Relegation in the HFL

[Afterthesiren]

Believe a certain president is contacting all the clubs to get an indication of how they would vote. And it's not a club pesident. This is becoming farcical. The fact IB have got their act together has stuffed up their startaegy. The HFL thought the bankers where odds on to go but now not the case. Good on ya banker boys.

I think the HFL would have been happy if Ironbank or Bridgewater got relegated. The fact that it's likely to be Lobethal or Birdwood would be annoying them.

Like you, I'm happy to see that Bridgewater and Ironbank appear safe. I hate to see the situation prevail where the quality of your changerooms become the the major factor in deciding if you're worthy of playing in Central Division.

I think you would find both Ironbank and Bridgewater would go to Country Division without argument if they were to be faced with relegation. I'm sure both clubs wouldn't be happy about it but they are the rules and it is for the better of the Hills Football League.

[supercoach]

Good points ATS, Gerv and HB. If Lobey stopped and looked for a minute they would realise that going back to country and winning a few games would do wonders for the club. IB did it and it did them the world of good 10 yrs ago. They (IB) now have a sound base that came from their juniors and is now complimented by quality low cost recruits who play for the right reason and want to be there. Bridgy appear to being down that path as birdwood have as well. Lobey have been crap for 3 years and show no improvement. Their juniors are feral and the future in central is bleak. There is no way they could have money or sponsors who would invest in the current situation. So we have eleven teams next yaer and they still get their ass kicked. What good is that doing the comp or the club. Talk with past players and as they say it is getting embarrassing for the club..............as they say it is time to leave the house !!!!!!!!! About time the HFL showed some leadership on this issue.

[Bat Pad]

Good points ATS, Gerv and HB. If Lobey stopped and looked for a minute they would realise that going back to country and winning a few games would do wonders for the club. IB did it and it did them the world of good 10 yrs ago. They (IB) now have a sound base that came from their juniors and is now complimented by quality low cost recruits who play for the right reason and want to be there. Bridgy appear to being down that path as birdwood have as well. Lobey have been crap for 3 years and show no improvement. Their juniors are feral and the future in central is bleak. There is no way they could have money or sponsors who would invest in the current situation. So we have eleven teams next yaer and they still get their ass kicked. What good is that doing the comp or the club. Talk with past players and as they say it is getting embarrassing for the club..............as they say it is time to leave the house !!!!!!!!! About time the HFL showed some leadership on this issue.

Hmmmm

[FlyingHigh]

Surely if it was a yearly thing it would go purely on the A Grade like Amatuer League (If I am correct on that, have been wrong once already today).

A-Grade grand finalists get promoted.

I'm inclined to think that for promotion/relegation in HFL and SFL it would only be the Premier that gets promoted.

Good points ATS, Gerv and HB. If Lobey stopped and looked for a minute they would realise that going back to country and winning a few games would do wonders for the club. IB did it and it did them the world of good 10 yrs ago. They (IB) now have a sound base that came from their juniors and is now complimented by quality low cost recruits who play for the right reason and want to be there. Bridgy appear to being down that path as birdwood have as well. Lobey have been crap for 3 years and show no improvement. Their juniors are feral and the future in central is bleak. There is no way they could have money or sponsors who would invest in the current situation. So we have eleven teams next yaer and they still get their ass kicked. What good is that doing the comp or the club. Talk with past players and as they say it is getting embarrassing for the club..............as they say it is time to leave the house !!!!!!!!! About time the HFL showed some leadership on this issue.

Would we really want to see a side get promoted and relegated in the HFL every year just because a team wins a wooden spoon or flag?
I wouldn't have thought so.
For the smaller Hills towns, winning a Country Div flag is their peak. There needs to be some motivation from the entire club, not just the A-grade winning a flag. I would guess Kersbrook would be pretty happy being in Country Div and accept this is their lot on life, especially after their Div 1 efforts in the early 90's.
Also, how about Kersbrook who haven't had full junior teams over the last couple of years?
Would a team coming from the Elimination Final to win the flag get promoted?
How about a team that has finished minor premiers three years in a row, but not win a flag?
Sometimes when a team wins one flag with a group of players after being aroung the mark for a while, that is their peak as a group - eg Port in the AFL in 2004, Eagles in SANFL in 2006.

[has been]

Every one seems to be forgetting one very sad but real fact - lobey have been absolute crap for 3 years now and show no sign of improvement. If they where a business they would be dead, finished - liquidated. we are not talking 1 year. As SC said they have 11 teams next year they would still be bottom and what has been achieved - nothing !!!! Hopefully they don't win another game in any grade for the rest of the year and they get put where they should be.

[FlyingHigh]

Every one seems to be forgetting one very sad but real fact - lobey have been absolute crap for 3 years now and show no sign of improvement. If they where a business they would be dead, finished - liquidated. we are not talking 1 year. As SC said they have 11 teams next year they would still be bottom and what has been achieved - nothing !!!! Hopefully they don't win another game in any grade for the rest of the year and they get put where they should be.

