Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Talk on any country footy league or club from the SA Country area

Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Swamp Donkey » Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:12 pm

I think the lack of $$$ paid to reserves and fringe league players should not be considered a MAJOR issue in this debate.

The relative player payments for country players and reserves/fringe league players has not changed a lot in 20 years in my opinion. There has always been money to be earned in the country and payment has always been stuff all for reserves/fringe league players in the SANFL. What has changed is the attitude of modern players. 15 years ago it was a privilege to play even SANFL reserves and an honor to be playing league footy (still is in my opinion). Nowadays it seems players have the attitude that is all about them - everyone owes the players something - players just want wind blown up their arse and expect $$$ for everything they do. It seems that there are less and less players willing to sacrifice everything (including taking less $$$ for a few years) to try and crack it SANFL level - rather they tend to have a crack and as soon as it gets tough they take off for $$$.

"Having a crack" at SANFL level often requires more than just 1-2 years of sacrifice before giving into the greed factor. Yes we all could use more money, but using the $$$ as an excuse for throwing in the towel and never fulfilling potential at higher levels is an absolute cop-out in my opinion..
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby oyster » Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:17 pm

Dogwatcher wrote:Yes, but to a watered down version.
The SACFL was never going to back down on this, so it's pretty much a victory for that league.



Do all the other leagues around the state get the same watered down version of the salary cap/points system, as the one your talking about?
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Dogwatcher » Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:21 pm

oyster wrote:
Dogwatcher wrote:Yes, but to a watered down version.
The SACFL was never going to back down on this, so it's pretty much a victory for that league.



Do all the other leagues around the state get the same watered down version of the salary cap/points system, as the one your talking about?


Yes.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby oyster » Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:27 pm

Dogwatcher wrote:
oyster wrote:
Dogwatcher wrote:Yes, but to a watered down version.
The SACFL was never going to back down on this, so it's pretty much a victory for that league.



Do all the other leagues around the state get the same watered down version of the salary cap/points system, as the one your talking about?


Yes.



Seems a waste of time having the salary cap then with ONE in particular watered down point. Basically nothing changes.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Dogwatcher » Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:00 pm

Exactly.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Swamp Donkey » Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:09 pm

oyster wrote:
Dogwatcher wrote:
oyster wrote:
Dogwatcher wrote:Yes, but to a watered down version.
The SACFL was never going to back down on this, so it's pretty much a victory for that league.



Do all the other leagues around the state get the same watered down version of the salary cap/points system, as the one your talking about?


Yes.



Seems a waste of time having the salary cap then with ONE in particular watered down point. Basically nothing changes.


It was the only way to get the BL&G over the line. The watered down version is temporary (one season only) with the full version to come in 2017 - this was at the request of one league. Funny how the biggest spenders in country footy, arguably the ones causing the biggest issues, were happy to continue as it were.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby oyster » Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:32 pm

Do all the other leagues around the state get the same watered down version of the salary cap/points system, as the one your talking about?[/quote]

Yes.[/quote]


Seems a waste of time having the salary cap then with ONE in particular watered down point. Basically nothing changes.[/quote]

It was the only way to get the BL&G over the line. The watered down version is temporary (one season only) with the full version to come in 2017 - this was at the request of one league. Funny how the biggest spenders in country footy, arguably the ones causing the biggest issues, were happy to continue as it were.[/quote]



lol lol lol
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby oyster » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:34 pm

Swamp Donkey wrote:
oyster wrote:
Swamp Donkey wrote:The name of this thread would be more accurate if it read...... the points system is crucifying clubs that have no idea when it comes to recruiting the right people and/or sustainably managing it's player payment system.


It could also be named. "The points and salary cap system, is currently crucifying country clubs so the SANFL Reserves are propped up and the SAAFL clubs who can't match the country clubs with recruiting, money, administration or volunteers, have devised a system where they think it will be tougher for country clubs to afford and attract city based players away from the city" No point in sugar coating the reasons


I don't disagree, but is it not a step in the right direction? Be interested to hear how you think they should approach and deal with the dilemma oyster if a salary cap and points system is not the answer? Yes, each strategy has their problems - but it is a complex issue.



