Improving Amateur League

[Keepitreal]

Club Umpires is also a major issue with blatant bias to home teams and association medal votes (makes a farce of who wins), champion club voting system, just to mention a few.[/quote]


You're going to have to come up with something better than that. No club umps, no game, they just can't pull umps out of a hat. They need to look at a roster of umpires within their own areas somehow, not easy which ever way you look at it![/quote]

Thought we were only putting forward suggested areas for the saafl to have a serious look at as the thread suggests aceman and I didn't see you post any solutions only criticise posters highlighting deficencies.

So here is my suggested solution, all clubs currently supply a B Grade ump, saafl need to take controlling interest and asign umps from one div to another either higher or lower, would like others suggestions/ideas.

[FOURTH ESTATE]

Several years ago the SAAFL wanted to introduce neutral umpires with club umpires doing the games on a roster basis.

This was vetoed by the delegates as these umpires were only helping out the clubs and wanted to umpire their own clubs.

Shadiac's latest idea is that all clubs supply one umpire to the league panel on top of what they already supply for their club.

If clubs cannot supply an umpire for the panel they will have to pay a $1000.00 penalty as well as paying the umpires on match day.

This is something that should not forced upon clubs.

More volunteers we have to find or pay through the nose.

ONCE AGAIN TOO MANY CLUBS IN THE LEAGUE NOT ENOUGH VOLUNTEERS.



What they need to do and this may seem cruel but set a critrea to join the league not the philoshy that a game for every one. Start weeding out the clubs that cannot support the system properly. Strenghten the bottom of the league. When Ii first started playing Div 7 20 years ago it was C grade only. Now it is made up of A grade sides that go no where.

ONCE AGAIN TOO MANY CLUBS ADMITTED TO THE LEAGUE WHICH SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN!!!!!!!

[aceman]

Club Umpires is also a major issue with blatant bias to home teams and association medal votes (makes a farce of who wins), champion club voting system, just to mention a few.

You're going to have to come up with something better than that. No club umps, no game, they just can't pull umps out of a hat. They need to look at a roster of umpires within their own areas somehow, not easy which ever way you look at it![/quote]

Thought we were only putting forward suggested areas for the saafl to have a serious look at as the thread suggests aceman and I didn't see you post any solutions only criticise posters highlighting deficencies.

So here is my suggested solution, all clubs currently supply a B Grade ump, saafl need to take controlling interest and asign umps from one div to another either higher or lower, would like others suggestions/ideas.[/quote]

Where's the criticism in this? Read it properly and then get back to me

[Lightning McQueen]

There is merit in allocating umpires for other local B grade games, for example: A Smithfield allocated umpire could go and do an Eastern Park or Elizabeth game, as long as they don't have to travel extreme distances or they could apply to have a game that is close to the team that they support.

Overall, the B grade umpiring in div. 5 this year wasn't too bad, I seen worse in the A grade numerous times throughout the year, blatant cheats should be exposed to the SAAFL for them to investigate.

[HineyMan]

reading these forums it seems there are 3 main things that upset people.[ 1 ] the website, this apparently is the server,so you would think it wouldn't be too difficult to put right. [2] the budget v sportsbeat, should be easy to resolve if people put aside their egos and worked together to produce something really good. [3] the 'catering' at the finals venues that were under the control of the SAAFL, let the clubs involved do it . have not seen any complaints about the running of the league, the standard of games is good. [ according to each division ] you can walk up to any amateur game and see a good match at no cost. country leagues charge $6-$7 to get in to see a game that is D3 [D2 ,if you really get lucky ] standard. SAAFL do a lot of things right, but need to fix up the "minor' things that pi55 people off

Club Umpires is also a major issue with blatant bias to home teams and association medal votes (makes a farce of who wins), champion club voting system, just to mention a few.

I agree, GGFC B grade B&F winner did not even get in thr top 4 invites to Amateur house for the count. Gareth Smith should have figured prominently, he's a gun

[Keepitreal]

Club Umpires is also a major issue with blatant bias to home teams and association medal votes (makes a farce of who wins), champion club voting system, just to mention a few.

You're going to have to come up with something better than that. No club umps, no game, they just can't pull umps out of a hat. They need to look at a roster of umpires within their own areas somehow, not easy which ever way you look at it!

Thought we were only putting forward suggested areas for the saafl to have a serious look at as the thread suggests aceman and I didn't see you post any solutions only criticise posters highlighting deficencies.

