2015: 7 Pure A-Grade Divisions

[Lightning McQueen]

Marbles, you've got your little C grade Super League, now will you please go and take your nonsense to that thread and leave the 'A grade Divisions' for the 'A grade folk' and rid us of the rubbish that we are subjected to when your fingers come in contact with your keyboard..

You're insistence that clubs 'Stop relying on div 1 or 2 clubs to survive' is potentially the most ridiculous thing I have read from a 'C grader'..

Maybe if every club was limited to 2 senior teams only, then there would be more clubs and more players to go around for these clubs struggling to get 2 teams together.

You can't punish the strong clubs that do the right thing and attract players just to prop up clubs that obviously don't provide a stable enough environment for players to stick around.

[morell]

Marbles, you've got your little C grade Super League, now will you please go and take your nonsense to that thread and leave the 'A grade Divisions' for the 'A grade folk' and rid us of the rubbish that we are subjected to when your fingers come in contact with your keyboard..

You're insistence that clubs 'Stop relying on div 1 or 2 clubs to survive' is potentially the most ridiculous thing I have read from a 'C grader'..

Maybe if every club was limited to 2 senior teams only, then there would be more clubs and more players to go around for these clubs struggling to get 2 teams together.

I don't think we can stop clubs from having a C Grade, its a great opportunity to extend careers and its a helluva lot of fun.

Having D's, E's, F's and G's however should be discouraged IMO.

[Lightning McQueen]

id love to see Mitchell Park/Angle Vale reach the grand final and then have both of them refuse to go to Div 6 after their last experiences haha

Mitchell Park have never refused to be promoted or requested to be relegated outside of the normal protocols for relgation/promotion. In fact we have been known to put our hands up, bite the bullet and go up to D6 from D7 when we didn't make the GF and been beaten pretty handily because of it.

Besides, after last night's meeting, I got the impression that the league is committed to having ten team divisions next year and may be far more forceful in filling the grades to their capacity.

I think we can all agree that that's for the best.

Absolutely. No more refusing promotion or requesting relegation, you play where you play based on the previous years results. End of!

That seems the best way to kill off struggling clubs, I see merit but there are some extraordinary circumstances, there seems to be a lot more of these nowadays opposed to 10 years ago.

[jo172]

Marbles, you've got your little C grade Super League, now will you please go and take your nonsense to that thread and leave the 'A grade Divisions' for the 'A grade folk' and rid us of the rubbish that we are subjected to when your fingers come in contact with your keyboard..

You're insistence that clubs 'Stop relying on div 1 or 2 clubs to survive' is potentially the most ridiculous thing I have read from a 'C grader'..

Maybe if every club was limited to 2 senior teams only, then there would be more clubs and more players to go around for these clubs struggling to get 2 teams together.

I don't think we can stop clubs from having a C Grade, its a great opportunity to extend careers and its a helluva lot of fun.

Having D's, E's, F's and G's however should be discouraged IMO.

Disagree completely.

The idea that there's a bunch of blokes who currently play for PAOC or Adelaide Uni, who if weren't getting a game in their 4ths, 5ths etc. would immediately up and go to Salisbury West or North Pines is ridiculous.

All that would accomplish is less people playing the game.

[jo172]

id love to see Mitchell Park/Angle Vale reach the grand final and then have both of them refuse to go to Div 6 after their last experiences haha

Mitchell Park have never refused to be promoted or requested to be relegated outside of the normal protocols for relgation/promotion. In fact we have been known to put our hands up, bite the bullet and go up to D6 from D7 when we didn't make the GF and been beaten pretty handily because of it.

Besides, after last night's meeting, I got the impression that the league is committed to having ten team divisions next year and may be far more forceful in filling the grades to their capacity.

I think we can all agree that that's for the best.

Absolutely. No more refusing promotion or requesting relegation, you play where you play based on the previous years results. End of!

That seems the best way to kill off struggling clubs, I see merit but there are some extraordinary circumstances, there seems to be a lot more of these nowadays opposed to 10 years ago.

How many of these "extraordinary circumstances" have been partially or completely self inflicted though?

[TEX07]

Disagree completely.

The idea that there's a bunch of blokes who currently play for PAOC or Adelaide Uni, who if weren't getting a game in their 4ths, 5ths etc. would immediately up and go to Salisbury West or North Pines is ridiculous.