Agree has been. THere needs to be some sort of objective measures as a club over a number of years, rather than just on one year.
For example, a team that has finished bottom in Central 2 years in a row could be faced with relegation if they finish bottom for a third year or don't win a certain number of games to show improvement. This then gives a Country team the opportunity to plan for promotion for 18 months in case there is a team facing relegation, but they wouldn't be guaranteed of promotion.

[Joe Blow]

I have heard lobethal will stack their b grade with a graders if they have to to escape relegation. They are desperate to stay in central. I wonder if birdwood will try the same?

[Amateur Footy]

There will be a vote in July on change to constitution to allow 11 teams in Central which Lobethal and Birdwood are pushing. Plenty of phone calls between Presidents before that time.

Unfortunately there is now some confusion at the top as to whether or not the u13 comp should be included in the points for promotion/relegation. This may also be on the agenda. Hopefully u13 is included as this will help Birdwod out.

There are also thoughts of Lobethal moving to Barossa League instead of going to Country.

[Trooper]

I have heard lobethal will stack their b grade with a graders if they have to to escape relegation. They are desperate to stay in central. I wonder if birdwood will try the same?

Everyone really seems to have it in for Lobey.

As much as 10 team comps would be great there is definately a perseption from players of all ages, supporters, and parents that the country div is not the sort of place to be. With out the backing of GH at TV there is no way they would've been able to recruit to the standard they have. So any club going back to country won't be able to recruit to a suitable level to get back into central div let alone be able to hang onto all the recruits they've already got without the big dollars. Unfortunately the HFL have an image issue with that competition which is why the bottom clubs are trying to hang on to anything to stay in the top competition.

Still wouldn't believe any side would stack their B Grade to avoid relegation. As much as clubs have had their actions questioned in the past i don't believe they've intentionally acted in bad faith, least of all Lobethal. Yet if TV didn't want to come up their would be no issue with how the clubs are being run. A few of the more successful clubs at the moment are lucky it wasn't involved in the same process in the past, but thats why we love this game - for the swings and round abouts.

[Afterthesiren]

I have heard lobethal will stack their b grade with a graders if they have to to escape relegation. They are desperate to stay in central. I wonder if birdwood will try the same?

Everyone really seems to have it in for Lobey.

As much as 10 team comps would be great there is definately a perseption from players of all ages, supporters, and parents that the country div is not the sort of place to be. With out the backing of GH at TV there is no way they would've been able to recruit to the standard they have. So any club going back to country won't be able to recruit to a suitable level to get back into central div let alone be able to hang onto all the recruits they've already got without the big dollars. Unfortunately the HFL have an image issue with that competition which is why the bottom clubs are trying to hang on to anything to stay in the top competition.

Still wouldn't believe any side would stack their B Grade to avoid relegation. As much as clubs have had their actions questioned in the past i don't believe they've intentionally acted in bad faith, least of all Lobethal. Yet if TV didn't want to come up their would be no issue with how the clubs are being run. A few of the more successful clubs at the moment are lucky it wasn't involved in the same process in the past, but thats why we love this game - for the swings and round abouts.

Gee I wonder why everyone has it in for Lobethal. Surely reality has to set in at some stage down there at Tiger Land. Why should everyone bend over backwards for a club that hasn't been competitive for 3 years. Cmon Lobethal... get your head out of the sand and accept Country Div is the only option. Instead you as a club expect everyone to bow to your requests at the detriment of a very strong 10 team competition... stop being so selfish.

And these threats of leaving the HFL to play in the Barossa (if true) are nothing short of pathetic. A move like this would only cause further players to leave the club possibly causing Lobethal to fold. Time to think with your heads and not your heart. This 'relegation' was a long time coming so there has been plently of time to prepare and even turn things around (Ironbank have proved this), yet Lobethal have failed to improve in most areas. Country Div isn't permanent... several clubs have gone back to Country and come back to Central with great success.

[Amateur Footy]

To be clear, I haven't heard Lobethal claim they will move to Barossa League, but there are concerns in HFL that they might. They may be unfounded and I hope it doesn't effect the way any clubs vote.

[the big fella]

Lobe to the barossa league???

Good nite Lobe..GH , Birdwood, Gums etc would be very happy if Lobe went to barossa..they would pick off their players..


Same thing happened to Nairne when they went to River Murray..Mounts and other clubs picked off all their juniors..

[Afterthesiren]

To be clear, I haven't heard Lobethal claim they will move to Barossa League, but there are concerns in HFL that they might. They may be unfounded and I hope it doesn't effect the way any clubs vote.

If there's any weight to it AF I'm sure all the other clubs would be smart enough to treat it as nothing more than a threat. The HFL is much bigger than one club, its just a shame the HFL hasn't stamped their authority on this relegation issue.

[Draft Pick 72]

To be clear, I haven't heard Lobethal claim they will move to Barossa League, but there are concerns in HFL that they might. They may be unfounded and I hope it doesn't effect the way any clubs vote.

If there's any weight to it AF I'm sure all the other clubs would be smart enough to treat it as nothing more than a threat. The HFL is much bigger than one club, its just a shame the HFL hasn't stamped their authority on this relegation issue.