So here is my suggested solution, all clubs currently supply a B Grade ump, saafl need to take controlling interest and asign umps from one div to another either higher or lower, would like others suggestions/ideas.[/quote]

Where's the criticism in this? Read it properly and then get back to me[/quote]

"You're going to have to come up with something better than that." didn't originally come up with anything only suggested issues to look at>

[Lightning McQueen]

reading these forums it seems there are 3 main things that upset people.[ 1 ] the website, this apparently is the server,so you would think it wouldn't be too difficult to put right. [2] the budget v sportsbeat, should be easy to resolve if people put aside their egos and worked together to produce something really good. [3] the 'catering' at the finals venues that were under the control of the SAAFL, let the clubs involved do it . have not seen any complaints about the running of the league, the standard of games is good. [ according to each division ] you can walk up to any amateur game and see a good match at no cost. country leagues charge $6-$7 to get in to see a game that is D3 [D2 ,if you really get lucky ] standard. SAAFL do a lot of things right, but need to fix up the "minor' things that pi55 people off

Club Umpires is also a major issue with blatant bias to home teams and association medal votes (makes a farce of who wins), champion club voting system, just to mention a few.

I agree, GGFC B grade B&F winner did not even get in thr top 4 invites to Amateur house for the count. Gareth Smith should have figured prominently, he's a gun

That would be the dingbat that umpired your B's fault, you guys hired him.

[HineyMan]

I would like to see the under 18's play before the A & B grade. This gives them a feel that they are classified as seniors and obviously they can watch the senior sides and type of competition they will be stepping up to in the following year. Also the A & B grade coaches can see who may be able to handle coming up even earlier. Plus the added benefits of footy club revenue and sale from the canteen, BBQ, beer, merchandising etc.

[HineyMan]

reading these forums it seems there are 3 main things that upset people.[ 1 ] the website, this apparently is the server,so you would think it wouldn't be too difficult to put right. [2] the budget v sportsbeat, should be easy to resolve if people put aside their egos and worked together to produce something really good. [3] the 'catering' at the finals venues that were under the control of the SAAFL, let the clubs involved do it . have not seen any complaints about the running of the league, the standard of games is good. [ according to each division ] you can walk up to any amateur game and see a good match at no cost. country leagues charge $6-$7 to get in to see a game that is D3 [D2 ,if you really get lucky ] standard. SAAFL do a lot of things right, but need to fix up the "minor' things that pi55 people off

Club Umpires is also a major issue with blatant bias to home teams and association medal votes (makes a farce of who wins), champion club voting system, just to mention a few.

I agree, GGFC B grade B&F winner did not even get in thr top 4 invites to Amateur house for the count. Gareth Smith should have figured prominently, he's a gun

That would be the dingbat that umpired your B's fault, you guys hired him.

yer yer, I know but in the absence of any other volunteers, what do you do.

[aceman]

Club Umpires is also a major issue with blatant bias to home teams and association medal votes (makes a farce of who wins), champion club voting system, just to mention a few.

You're going to have to come up with something better than that. No club umps, no game, they just can't pull umps out of a hat. They need to look at a roster of umpires within their own areas somehow, not easy which ever way you look at it!

Thought we were only putting forward suggested areas for the saafl to have a serious look at as the thread suggests aceman and I didn't see you post any solutions only criticise posters highlighting deficencies.

So here is my suggested solution, all clubs currently supply a B Grade ump, saafl need to take controlling interest and asign umps from one div to another either higher or lower, would like others suggestions/ideas.

No club umps, no game, they just can't pull umps out of a hat. They need to look at a roster of umpires within their own areas somehow, not easy which ever way you look at it![/quote]
This was a suggestion, it's been rehashed again and again so thought it might as well resurface. The number of umpires available is declining at a greater rate than junior players, so a suggestion might be to plough as much money into encouraging and rewarding the people who take on the task. As someone who umpired a fair bit of sport, the money earnt versus the crap you have to put up with just ain't worth it. It's no wonder it's hard to get people to do it.

[Keepitreal]

I would like to see the under 18's play before the A & B grade. This gives them a feel that they are classified as seniors and obviously they can watch the senior sides and type of competition they will be stepping up to in the following year. Also the A & B grade coaches can see who may be able to handle coming up even earlier. Plus the added benefits of footy club revenue and sale from the canteen, BBQ, beer, merchandising etc.

What about u-18's that currently play A's or B's on Saturday & have already stepped up, then their own game on Sundays?

