APPS Country Football

Talk on any country footy league or club from the SA Country area

Re: APPS Country Football

Postby daysofourlives » Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:33 pm

The problem the amateur league clubs face is that they pay everyone in their A Grade 21 meaning less money to spend on big signings. That is their main problem and the reason they cant compete with country clubs who may in general only have 6-8 players on the pay role.
Fix that problem instead of sooking bout country clubs taking your players.
You dont see the country clubs sooking when a young lad goes off to Uni or the city for employment and joins an amateur league club.
Who's our BITCH
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Re: APPS Country Football

Postby grasshopper22 » Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:09 pm

RooShootOhh wrote:Player payments are a vicious circle... but at the end of the there are mutiple factors to blame:

1. Clubs are willing to pay big $$$$
2. Players happily put their hand out of excessive payments
3. The APPS

1 - The harsh reality is, while clubs are prepared to pay these $ amounts, there will always be a demand, and while I understand the ramifications around clubs not competing in the 'Meat market', the fact still remains, if every club made a stand, this wouldn't be an issue. Why is it still an issue, because clubs don't care about anyone but themselves, and sometime they are killing themselves anyway in their pursuit of success. So all this talk about side deals etc wouldnt be a problem if EVERY club made a stand on principle and stuck to the payment limits. Will this happen, no, and the second ONE club goes outside the boundries, the rest will follow in a heart beat.

Fact still remains, if clubs didnt pay it, problem wouldn't exist!

2 - Now whilst I like the idea of loyalty to your club etc, the generation of today do see things like when I was a kid, so I don't really care if they want to keep swapping clubs to play with mates, moved towns etc etc. Where things have got out of hand is the comfort levels of blokes asking for money. Blokes staying at clubs for a year or two until a better offer comes along etc. Now while money is important to all of us, when blokes are weighing up one club over another for something like $50 difference per game, your kidding yourself young fella. What gets worse now, is blokes going back and forth between clubs they offered me $500 if you give me $550 I'll play for you etc. And asking for sign on fees, your a country footballer, you dont deserve sign on fees, if you were as good as you think you are you wouldn't be playing country footy! But it also haapens at the bottom end, kids 18,19,20 asking for $50 a game ply petrol money.... How about you just get a kick and become a regular A grade player mate, then if the club wishes to reward you then so be it, but at the minute, you should be thanking the club for letting you play there and the opportunity to play A grade footy, not putting your hand out. But again, if you go back to point 1, if clubs are happy to throw it around, would you say no if they offered it to you?

3 - The Point system was put in place to limit player movement, mainly driven by the ametuers worried about blokes goin to the country. In a system that is so slawed as this one and one the ammo's dont actually buy into, all it his done is make their plight worse. Most country clubs had an import rule of some description, relevant to their league and surroundings, that possibly wasn't perfect but workied more often than it didnt. The new points system has dramatically chaged rectruiting 3 ways:
a) placing the basic 'points' system creates a value on every player, unfortunately that value is way to uneven. for example, someone at Sturt last year may have played 7 league games, 9 reserves games for the year, effectively making him a 3 point player. Then a young kid, 18 plays back pocket for Sedan-Cambrai last year, pretty average kid but due to depth issues, plays 9 A grade games and 7 B grade games, he is also a 3 point player. What the system is telling you, that a bloke who played nearly half a season at SANFL league level is the same value to a team as a average kid whos realistically a B grader in Hills Country division.
b) While the ammo's continue to offer EVERY team 15 points every year no matter what, the APPS is not a one fits all system, and therefor forces country clubs to look for players. Perfect example, Goody Saints, Div 1 champions for 3 or 4 years, every single year they had 15 points to play with, whilst every 'points' player is reduced by 1 each year, meaning the system actively encourages them to continue to recruit (and you don't hear Ammo clubs whinging about that), yet Tanunda 4 flags on the trot and the points system allows them 3 points in the BLG, so providing all their current players are 0 pointer they can recruit 1 bloke, but if they have points players from the previous year, no room for recruiting there. So when country clubs aer limited to the volume of players they cn recruit, they have to make an extra effort to draw said player to their club rather than lose it to someone else, hence good clubs only target the best players available, which brings me to point 3
c) even if every club has the same $ Budget to work with, the points system actively drives up the prices of players without the player actually having to do anything. Lets say an ammo club has $50k to spend as does a country club. Ammo club has 15 points (5x3 point players) so they have on average $10k to spend on each player, then the country club only has 6 points to play with (2x3 point players), yet still has the $50k budget, effectively having an allowance of $25k per player to spend. So while that is really simplified, the APPS system actively allows/encourages the country club to spend more to maximise the value of their 3 point player.

