SA Footy

I'm sure most clubs would welcome this simply for the sake of having 2 games on the day as opposed to 1.

hillscrow wrote:Thanks. SAAFL have now communicated to clubs. Mitchell Pk in As & Flinders Uni in Bs. Sounds like the beginning of the end or a beautiful relationship!

Will Mitchell Park have access to Flinders Uni's better players? Will Mitchell Parks B Graders be able to play for Flinders Uni? Will either or have to now get clearances every week if they get promoted or dropped? So many questions

I understand how the points system is supposed to work and make it fair for everyone. But I just cant see the positives the system has on many clubs. All I see is that the system can hold back a club's recruiting process and it shouldnt work like that. If you're a club in Div 7 -6 and looking to climb higher. You need to attract players from higher clubs (I.e $$$$ or other incentives). Thats just that simple. But the points sytem stops you from doing that.

If you get approached from a player that lives in your area and wants to play for you because he lives close to your club, but plays for a higher division. In the back of your head you know he is going to be worth higher points and that may mean you may bot be able to use him because it may exceed what points you have left. If that makes any sense.

I think every club deserves to be able to recruit players or sign players no matter where they have played with no loss of any points. It worked for so long and now it seems to me its more of a nuisance than it is a benefit.

From an email sent to clubs today:

Both Mitchell Park and Flinders University have experienced a mass exodus of players & or retirements with both clubs going from 3 teams each in 2013 to 1 team each in 2014. Both clubs are in the process of establishing a Memorandum of Understanding which will see them join forces with the Mitchell Park FC competing in the Division 6 and Flinders University in 6 Reserves. Players will be selected on merit and will interchange from one side to the other just as other clubs do from A to B grade and vica verca. Given the late notice, the Division 6 Reserves team will still wear the FUFC uniform to honour sponsorship agreements written before today.

Footy Chick wrote:From an email sent to clubs today:

Both Mitchell Park and Flinders University have experienced a mass exodus of players & or retirements with both clubs going from 3 teams each in 2013 to 1 team each in 2014. Both clubs are in the process of establishing a Memorandum of Understanding which will see them join forces with the Mitchell Park FC competing in the Division 6 and Flinders University in 6 Reserves. Players will be selected on merit and will interchange from one side to the other just as other clubs do from A to B grade and vica verca. Given the late notice, the Division 6 Reserves team will still wear the FUFC uniform to honour sponsorship agreements written before today.

Possibly the best outcome given the circumstances.

Bombers4EVA wrote:I understand how the points system is supposed to work and make it fair for everyone. But I just cant see the positives the system has on many clubs. All I see is that the system can hold back a club's recruiting process and it shouldnt work like that. If you're a club in Div 7 -6 and looking to climb higher. You need to attract players from higher clubs (I.e $$$$ or other incentives). Thats just that simple. But the points sytem stops you from doing that.

Or you can try and build sustainable growth not based on attracting players from other clubs, but by building a successful junior football program and gaining an influx of 0 point players every year.

What the system does is prevent clubs moving through the divisions unsustainably and relying solely upon the recruitment of new players every year.

For lack of a better word, it rewards clubs who give something back to the game.

Bombers4EVA wrote:If you get approached from a player that lives in your area and wants to play for you because he lives close to your club, but plays for a higher division. In the back of your head you know he is going to be worth higher points and that may mean you may bot be able to use him because it may exceed what points you have left. If that makes any sense.

I think every club deserves to be able to recruit players or sign players no matter where they have played with no loss of any points. It worked for so long and now it seems to me its more of a nuisance than it is a benefit.

It does, but 15 points is a lot of points. It's essentially 5 new division 1-3 players (and then after they've played for a year, they're only worth 10 points)!

Clubs that are counting on using their full points allocation every week should be aware of the inherent risk in doing so.

heater31 wrote:

Footy Chick wrote:From an email sent to clubs today:

Both Mitchell Park and Flinders University have experienced a mass exodus of players & or retirements with both clubs going from 3 teams each in 2013 to 1 team each in 2014. Both clubs are in the process of establishing a Memorandum of Understanding which will see them join forces with the Mitchell Park FC competing in the Division 6 and Flinders University in 6 Reserves. Players will be selected on merit and will interchange from one side to the other just as other clubs do from A to B grade and vica verca. Given the late notice, the Division 6 Reserves team will still wear the FUFC uniform to honour sponsorship agreements written before today.

Possibly the best outcome given the circumstances.