All that would accomplish is less people playing the game.jo172

I agree - I am currently playing D grade and if we didnt have a C and a D grade I would no longer be playing - clubs only having two sides means there would be a massive amount of people not playing - in fact you would probably need a few new clubs - there is only a handful now that have only one side and a heap with C and D grade - I cant train every night, sometimes not at all but still want to play but not take it as serious as others.

[Lightning McQueen]

How many of these "extraordinary circumstances" have been partially or completely self inflicted though?

80% of them I'd imagine, what do you prefer though, watch a club fold or watch a club hopefully learn from their mistakes.

Full credit must be given to Kilburn who stuck it out and risked closing it's doors but managed to pull through without asking for leniency.

[morell]

Marbles, you've got your little C grade Super League, now will you please go and take your nonsense to that thread and leave the 'A grade Divisions' for the 'A grade folk' and rid us of the rubbish that we are subjected to when your fingers come in contact with your keyboard..

You're insistence that clubs 'Stop relying on div 1 or 2 clubs to survive' is potentially the most ridiculous thing I have read from a 'C grader'..

Maybe if every club was limited to 2 senior teams only, then there would be more clubs and more players to go around for these clubs struggling to get 2 teams together.

I don't think we can stop clubs from having a C Grade, its a great opportunity to extend careers and its a helluva lot of fun.

Having D's, E's, F's and G's however should be discouraged IMO.

Disagree completely.

The idea that there's a bunch of blokes who currently play for PAOC or Adelaide Uni, who if weren't getting a game in their 4ths, 5ths etc. would immediately up and go to Salisbury West or North Pines is ridiculous.

All that would accomplish is less people playing the game.

Not immediately, we're not going to see 15 clearances from Adelaide Uni to North Pines if we close down the Blacks E's in 2016 ... but over a longer period of time having a more even distribution across the various clubs would happen if you limited the number of positions available on gameday. It's just basic math, simple economics and isn't really arguable to be brutally honest.

[BFG]

How many of these "extraordinary circumstances" have been partially or completely self inflicted though?

80% of them I'd imagine, what do you prefer though, watch a club fold or watch a club hopefully learn from their mistakes.

Full credit must be given to Kilburn who stuck it out and risked closing it's doors but managed to pull through without asking for leniency.

I risk going off topic here but i think it's relevant to this thread. While some clubs like Brahma, Kilburn, Salisbury West, Mitchell Park have been in strife with amounts of players leaving their club in one off season (for a variety of reasons) would it have been easier for them to attract players if the points system was not in place? Seems the system was put in place to stop or slow down exactly what is currently happenning

[morell]

Marbles, you've got your little C grade Super League, now will you please go and take your nonsense to that thread and leave the 'A grade Divisions' for the 'A grade folk' and rid us of the rubbish that we are subjected to when your fingers come in contact with your keyboard..

You're insistence that clubs 'Stop relying on div 1 or 2 clubs to survive' is potentially the most ridiculous thing I have read from a 'C grader'..

Maybe if every club was limited to 2 senior teams only, then there would be more clubs and more players to go around for these clubs struggling to get 2 teams together.

You can't punish the strong clubs that do the right thing and attract players just to prop up clubs that obviously don't provide a stable enough environment for players to stick around.

I don't buy the argument that one club is better or worse than another club in terms of environment and culture at any one time and that all any club has to do is "the right thing" and the players will flock to you. It's a very simplistic attitude typical of clubs which have been kissed on the dick either in regards to money or location or both.

The work I did to support this theory using demographics and location correlated to divisional rank is one metric for example. In general, the more playing age males you had within reach of your clubs location, the higher your club was on the divisional ladder.

[jo172]

Maybe if every club was limited to 2 senior teams only, then there would be more clubs and more players to go around for these clubs struggling to get 2 teams together.

I don't think we can stop clubs from having a C Grade, its a great opportunity to extend careers and its a helluva lot of fun.

Having D's, E's, F's and G's however should be discouraged IMO.

Disagree completely.

The idea that there's a bunch of blokes who currently play for PAOC or Adelaide Uni, who if weren't getting a game in their 4ths, 5ths etc. would immediately up and go to Salisbury West or North Pines is ridiculous.

All that would accomplish is less people playing the game.

Not immediately, we're not going to see 15 clearances from Adelaide Uni to North Pines if we close down the Blacks E's in 2016 ... but over a longer period of time having a more even distribution across the various clubs would happen if you limited the number of positions available on gameday. It's just basic math, simple economics and isn't really arguable to be brutally honest.