So while i could elaborate further on each point, and I'm happy to if anyone wants to on a certain point, the reality is, evan as little as say 7 years ago, player payments would have only been around half of what they are now, what has changed, the APPS came in, created an uneven meat market, drove player prices up, now it is what it is.


But with a well managed points system at executive level in that league, the only way it's viable is, if the stronger teams keep getting less and lesser points, after 4 or 5 yrs with the points system in our league we are starting to see the affects and the evening up of the comp. also the points system has stopped teams recruiting 10+ a yr to buy a premiership, agreed value has gone up on the good players but that's because clubs are being smart and trying to get the best player they can for those points. The system just needs tinkering with but I don't think these drastic changes of some sort of $$ cap will work and I don't personally agree with it.
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Re: APPS Country Football

Postby Jimmy_041 » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:49 am

RooShootOhh wrote:Player payments are a vicious circle... but at the end of the there are mutiple factors to blame:

1. Clubs are willing to pay big $$$$
2. Players happily put their hand out of excessive payments
3. The APPS

1 - The harsh reality is, while clubs are prepared to pay these $ amounts, there will always be a demand, and while I understand the ramifications around clubs not competing in the 'Meat market', the fact still remains, if every club made a stand, this wouldn't be an issue. Why is it still an issue, because clubs don't care about anyone but themselves, and sometime they are killing themselves anyway in their pursuit of success. So all this talk about side deals etc wouldnt be a problem if EVERY club made a stand on principle and stuck to the payment limits. Will this happen, no, and the second ONE club goes outside the boundries, the rest will follow in a heart beat.

Fact still remains, if clubs didnt pay it, problem wouldn't exist!

2 - Now whilst I like the idea of loyalty to your club etc, the generation of today do see things like when I was a kid, so I don't really care if they want to keep swapping clubs to play with mates, moved towns etc etc. Where things have got out of hand is the comfort levels of blokes asking for money. Blokes staying at clubs for a year or two until a better offer comes along etc. Now while money is important to all of us, when blokes are weighing up one club over another for something like $50 difference per game, your kidding yourself young fella. What gets worse now, is blokes going back and forth between clubs they offered me $500 if you give me $550 I'll play for you etc. And asking for sign on fees, your a country footballer, you dont deserve sign on fees, if you were as good as you think you are you wouldn't be playing country footy! But it also haapens at the bottom end, kids 18,19,20 asking for $50 a game ply petrol money.... How about you just get a kick and become a regular A grade player mate, then if the club wishes to reward you then so be it, but at the minute, you should be thanking the club for letting you play there and the opportunity to play A grade footy, not putting your hand out. But again, if you go back to point 1, if clubs are happy to throw it around, would you say no if they offered it to you?

