Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Talk on any country footy league or club from the SA Country area

Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Bag & Sledge » Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:14 pm

I believe the Points System is crucifying country footy with the way association's distribute their player points and now it looks like a Salary Cap will be introduced for country footy next season which will make things even worse.
I know a country competition where attendances are the worst they have ever been in the last few years.
How can a successful team that gets the whole club in order (a club that's worked their backside off from a committee level to a playing & coaching group to give themselves every opportunity of winning a premiership) receive a penalty not of being able to recruit any further players for the next couple of years?
Are there any other sports that crucify a club for being successful or is it just SA Country Football??
The onus needs to be on the clubs at the bottom of the ladder to get their clubs in order, not rely on the associations to bring the successful clubs down to their level (by reducing their points from winning games) which brings the standard of the competition down to a level of ordinary footy!!

Lets use Victoria for a comparison, do they have the same issue?
No in fact their competitions are as strong as they have ever been and attendances are very healthy.
They try and recruit better players to get more bums on seats!!! It makes total sense!!
SALARY CAP:
In my opinion country footy is suffering (in SA) so why does Country Footy have to continue to suffer by introducing a Salary Cap.
Take a team that has a small community for example with a small population of juniors.
The club survives at A Grade level by spending money to attract players and remember they can only recruit so many due to the Points System.
What will introducing a Salary Cap do to those small communities that rely on Football in their small towns?
Not being able to recruit quality players will bring the standard of the competition down and what happens then? Smaller Attendances!
Who will want to go and watch the games?
Would you pay $7 to go and watch average players run around on a Saturday if you were not directly involved at a club? \
I'm certain that the local average Joe down the street would not be tempted to go and watch his local town's team play.
But if they are able to attract better recruits then of course-
-It means more attendance
-Which means more money spent at the club and town
-A higher participation level from kids because whether you believe it or not, some kids look up to a quality A Grade player, so they will want to play just like them.

POINTS SYSTEM:
SANFL Clubs are not happy with the amount of money being spent in Country Footy well money has always been a lure to recruit players but the amount spent these days I think is due to the Points System that was introduced.
Were there any problems or issues before the Points System was introduced??? No.
I have also heard SANFL clubs are not happy with the grass roots club trying to poach their former juniors back to their club.
For example a strong country club sends a kid to play SANFL underage footy then by the time he is in his mid 20's and playing reserves footy the grass roots club asks him to return - well why wouldn't they with the way this points system is setup??
Example-
The strong country club is severely penalised by the Association's Points System for being successful (Winning Games).
With games won over the past two years they are able to recruit 3 players (9 points) they win a premiership, then lose 4 players the following year for various reasons, but they hold their recruits and they've gone from 3 points to 2 points and the club has been penalised for winning so many games so they go down to 6 points and are unable to recruit any players.
How is it fair that a club works its back side off from the off field stuff to on field from committee to playing & coaching group and they then get told well you guys won too many games last year so we are docking your points for the next couple of seasons? DISGRACE!!

SANFL:
If SANFL clubs remember, they introduced two new clubs in Adelaide and Port Adelaide in the same season so of course that will weaken the competition when some clubs are already struggling for numbers of quality as it is.
Players being poached from SANFL clubs has happened since football has been a sport so that will never change and introducing a points system and now salary cap wont change a thing at SANFL level.
Last edited by Bag & Sledge on Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Dogs Breakfast » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:07 pm

This is the best post I have seen in ages! Bag and Sledge I could not have written it better! They are killing country footy and if you try and speak to anybody at Community footy they don't give a rats ar$e!
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Mr Beefy » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:10 pm

Bag & Sledge wrote:Lets use Victoria for a comparison, do they have the same issue?
No in fact their competitions are as strong as they have ever been and attendances are very healthy.

Unsustainable player payments, clubs folding or merging, competition and league structures under review, clubs changing leagues, yeah everything is rosy over there. Points system being introduced next year.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby daysofourlives » Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:04 pm

You neglected to give the SAAFL a mention in your post B&S.
IMO alot of this has been driven by them, clubs in the amateur league are just that.
They dont in alot of cases have the financial backing a country club/town does. They make alot of noise about country clubs recruiting their stars for more coin. Then they whinged about country clubs recruiting their "B" graders as they were no points and had the rules around that changed. What they fail to acknowledge is all the young lads they pick up from the country who move to town for study/work for no points.
There will never be a two way street in all this while the power base is city orientated.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Bag & Sledge » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:02 pm

Mr Beefy wrote:
Bag & Sledge wrote:Lets use Victoria for a comparison, do they have the same issue?
No in fact their competitions are as strong as they have ever been and attendances are very healthy.

Unsustainable player payments, clubs folding or merging, competition and league structures under review, clubs changing leagues, yeah everything is rosy over there. Points system being introduced next year.