[Keepitreal]

This was a suggestion, it's been rehashed again and again so thought it might as well resurface. The number of umpires available is declining at a greater rate than junior players, so a suggestion might be to plough as much money into encouraging and rewarding the people who take on the task. As someone who umpired a fair bit of sport, the money earnt versus the crap you have to put up with just ain't worth it. It's no wonder it's hard to get people to do it.[/quote]

Agree with rewards and recruitment, but all clubs managed to supply a B Grade ump this season (didn't hear of any games canceled due to no show umps) so now have plenty of time to recruit and supply for roster system in 09.

[Lightning McQueen]

I would like to see the under 18's play before the A & B grade. This gives them a feel that they are classified as seniors and obviously they can watch the senior sides and type of competition they will be stepping up to in the following year. Also the A & B grade coaches can see who may be able to handle coming up even earlier. Plus the added benefits of footy club revenue and sale from the canteen, BBQ, beer, merchandising etc.

What about u-18's that currently play A's or B's on Saturday & have already stepped up, then their own game on Sundays?

Agreed

[finn]

I umpire as well as coach at uni and i can say that one of the biggest drawbacks to umpiring is the disregard shown to them by the players. Yes its a passionate game and should always be treated as such but if rugby union can enforce its respect towards umpires why not encourage a cultural shift towards that within the saafl member clubs (which i do believe is happening across many clubs). Rewards of umpiring then should also perhaps be increased so that recently retired players consider it.
The saafl have the stick that is its zero tolerance policy regarding abuse.

I'd add that perhaps there should be a system in place by which an official saafl observer can be contacted regarding club umpires considered dubious who are monitored by independent observers.

Most club umpires I've come across in my 5 years of doing this don't cheat - they mightn't always make the right decision but who does not make one or two mistakes when playing. They try to be fair, to be consistent - perhaps some guidance/courses could be provided to club umpires by more professional umpires from the sanfl during the week on such things as ground coverage, placement and technique. Of course there are some bad apples who give themselves and their clubs a bad name but often this sorts itself out in the finals when independent umpires are named and teams relying on friendly decisions don't get them, get frustrated and get penalised further.

A roster system wouldn't work as most club umpires I've talked to have said that they wouldn't want to be involved in such a system for a variety of reasons including travel, time, behavioural issues, lack of immediacy of helping their club among others.

[Lightning McQueen]

I umpire as well as coach at uni and i can say that one of the biggest drawbacks to umpiring is the disregard shown to them by the players. Yes its a passionate game and should always be treated as such but if rugby union can enforce its respect towards umpires why not encourage a cultural shift towards that within the saafl member clubs (which i do believe is happening across many clubs). Rewards of umpiring then should also perhaps be increased so that recently retired players consider it.
The saafl have the stick that is its zero tolerance policy regarding abuse.

I'd add that perhaps there should be a system in place by which an official saafl observer can be contacted regarding club umpires considered dubious who are monitored by independent observers.

Most club umpires I've come across in my 5 years of doing this don't cheat - they mightn't always make the right decision but who does not make one or two mistakes when playing. They try to be fair, to be consistent - perhaps some guidance/courses could be provided to club umpires by more professional umpires from the sanfl during the week on such things as ground coverage, placement and technique. Of course there are some bad apples who give themselves and their clubs a bad name but often this sorts itself out in the finals when independent umpires are named and teams relying on friendly decisions don't get them, get frustrated and get penalised further.

A roster system wouldn't work as most club umpires I've talked to have said that they wouldn't want to be involved in such a system for a variety of reasons including travel, time, behavioural issues, lack of immediacy of helping their club among others.

Surely not at the same time?

[aceman]

I umpire as well as coach at uni and i can say that one of the biggest drawbacks to umpiring is the disregard shown to them by the players. Yes its a passionate game and should always be treated as such but if rugby union can enforce its respect towards umpires why not encourage a cultural shift towards that within the saafl member clubs (which i do believe is happening across many clubs). Rewards of umpiring then should also perhaps be increased so that recently retired players consider it.
The saafl have the stick that is its zero tolerance policy regarding abuse.

I'd add that perhaps there should be a system in place by which an official saafl observer can be contacted regarding club umpires considered dubious who are monitored by independent observers.

Most club umpires I've come across in my 5 years of doing this don't cheat - they mightn't always make the right decision but who does not make one or two mistakes when playing. They try to be fair, to be consistent - perhaps some guidance/courses could be provided to club umpires by more professional umpires from the sanfl during the week on such things as ground coverage, placement and technique. Of course there are some bad apples who give themselves and their clubs a bad name but often this sorts itself out in the finals when independent umpires are named and teams relying on friendly decisions don't get them, get frustrated and get penalised further.