3 - The Point system was put in place to limit player movement, mainly driven by the ametuers worried about blokes goin to the country. In a system that is so slawed as this one and one the ammo's dont actually buy into, all it his done is make their plight worse. Most country clubs had an import rule of some description, relevant to their league and surroundings, that possibly wasn't perfect but workied more often than it didnt. The new points system has dramatically chaged rectruiting 3 ways:
a) placing the basic 'points' system creates a value on every player, unfortunately that value is way to uneven. for example, someone at Sturt last year may have played 7 league games, 9 reserves games for the year, effectively making him a 3 point player. Then a young kid, 18 plays back pocket for Sedan-Cambrai last year, pretty average kid but due to depth issues, plays 9 A grade games and 7 B grade games, he is also a 3 point player. What the system is telling you, that a bloke who played nearly half a season at SANFL league level is the same value to a team as a average kid whos realistically a B grader in Hills Country division.
b) While the ammo's continue to offer EVERY team 15 points every year no matter what, the APPS is not a one fits all system, and therefor forces country clubs to look for players. Perfect example, Goody Saints, Div 1 champions for 3 or 4 years, every single year they had 15 points to play with, whilst every 'points' player is reduced by 1 each year, meaning the system actively encourages them to continue to recruit (and you don't hear Ammo clubs whinging about that), yet Tanunda 4 flags on the trot and the points system allows them 3 points in the BLG, so providing all their current players are 0 pointer they can recruit 1 bloke, but if they have points players from the previous year, no room for recruiting there. So when country clubs aer limited to the volume of players they cn recruit, they have to make an extra effort to draw said player to their club rather than lose it to someone else, hence good clubs only target the best players available, which brings me to point 3
c) even if every club has the same $ Budget to work with, the points system actively drives up the prices of players without the player actually having to do anything. Lets say an ammo club has $50k to spend as does a country club. Ammo club has 15 points (5x3 point players) so they have on average $10k to spend on each player, then the country club only has 6 points to play with (2x3 point players), yet still has the $50k budget, effectively having an allowance of $25k per player to spend. So while that is really simplified, the APPS system actively allows/encourages the country club to spend more to maximise the value of their 3 point player.

So while i could elaborate further on each point, and I'm happy to if anyone wants to on a certain point, the reality is, evan as little as say 7 years ago, player payments would have only been around half of what they are now, what has changed, the APPS came in, created an uneven meat market, drove player prices up, now it is what it is.


I find this terribly amusing as the SAAFL was one of, if not, the last leagues to join the APPS and only after the CFL, and representatives of the BL&G and SFL, told them in 2009, that their players would be declared zero points if they did not join in. The surrounding leagues were salivating at the prospect including the GSFL which prematurely announced that the SAAFL were zero points regardless.

As to all clubs of the SAAFL having 15 points, the SAAFL is the only league to have a proper "promotion and relegation" system. This is always seems to be conveniently avoided by those that keep crapping on about it. Very few SAAFL clubs use 15 points every Saturday - maybe 3 - 4. How do you explain two recent D1 premiership clubs; GAZA (2011) and SPOC (2012) being on the bottom of the table this year? SHOC being in D2 after playing in the D1 GF in 2010 & 2011?

But, hey, don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

BTW, I agree with James Moore's comments in his letter
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Re: APPS Country Football

Postby Dogs Breakfast » Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:15 pm

The implementation of the points system will kill off a lot of smaller country clubs in SA. It has been implemented by the CFL with little or no thought of how smaller towns can attract players for survival. More money is leaving all clubs now with less and poorer quality players being introduced to the clubs. The days of recruiting a good player who has a few mates to tag along and have a game with is gone as these blokes cant fit in with the points. Its crap.
The CFL is very similar to the AFL Rules committee.....they think they have to come up with these new brainwave to justify their existence. In both cases they are cocking up our game..!
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Re: APPS Country Football

Postby Look Good In Leather » Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:45 pm

The CFL has approached the ATO for a ruling on the tax requirements of player payments.

"The subcommittee felt it was critical for all Affiliated Leagues and Clubs to be aware of the risks associated with noncompliance of ATO requirements in relation to player payments."
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Re: APPS Country Football

Postby heater31 » Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:47 pm

Look Good In Leather wrote:The CFL has approached the ATO for a ruling on the tax requirements of player payments.

"The subcommittee felt it was critical for all Affiliated Leagues and Clubs to be aware of the risks associated with noncompliance of ATO requirements in relation to player payments."



Finally this may cause some of these ridiculously high payments to be brought under control :)
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Re: APPS Country Football

Postby WellPlayed#9 » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:00 pm

Has a draft of the proposed changes been released for consultation or is this all speculation?
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