[bulldogproud2]

I think the real point, that was glossed over in the article, is that Labor's cuts in an effort to return the budget to surplus actually had a negative effect on GDP growth. If the Libs are to learn from this then they would be wise to avoid too much slashing.

Agreed. although I would love to see the reaction of some to the following paragraph:

In terms of the tax take, the final budget outcome for 2012-13 showed that it rose by 0.6 per cent of GDP to 21.6 per cent on the back of a slight upturn in economic growth through the year. This is a staggering 2.6 per cent of GDP, or $40 billion per year, below the peak level in 2004-05 and 2005-06 and some 1.8 per cent of GDP ($27 billion in 2012-13 dollar terms) below the average tax take of the Howard government, which looks like holding onto the record for the highest taxing government in Australia’s history for a while longer.

I am pretty sure that very few conservative people understand how much higher taxing the Howard government was than any other government in history.

Cheers