I believe in a free and open market place. Sooner or later some country clubs and some city clubs will fall over. The lack of resources, sponsors, volunteers and players will dictate that. In the country the kids are leaving for jobs in the city. In the city, the kids have too many options other than football. Some clubs are bound to fall over. Many, many clubs have fallen over and amalgamated over time, and nothing will change in the years to come. We hardly need administrators to stop club people from running their own club, as they see fit. These football administrators have no idea how individual clubs are run and they are not qualified to make decisions about individual clubs and their futures. Only the clubs themselves and the people running them, know how their club best functions. The clubs that can afford the players shouldn't be hampered with rules to prevent them paying as they wish. If their volunteers and people want to help raise the money to purchase players, then let them. It should be an open and free market place and the AFL, CFL and every other official who wants to stick his or her nose in, should butt out. I've always maintained that most (not all), but most, administrators are frustrated footballers who weren't much chop at playing, yet want to govern and rule on the game, because they couldn't play all that well. This theory is proven in about 80% of instances.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby cracka » Tue Feb 16, 2016 3:46 am

oyster wrote:
Swamp Donkey wrote:I don't disagree, but is it not a step in the right direction? Be interested to hear how you think they should approach and deal with the dilemma oyster if a salary cap and points system is not the answer? Yes, each strategy has their problems - but it is a complex issue.

I believe in a free and open market place. Sooner or later some country clubs and some city clubs will fall over. The lack of resources, sponsors, volunteers and players will dictate that. In the country the kids are leaving for jobs in the city. In the city, the kids have too many options other than football. Some clubs are bound to fall over. Many, many clubs have fallen over and amalgamated over time, and nothing will change in the years to come. We hardly need administrators to stop club people from running their own club, as they see fit. These football administrators have no idea how individual clubs are run and they are not qualified to make decisions about individual clubs and their futures. Only the clubs themselves and the people running them, know how their club best functions. The clubs that can afford the players shouldn't be hampered with rules to prevent them paying as they wish. If their volunteers and people want to help raise the money to purchase players, then let them. It should be an open and free market place and the AFL, CFL and every other official who wants to stick his or her nose in, should butt out. I've always maintained that most (not all), but most, administrators are frustrated footballers who weren't much chop at playing, yet want to govern and rule on the game, because they couldn't play all that well. This theory is proven in about 80% of instances.

The only problem with that is in every league there are 2 or 3 clubs who have a major benefactor that is willing to fork out sh!t loads for players & 6 or 7 club's in the same league who have to work twice as hard to just to get half the dollars. Those 2 or 3 clubs will just dominate their respective competitions while not having to do the hard yards, the 6 or 7 clubs will eventually get sick of busting their arses for no return & fold. Surely that isn't healthy.
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Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Swamp Donkey » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:44 am

cracka wrote:The only problem with that is in every league there are 2 or 3 clubs who have a major benefactor that is willing to fork out sh!t loads for players & 6 or 7 club's in the same league who have to work twice as hard to just to get half the dollars. Those 2 or 3 clubs will just dominate their respective competitions while not having to do the hard yards, the 6 or 7 clubs will eventually get sick of busting their arses for no return & fold. Surely that isn't healthy.


oyster is clearly part of a club that is located relatively close to Adelaide, has the financial backing from major sponsors, and a sound population base to support the club - things many country clubs don't have. The rules were not introduced to assist the wealthy clubs - they were introduced in an attempt to move towards a more even playing field for everyone - yes we are a long way from that but its a step in the right direction in my opinion. I don't think we will ever have a system that is perfect.
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby running defender » Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:15 pm

Name the clubs in the hills with the major benefactor cracka
Enlighten me with the clubs that spend s##t loads of money
If clubs want to spend the money I say let them . Most clubs set a budget
Some don't so who cares, it's only the sanfl& SAAFL winging they can't retain the players.
Also what's clubs in the country have pokies as with clubs in the city
It's easy to point the finger at some country clubs , if they have people that want to tip in or do the hard yards let them
As I said before clubs don't run out of money they run out of players
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby jo172 » Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:21 pm

I'm very intrigued by this pervasive logic that "SAAFL winging they can't retain the players" (sic).

I can't think of a year where there haven't been more players transferring into the C9AFL then out.

It's a complete falsehood overlooking the true people pushing this, namely the AFL and SANFL.
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby cracka » Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:41 pm

running defender wrote:Name the clubs in the hills with the major benefactor cracka
Enlighten me with the clubs that spend s##t loads of money
If clubs want to spend the money I say let them . Most clubs set a budget
Some don't so who cares, it's only the sanfl& SAAFL winging they can't retain the players.
Also what's clubs in the country have pokies as with clubs in the city
It's easy to point the finger at some country clubs , if they have people that want to tip in or do the hard yards let them
As I said before clubs don't run out of money they run out of players

Name the clubs in the hills with the major benefactor crackaTorrens Valley, Uraidla, Ironbank & you guys so I've been told
Enlighten me with the clubs that spend s##t loads of money I'd say any club that complains about how unfair the salary cap is would be spending sh!t loads of money
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby running defender » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:10 pm