It is because you think there is a general demand for people wanting to play football.

You're completely overlooking that in D/E Grades the demand is for people wanting to play football for club X (be it Uni, Modbury, whoever).

If you take away the supply of people being able to play football for Club X you cannot assume that the demand for people wanting to play football for Club X will turn into demand for people just wanting to play football.

Even overlooking my point, as a practicable example, I live in the very inner eastern suburbs, assuming I'm the worst footballer in the world (quiet @wristwatcher) to get to a club without a C Grade that will have me, my closest options look like their Wingfield, Kilburn and Greenacres. Too far and wouldn't want to play there.

Your idea, in practice would just result in what happens in Melbourne and you would get University White and University Black, PAC White and PAC Black etc.

[jo172]

Marbles, you've got your little C grade Super League, now will you please go and take your nonsense to that thread and leave the 'A grade Divisions' for the 'A grade folk' and rid us of the rubbish that we are subjected to when your fingers come in contact with your keyboard..

You're insistence that clubs 'Stop relying on div 1 or 2 clubs to survive' is potentially the most ridiculous thing I have read from a 'C grader'..

Maybe if every club was limited to 2 senior teams only, then there would be more clubs and more players to go around for these clubs struggling to get 2 teams together.

You can't punish the strong clubs that do the right thing and attract players just to prop up clubs that obviously don't provide a stable enough environment for players to stick around.

I don't buy the argument that one club is better or worse than another club in terms of environment and culture at any one time and that all any club has to do is "the right thing" and the players will flock to you. It's a very simplistic attitude typical of clubs which have been kissed on the dick either in regards to money or location or both.

The work I did to support this theory using demographics and location correlated to divisional rank is one metric for example. In general, the more playing age males you had within reach of your clubs location, the higher your club was on the divisional ladder.

So what is the general merit of locating football clubs away from football playing aged males?

[Lightning McQueen]

How many of these "extraordinary circumstances" have been partially or completely self inflicted though?

80% of them I'd imagine, what do you prefer though, watch a club fold or watch a club hopefully learn from their mistakes.

Full credit must be given to Kilburn who stuck it out and risked closing it's doors but managed to pull through without asking for leniency.

I risk going off topic here but i think it's relevant to this thread. While some clubs like Brahma, Kilburn, Salisbury West, Mitchell Park have been in strife with amounts of players leaving their club in one off season (for a variety of reasons) would it have been easier for them to attract players if the points system was not in place? Seems the system was put in place to stop or slow down exactly what is currently happenning

Bottom line is that people are your number 1 commodity and if you don't look after them, they will leave, some in search for coin, some for a more attractive culture.
If you enjoy where you are playing, you are less likely to leave, there's no point chasing cash only to go back to your original club on a Saturday night because that's where your mates are.

[morell]

It is because you think there is a general demand for people wanting to play football.

You're completely overlooking that in D/E Grades the demand is for people wanting to play football for club X (be it Uni, Modbury, whoever).

No I get that people want to play for specific clubs, with specific people and at specific standards and I do agree with you somewhat. I would never play for anyone other than Mitchell Park (in SA that is) unless there were extenuating circumstances. I also agree that C Grades are great.

What makes us choose which club we play for? Mates, location, money, cultural fit and ... availability for a game, its all a big complicated soup of a decision. I’m not saying it’s a complete panacea and there needs to be a balance, but over time, if some of the larger clubs couldn't field so many teams, it absolutely would help other struggling clubs pick up players. We see it in juniors all the time...

If you take away the supply of people being able to play football for Club X you cannot assume that the demand for people wanting to play football for Club X will turn into demand for people just wanting to play football.

This is correct, and well put.

I think we’re comparing players who are playing right now, to players who haven’t even thought of who they will be having a kick for in 2020.

Even overlooking my point, as a practicable example, I live in the very inner eastern suburbs, assuming I'm the worst footballer in the world (quiet @wristwatcher) to get to a club without a C Grade that will have me, my closest options look like their Wingfield, Kilburn and Greenacres. Too far and wouldn't want to play there.

Well you wouldn’t, maybe your kids might though if they couldn’t get a spot in PNU’s U/8s? Or maybe that teenager from Ireland who wants have a kick might choose Greeancres instead on PNU if it meant he got a regular game…

Your idea, in practice would just result in what happens in Melbourne and you would get University White and University Black, PAC White and PAC Black etc.