Mr Beefy go and check out a game in country Victoria one week, you'll be surprised with how they have built such a strong product for the people over there.
If the SANFL believe players are on too much money in country footy, they may have to start paying players more money if demands of a 3-4 night a week training sessions continue, if a player plays reserves all year correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure it works out to be about 50c an hour - that's what stinks.
Maybe the community football board also need to start adopting an Country Football association ranking (Like Victoria) to replace this Zone Footy debacle too.
At least it gives players and associations reason to play to attempt to become the number one country football association in the state.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby CouchExpert » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:29 pm

Interesting view but I don't agree entirely.The points system would work well if it was properly implemented.Points are like cash & the more you have the more you get to spend.Reduce the overall number of points available & I'm sure player payments would come down.In my league the KNTFL the two biggest spending clubs last year (Padthaway & Kaniva Leeor) had the most points(16 each I think ). The interesting thing is that Padthaway get 16 points again this year & yet they won a flag in 2014.so go figure!! In fact it is rumoured the Padthway's entire spend last year was over $200,000,add to that the $2000 per goal one of their forwards was offered per goal in the grand final (He kicked 9) & you can see it has got out of hand.
Part of the problem is that as soon as some of our clubs are threatened with loosing points they start hinting that this would force them to fold & so the league executive caves in to them & all but gives them as many points as they like.
I think the only real solution is a sensible points system in conjunction with a salary cap system where the onus is on the players to abide by the payments available.IE all paid players would sign a standard contract in all leagues that would state their responsibilities , legal obligations & the penalties for breaching the contract (IE de-regristration) .The VCFL are going to implement something along these lines next year.

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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby running defender » Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:37 am

Salary cap won't work , how are you going to stop the wheat farmer or the potato grower from employing a bloke for 2 days and giving him $600 . The cfl should actually get of there butt ,
go and watch a few games and get a feel of what's going on out there.
Apps system only rewards mediocrity why should clubs that win Gf or play finals get penalised?
Give every club the same amount of points or get rid of it.
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby cracka » Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:28 am

running defender wrote:Salary cap won't work , how are you going to stop the wheat farmer or the potato grower from employing a bloke for 2 days and giving him $600 . The cfl should actually get of there butt ,
go and watch a few games and get a feel of what's going on out there.
Apps system only rewards mediocrity why should clubs that win Gf or play finals get penalised?
Give every club the same amount of points or get rid of it.

Salary cap can work if players are made to sign stat decs on what & how they're paid.
What a load of crap APPS rewards mediocrity, it stops clubs buying flags year after year.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Jim05 » Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:57 am

cracka wrote:
running defender wrote:Salary cap won't work , how are you going to stop the wheat farmer or the potato grower from employing a bloke for 2 days and giving him $600 . The cfl should actually get of there butt ,
go and watch a few games and get a feel of what's going on out there.
Apps system only rewards mediocrity why should clubs that win Gf or play finals get penalised?
Give every club the same amount of points or get rid of it.

Salary cap can work if players are made to sign stat decs on what & how they're paid.
What a load of crap APPS rewards mediocrity, it stops clubs buying flags year after year.

Salary cap will never work. Only penalises the honest clubs. There are still plenty of wealthy supporters willing to slip money in players back pockets
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby LaughingKookaburra » Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:12 am

Watched and played country Victorian footy. It's a great standard but you can't justify clubs paying 150k upwards a year on a handful of players a year no matter what context you put it in.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby shoe boy » Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:39 am

Congrats BS best post I have read on this forum.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby qwerty » Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:26 am

cracka wrote:
running defender wrote:Salary cap won't work , how are you going to stop the wheat farmer or the potato grower from employing a bloke for 2 days and giving him $600 . The cfl should actually get of there butt ,
go and watch a few games and get a feel of what's going on out there.
Apps system only rewards mediocrity why should clubs that win Gf or play finals get penalised?
Give every club the same amount of points or get rid of it.

Salary cap can work if players are made to sign stat decs on what & how they're paid.
What a load of crap APPS rewards mediocrity, it stops clubs buying flags year after year.


Makes you wonder then how all these leagues/clubs survived in some cases for over 100 years, thank god for the points system the saviour of local footy :roll:
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Dogwatcher » Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:51 am

Get ready, more changes to come and possibility of a $$$ cap too.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Dogwatcher » Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:52 am

You're my only friend, and you don't even like me.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Mr Beefy » Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:56 am

Dogwatcher wrote:This is happening in Victoria.

http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/sport/ ... 7098770343

Bit of a typo:
“AFL Victoria through this Working Party has examined a range of possible solutions in order to develop a robust and flexible set of guidelines which will seek to halt the escalating cost of player payments and bridge the gap between the ‘haves’ and ‘have nuts’ at community level.”
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Mr Beefy » Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:58 am

Dogwatcher wrote:This is happening in Victoria.

http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/sport/ ... 7098770343

And this (from http://www.bendigoadvertiser.com.au/story/3078162/how-the-afl-victoria-player-points-system-works/):
HOW THE PLAYER POINTS SYSTEM WORKS

6 points – AFL player: minimum of 1 AFL game in the previous three seasons.