Lobethal will not join the BL&G as they are not in the BL&G region, pretty simple! The league directors will not let it happen.

[Look Good In Leather]

What a ridiculous concept... an 11 team competition just won't work. The HFL are crazy to even entertain the thought. If it's your turn to go to Country Division accept it and go there, rebuild and come back.

Learn from the mistakes of the SFL...

In 1993, Mitchell Park applied to join the SFL but in Division 1, precedent had been set in 1987 when Plympton, Marion & Morphettville Park joined Div1 directly instead of joining via Div 2, which had been the previous process for Flagstaff Hill, Happy Valley etc.

The SFL currently had a strong 10 team Div1 (and I believe 8 team Div2), the decision was made to accept Mitchell Park into a 11 team division 1 as the bottom placed team (Flagstaff Hill I believe) did not want to go down, creating a Bye.

This lasted for three seasons until Brighton Districts & Old Scholars joined in 1997 taking the division to 12 teams.

1997 Mitchell Park finished bottom & O'Sullivan Beach were promoted.

In the meantime, Div2 was dominated by Kangarilla & McLaren Vale, with neither wanting to move up, Mitchell Park & Meadows left the competition, McLaren Vale & McLaren Flat merged and suddenly 2000 was heading towards a 12 team Div 1 and 5 team Div2. The decision was made to drop the bottom 2 teams down for the 2000 season, O'Sullivan Beach & Flagstaff Hill ended up making the drop.

In 2000, the newly merged McLaren side went into the GF undefeated and lost by a point to Kangarilla. McLaren desperately wanted promotion. Kangarilla did not want to go up, the rules said only the premier team was eligable. McLaren applied to join the GSFL, were blocked and eventually left in the 2002 season. Again faced with a 6 team div 2, the SFL decided to combine the two divisions to make a single 16 team division. Lonsdale & O'Sullivan Beach decided to merge to take that to 15, 2 seasons later Kangarilla left and the rest is history.

The main reasons for the problems..

1) Non compulsory promotion/relegation - 2up, 2down tends to result in a better balance of teams.
which resulted in
2) Big fish in little pond syndrome - clubs happy to just dominate in a lesser division

[woody]

One issue that doesn't get alot of mention on here is the lack of a good junior comp in country div.
Some clubs do not have teams at all levels. This makes for unattractive mornings for a lot of parents. Having observed and coached junior footy at both Central and Country levels for quite a few years. I have found that Central is far cleaner and skillfull comp with much less emphasis on the Biff than Country. I feel for any juniors and their parents forced to play in a lesser comp.

[Afterthesiren]

One issue that doesn't get alot of mention on here is the lack of a good junior comp in country div.
Some clubs do not have teams at all levels. This makes for unattractive mornings for a lot of parents. Having observed and coached junior footy at both Central and Country levels for quite a few years. I have found that Central is far cleaner and skillfull comp with much less emphasis on the Biff than Country. I feel for any juniors and their parents forced to play in a lesser comp.

Surely an argument for staying in Central Division isn't going to hinge on the junior competition. I have also coached junior football in both divisions and can say there is not that much difference in skill level. Its not until you look at the top sides in U/17s that you notice the difference and by this time the boys are getting ready or are already playing A/B grade footy. You need to come up with something better than this.

[sound4]

One issue that doesn't get alot of mention on here is the lack of a good junior comp in country div.
Some clubs do not have teams at all levels. This makes for unattractive mornings for a lot of parents. Having observed and coached junior footy at both Central and Country levels for quite a few years. I have found that Central is far cleaner and skillfull comp with much less emphasis on the Biff than Country. I feel for any juniors and their parents forced to play in a lesser comp.

Surely an argument for staying in Central Division isn't going to hinge on the junior competition. I have also coached junior football in both divisions and can say there is not that much difference in skill level. Its not until you look at the top sides in U/17s that you notice the difference and by this time the boys are getting ready or are already playing A/B grade footy. You need to come up with something better than this.

My understanding is that is exactly why Birdwood went up to Central in the first place, to develop and challenge their kids further, keep them interested in football and hopefully retain more of them in the A Grade and B Grade once they finished in juniors. From what I have seen, there is certainly a different in standard between the two plus every club in Central has a team. While I agree that the juniors cannot be the only reason to stay in Central, I think it is a still nonetheless a reason to try and stay.

[Afterthesiren]

I'm curious... can you change a bi-law half way through a season? Does the constitution allow this? If so, why bother having rules and regs at all if they can be changed at the drop of a hat.
Also an 11 team comp in Central and a 9 team comp in Country... ummm... ponder to think... this would mean if anything was to be voted on in any capacity that the Central Div Clubs hold all the cards. Interesting... SFL (Southern Football League) deja vu. Lets not go down that road hey!

[rock]

Certainly agree with you there ATS after watching the SFL's Div 2 implode after some very poor decisions. Our competition hasn't been the same since. Surely Country Div clubs would want a club to replace Torrens Valley. As much as they'll enjoy seeing the back of TV I think they'll still want and need to maintain a healthy standard of competition rather than weaken it.