How so? It would have the exact opposite effect as it would contribute to more clubs staying alive.

[morell]

So what is the general merit of locating football clubs away from football playing aged males?

There is no merit at all!

Demographics change though. People move. Communities adapt. Outside of relocating these things are out of clubs control.

[human_torpedo]

Oh geez, please dont tell me my Marbles rant has awoken Morell.. Heck

I unreservedly apologise to the SAFooty community if this is the case

[morell]

Bottom line is that people are your number 1 commodity and if you don't look after them, they will leave, some in search for coin, some for a more attractive culture.
If you enjoy where you are playing, you are less likely to leave, there's no point chasing cash only to go back to your original club on a Saturday night because that's where your mates are.

Define an attractive culture? One persons attractive culture is another’s nightmare. Cultures are also dynamic. I’ve been at Mitchell Park and hated the culture one year, the next year it was great. Recruitment and playing stocks did not in any way correlate to my personal impressions of the culture either.

I don’t disagree that if your club is full of bell ends, eventually it wouldn’t result in a positive outcome, but its not as easy as just having the place full of good people. Otherwise Mitchell Park would be in D2 and CLG would be in C4….

[morell]

Oh geez, please dont tell me my Marbles rant has awoken Morell.. Heck

I unreservedly apologise to the SAFooty community if this is the case

Oh cmon, this is a great discussion!!

[Lightning McQueen]

Bottom line is that people are your number 1 commodity and if you don't look after them, they will leave, some in search for coin, some for a more attractive culture.
If you enjoy where you are playing, you are less likely to leave, there's no point chasing cash only to go back to your original club on a Saturday night because that's where your mates are.

Define an attractive culture? One persons attractive culture is another’s nightmare. Cultures are also dynamic. I’ve been at Mitchell Park and hated the culture one year, the next year it was great. Recruitment and playing stocks did not in any way correlate to my personal impressions of the culture either.

I don’t disagree that if your club is full of bell ends, eventually it wouldn’t result in a positive outcome, but its not as easy as just having the place full of good people. Otherwise Mitchell Park would be in D2 and CLG would be in C4….

The young lads become fathers and what once seemed like a good laugh becomes not real suitable for a young family. Creating a good family atmosphere on a Saturday night keeps everyone happy and creates a good culture.
You and many others are exceptions, you love your club wholeheartedly whereas others wouldn't have the same tolerance, I was like that for many years but gave in and seen life was far more rewarding not dedicating every spare minute to a club.

[BFG]

Bottom line is that people are your number 1 commodity and if you don't look after them, they will leave, some in search for coin, some for a more attractive culture.
If you enjoy where you are playing, you are less likely to leave, there's no point chasing cash only to go back to your original club on a Saturday night because that's where your mates are.

Define an attractive culture? One persons attractive culture is another’s nightmare. Cultures are also dynamic. I’ve been at Mitchell Park and hated the culture one year, the next year it was great. Recruitment and playing stocks did not in any way correlate to my personal impressions of the culture either.

I don’t disagree that if your club is full of bell ends, eventually it wouldn’t result in a positive outcome, but its not as easy as just having the place full of good people. Otherwise Mitchell Park would be in D2 and CLG would be in C4….

Agree with the culture point about it changing year to year. 2010 was particularly bad at CLG where we had 9 blokes max at training on a thursday night regularly and we still finished 4th. The year after we finished 7th or 8th and had one of the best years off the field ive ever had. While Morell has stated (tongue in cheek........ or not) about the people at CLG, he makes a valid point in that the people at the club and the people that come into the club can drastically effect not only the clubs culture but the club's peformance and reputation as a destination to play. I know we've worked exceedingly hard on the social side at our club to try and build a solid foundation of people that play in lower grades becausse those people that play in your B's and C's that enjoy their footy and enjoy the club atmosphere usually have a mate or knows someone that is handy that could play in your A's in the future. That player is more likely to come and play for you if they are hearing positive things about training, social functions etc.

In saying that location does also play a huge part, being in a 4km radius of MP, Mitcham, Kenilworth, Goodwood, Unley does not bode well for the overall health of ALL of those clubs in terms of player numbers. Being a club like Henley with limited competition around, you don't have to worry about culture AS much. still an issue but becuase of location, those clubs will always have numbers.