Wow four clubs that spend s##t loads of money on players
And your telling me that none of the other clubs spent any
Money at all . Hahndorf bottom to top without spending a cent,
Yes we had one guy pay all our u/15 and under 13 subs wow
Plus we added a veranda to our club rooms with raised funds and grants.
I don't see many improvements at other clubs happening.
The four clubs you named haven't got the luxury of a high school in our back yard either.
I know a div 2 club spent more money in 2014 to finish 5th
Than we did in 2014 to finish top , that club hasn't folded they must be able to afford it
And their last taste of glory was 35 yrs ago.
I say good luck to the clubs if they have 1 or 2 persons that want to help the club out
They are obviously very passionate about their club
The fun in football is winning
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby cracka » Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:08 am

RD, you seem to be just as confused now as you were 2 years ago when you claimed to have kicked a long left foot goal in the 2014 GF but in reality you had been retired for 20 years.
The 4 clubs I named were an answer to who I'd heard had major benefactors, not who I though spent sh!t loads of money in the HFL.
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Grumpy Old B » Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:14 pm

cracka wrote:RD, you seem to be just as confused now as you were 2 years ago when you claimed to have kicked a long left foot goal in the 2014 GF but in reality you had been retired for 20 years.
The 4 clubs I named were an answer to who I'd heard had major benefactors, not who I though spent sh!t loads of money in the HFL.


Seems like RD is a bit sensitive on this money input Cracka
I wonder if that is because Echunga have lost one of their benefactors
This could also be why a few players are leaving
BUT they do have a nice Veranda though
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby OnSong » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:08 am

Monday, 12 December 2016

COMMUNITY FOOTBALL: PLAYER PAYMENT BREACH

A South Australian community football club has breached regulations controlling the payment of players.

Community Football’s Player Payments Investigation Committee has confirmed an unnamed club has breached Regulation 31 – the Player Payment Cap.

Once the investigation is completed, a full report will be presented to the Salary Cap Commissioner to determine a penalty which may include a loss of premiership points, a loss of Approved Player Points System (APPS) points, player suspension, a fine or all of the above.

“This should serve as a warning to all clubs and players that Community Football is taking Regulation 31 very seriously,” said Community Football Manager Matt Duldig.

“Should a club choose to cheat the system, the consequences could be very damaging – not only to the club but also to the individuals found to have been involved.”

There are currently seven other club investigations underway. Despite this, Mr. Duldig said the general acceptance of the Player Payment Cap in its first year had been very encouraging.

“Although our focus is clearly on the policing of regulations, we continue to hear positive stories of the effect of the payment cap,” he said.

“Many clubs have saved money and redirected those funds towards other areas including facilities, junior development and coaching – so it’s really having a very positive effect.

“However, clubs should understand that we are determined to penalise those who are found to be cheating the system.”
Right in front of me. RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME!
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby Grumpy Old B » Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:18 pm

Very interesting there OnSong. I bet that there will be finger pointing in every association in SA. have heard that Hahndorf in the Hills have lost 3 players to South Mildura next year. One being a past mail medallist who allegedly will get $1,400 a game, $700 and $300 a game to the 2 others. They will also be getting travelling money to travel up from the hills. I guess that they must be happy with their Premiership medallion and now want to get cashed up.
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby PuttingBStorest » Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:57 pm

OnSong wrote:Monday, 12 December 2016

COMMUNITY FOOTBALL: PLAYER PAYMENT BREACH

A South Australian community football club has breached regulations controlling the payment of players.

Community Football’s Player Payments Investigation Committee has confirmed an unnamed club has breached Regulation 31 – the Player Payment Cap.

Once the investigation is completed, a full report will be presented to the Salary Cap Commissioner to determine a penalty which may include a loss of premiership points, a loss of Approved Player Points System (APPS) points, player suspension, a fine or all of the above.

“This should serve as a warning to all clubs and players that Community Football is taking Regulation 31 very seriously,” said Community Football Manager Matt Duldig.

“Should a club choose to cheat the system, the consequences could be very damaging – not only to the club but also to the individuals found to have been involved.”

There are currently seven other club investigations underway. Despite this, Mr. Duldig said the general acceptance of the Player Payment Cap in its first year had been very encouraging.

“Although our focus is clearly on the policing of regulations, we continue to hear positive stories of the effect of the payment cap,” he said.

“Many clubs have saved money and redirected those funds towards other areas including facilities, junior development and coaching – so it’s really having a very positive effect.

“However, clubs should understand that we are determined to penalise those who are found to be cheating the system.”


Can anyone enlighten me on if a player is getting paid the maximum $500/week - is the club is required to contribute to a superannuation fund and if so is the superannuation payment included in the $500 or is it paid over and above the $500 (technically therefore in breach of the cap I presume??). Thanks
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Re: Re: Points System Is Crucifying Country Footy

Postby 200 Killer Wasps » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:56 pm

All the Country premiership teams were investigated after the end of the season.
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