A roster system wouldn't work as most club umpires I've talked to have said that they wouldn't want to be involved in such a system for a variety of reasons including travel, time, behavioural issues, lack of immediacy of helping their club among others.

Your ideas all have some merit, the only one I could question would be finding the independent observers with enough footy knowledge to understand what's happening and if it's right or wrong.
I agree with your other comments, now all that has to be done is get them implimented.

[finn]

I umpire as well as coach at uni and i can say that one of the biggest drawbacks to umpiring is the disregard shown to them by the players. Yes its a passionate game and should always be treated as such but if rugby union can enforce its respect towards umpires why not encourage a cultural shift towards that within the saafl member clubs (which i do believe is happening across many clubs). Rewards of umpiring then should also perhaps be increased so that recently retired players consider it.
The saafl have the stick that is its zero tolerance policy regarding abuse.

I'd add that perhaps there should be a system in place by which an official saafl observer can be contacted regarding club umpires considered dubious who are monitored by independent observers.

Most club umpires I've come across in my 5 years of doing this don't cheat - they mightn't always make the right decision but who does not make one or two mistakes when playing. They try to be fair, to be consistent - perhaps some guidance/courses could be provided to club umpires by more professional umpires from the sanfl during the week on such things as ground coverage, placement and technique. Of course there are some bad apples who give themselves and their clubs a bad name but often this sorts itself out in the finals when independent umpires are named and teams relying on friendly decisions don't get them, get frustrated and get penalised further.

A roster system wouldn't work as most club umpires I've talked to have said that they wouldn't want to be involved in such a system for a variety of reasons including travel, time, behavioural issues, lack of immediacy of helping their club among others.

Surely not at the same time?

i multitask well...

umpire the morning game, coach the afternoon game

[Lightning McQueen]

I umpire as well as coach at uni and i can say that one of the biggest drawbacks to umpiring is the disregard shown to them by the players. Yes its a passionate game and should always be treated as such but if rugby union can enforce its respect towards umpires why not encourage a cultural shift towards that within the saafl member clubs (which i do believe is happening across many clubs). Rewards of umpiring then should also perhaps be increased so that recently retired players consider it.
The saafl have the stick that is its zero tolerance policy regarding abuse.

I'd add that perhaps there should be a system in place by which an official saafl observer can be contacted regarding club umpires considered dubious who are monitored by independent observers.

Most club umpires I've come across in my 5 years of doing this don't cheat - they mightn't always make the right decision but who does not make one or two mistakes when playing. They try to be fair, to be consistent - perhaps some guidance/courses could be provided to club umpires by more professional umpires from the sanfl during the week on such things as ground coverage, placement and technique. Of course there are some bad apples who give themselves and their clubs a bad name but often this sorts itself out in the finals when independent umpires are named and teams relying on friendly decisions don't get them, get frustrated and get penalised further.

A roster system wouldn't work as most club umpires I've talked to have said that they wouldn't want to be involved in such a system for a variety of reasons including travel, time, behavioural issues, lack of immediacy of helping their club among others.

Surely not at the same time?

i multitask well...

umpire the morning game, coach the afternoon game

Who addresses the players pre-game?

[Keepitreal]

Most club umpires I've come across in my 5 years of doing this don't cheat - they mightn't always make the right decision but who does not make one or two mistakes when playing. They try to be fair, to be consistent - perhaps some guidance/courses could be provided to club umpires by more professional umpires from the sanfl during the week on such things as ground coverage, placement and technique. Of course there are some bad apples who give themselves and their clubs a bad name but often this sorts itself out in the finals when independent umpires are named and teams relying on friendly decisions don't get them, get frustrated and get penalised further.

This is why clubs should have to hire & supply umpires to the league that are then allocated to different divs paid accordingly, maybe a travel allowance as well.

Have been exposed to some blatant club umpire cheats over the years (and yes one particular UNI D grade cheat), another one who didn't award a single free to the opposing team over 4 quarters, send offs with out replacements & no report submitted, ball brought back after a goal for another set shot, list goes on and on!

Only way to resolve is neutral umpires.

[finn]

This is why clubs should have to hire & supply umpires to the league that are then allocated to different divs paid accordingly, maybe a travel allowance as well.
Only way to resolve is neutral umpires.

perhaps the saafl should also instigate some active recruitment campaigns re umpires rather than solely relying on the clubs to ante up?

i just know that many umpires would want to be involved in a roster system as many see that it has no direct input onto their club of choice - even though it actually does.

i tend to address the players - just make it short sharp and sweet - have enough experience in the side that they know how we want to play and what we need to do.