5 points – State League tier 1 (VFL, WAFL, SANFL): minimum of 5 senior games in the current or previous 3 seasons.

4 points – TAC Cup: minimum 5 games in current or previous 3 seasons.

State League tier 2 (NEAFL, TASFL): minimum 5 senior games in current or previous 3 seasons.

Premium Community Player (major metropolitan and country leagues): Club senior best and fairest top five or competition best and fairest top 10. Club leading goalkicker (minimum 40 goals in a season) in previous 3 seasons.

3 points – Senior community player: played the same or more senior than reserves games in any of the previous 3 season.

Transferred junior: player recruited from an under-19s or younger competition and does not meet the home club definition.

2 points – Development community player: played more reserves than senior games in the previous season.

1 point – Home player: played 40 or more games at the aligned junior club and up to and including under-17 competition or younger.

Player who has only played at that club.

ADDITIONAL PENALTY PLAYER POINTS

Additional 1 point - If transferring from another community club in the same competition or division or is transferring from a club located in a premier competition to a club in a non premier competition * (maximum one point even if you meet both descriptions).

Additional 1 point - If transferred to more than two clubs in past 36 months.

DEDUCTIONS FOR PLAYER POINTS

Deduct 1 point - For each season of service to the club (minimum 5 senior or reserves games per season), even if not in consecutive years, until the player reaches 1 point. Note: if the player is eligible for underage football at that club, it must be 5 senior games to meet the criteria for a year of service.

Revert to 1 point – Where player is returning to their home club.

Revert to 1 point – Where player has not played in the previous 36 months.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby RooShootOhh » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:36 am

CouchExpert wrote:Interesting view but I don't agree entirely.The points system would work well if it was properly implemented.Points are like cash & the more you have the more you get to spend.Reduce the overall number of points available & I'm sure player payments would come down.


Couchy... Mate It has done exactly the opposite.

If club A have a playing budget of $30k
They have been allocated 9 APPS
Thats 3 players (assuming they are 3 which is the most common)
Thats $10k to spend on each player
If they play 16 games thats $625 per game each (which is pretty common price these days)

If club B have a playing budget of $30k
They have been allocated 6 APPS
Thats 2 players (assuming they are 3 which is the most common)
Thats $15k to spend on each player
If they play 16 games thats $937 per game each (which is still common price these days among the top players)

If club C have a playing budget of $30k
They have been allocated 3 APPS
Thats 1 player (assuming they are 3 which is the most common)
Thats $30k to spend on the player
If they play 16 games thats $1875 per game each (which has been rumoured to be paid at some places already)


You are kidding yourself if you believe Club C are only going to spend $10k for their 1 x 3 point player because thats all the points they have, they will spend WHATEVER neccesary to make sure they accquire who they believe will maximise the only 3 points they have.


All the points system has done so far is drive up the $$$ of points players without them even trying.

It would have only been 5 or 6 years ago, you would have the one flog that everyone new about that used to try and drive his own price up by shopping himself around, but clubs didnt have to fall for it because they weren't limited to who they could and couldnt recruit based on their previous playing history....

Now clubs want the best player so they throw everything at them in the hope they knock out other potential suitors...
Heaven forbid clubs find a gun player who is either 0 points because of injury or should be realistically a four point player but is only a 3 because of one thing or another.... I
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby cracka » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:37 am

qwerty wrote:
cracka wrote:
running defender wrote:Salary cap won't work , how are you going to stop the wheat farmer or the potato grower from employing a bloke for 2 days and giving him $600 . The cfl should actually get of there butt ,
go and watch a few games and get a feel of what's going on out there.
Apps system only rewards mediocrity why should clubs that win Gf or play finals get penalised?
Give every club the same amount of points or get rid of it.

Salary cap can work if players are made to sign stat decs on what & how they're paid.
What a load of crap APPS rewards mediocrity, it stops clubs buying flags year after year.


Makes you wonder then how all these leagues/clubs survived in some cases for over 100 years, thank god for the points system the saviour of local footy :roll:

Oh yeah, I forgot about all the leagues/clubs that have been paying massive amounts of dollars since the 1920's, silly me. :roll:
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby The Bedge » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:47 am

This might seem a very obvious and stupid question.. but cant clubs get together and vote out the Points system and potential salary cap?

I agree that whilst the points was designed to even up the comps, it has had a more negative effect with some very ordinary footballers being able to chase some decent dollars, and a massive decline in club loyalty - players rarely stick around the same club for an extended period these days.
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby biffboy » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:58 am

The other thing the points system is doing is pushing up the $$ good & sometimes even average players want from the club they have spent their whole life at as they know being a 0 pointer they are worth more with this setup. We have seen plenty of clubs in our comp have to pay locals up to $1000 a game as they are irreplaceable & they know it.
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