At least it gives both clubs an opportunity to regroup and further develop for the future. Plus ensuring players have to actually train to get a game.

jo172 wrote:...What the system does is prevent clubs moving through the divisions unsustainably and relying solely upon the recruitment of new players every year...

So as I have argued for a while now, the rule is there to protect clubs from themselves. What a disgrace.

Footy Chick wrote:From an email sent to clubs today:

Both Mitchell Park and Flinders University have experienced a mass exodus of players & or retirements with both clubs going from 3 teams each in 2013 to 1 team each in 2014. Both clubs are in the process of establishing a Memorandum of Understanding which will see them join forces with the Mitchell Park FC competing in the Division 6 and Flinders University in 6 Reserves. Players will be selected on merit and will interchange from one side to the other just as other clubs do from A to B grade and vica verca. Given the late notice, the Division 6 Reserves team will still wear the FUFC uniform to honour sponsorship agreements written before today.

What about Angle Vale? They had crisis talks last week and from what I got told in the pub on the weekend are no chance to fill 2 sides and their A Grade side would struggle in C4.

jo172 wrote:Or you can try and build sustainable growth not based on attracting players from other clubs, but by building a successful junior football program and gaining an influx of 0 point players every year.

What the system does is prevent clubs moving through the divisions unsustainably and relying solely upon the recruitment of new players every year.

For lack of a better word, it rewards clubs who give something back to the game.

All well and good proving as an incentive for clubs to build sustainable growth and increase a focus around junior programs, but you've got to have the infrastructure and support around and within the club first before you can do that, also it take a long time to get a strong program operating properly - kids dont just drop out the sky, neither do volunteers.

Seeing more clubs dropping away rapidly with numbers, which is ultimately hurting the competition and other clubs but most of all hurting their own clubs and chance of development and success.

Look Good In Leather wrote:

jo172 wrote:...What the system does is prevent clubs moving through the divisions unsustainably and relying solely upon the recruitment of new players every year...

So as I have argued for a while now, the rule is there to protect clubs from themselves. What a disgrace.

the points system is a massive fail..we never needed it..didnt ask for it..had it shoved down our throats..

jo: what is your local club mate? do you know how long its takes to set up a junior program and have that program supplying players to the senior teams? what are clubs meant to do in the interim when they cant recruit more than 15 points worth of players each year and they have their depth/B grade players poached by other leagues who are desperate for zero pointers and pay them $100-200 a game? clubs want to rise in the divisions not tread water for 10 years..

Phantom Gossiper wrote:

jo172 wrote:Or you can try and build sustainable growth not based on attracting players from other clubs, but by building a successful junior football program and gaining an influx of 0 point players every year.

What the system does is prevent clubs moving through the divisions unsustainably and relying solely upon the recruitment of new players every year.

For lack of a better word, it rewards clubs who give something back to the game.

All well and good proving as an incentive for clubs to build sustainable growth and increase a focus around junior programs, but you've got to have the infrastructure and support around and within the club first before you can do that, also it take a long time to get a strong program operating properly - kids dont just drop out the sky, neither do volunteers.

Seeing more clubs dropping away rapidly with numbers, which is ultimately hurting the competition and other clubs but most of all hurting their own clubs and chance of development and success.

I completely agree, the Club's which are benefiting from this are either Old Colls side, or club's beneffiting from the work their junior committee's have done over the past 15+ years. There is no real quick fix under this system.

Conceptually though, I like it in that as a matter of principle I think the League is healthier where the higher grades are populated by club's who do not need to rely on outside recruitment in order to remain competitive/sustainable.

I think it's a good idea that if you are (almost) entirely reliant upon recruitment then you should find life in the higher divisions disproportionately difficult to say a Tea Tree Gully or Sacred Heart.

zedman wrote:

Look Good In Leather wrote:

jo172 wrote:...What the system does is prevent clubs moving through the divisions unsustainably and relying solely upon the recruitment of new players every year...

So as I have argued for a while now, the rule is there to protect clubs from themselves. What a disgrace.

the points system is a massive fail..we never needed it..didnt ask for it..had it shoved down our throats..

jo: what is your local club mate? do you know how long its takes to set up a junior program and have that program supplying players to the senior teams? what are clubs meant to do in the interim when they cant recruit more than 15 points worth of players each year and they have their depth/B grade players poached by other leagues who are desperate for zero pointers and pay them $100-200 a game? clubs want to rise in the divisions not tread water for 10 years..

I don't mention my home club (although it's not particularly cryptic to work out) as I believe it opens up the discussion to ad hominem attacks which obfuscate the discussion at hand.

As I wrote to Phantom I accept that should any given club which does not have an established junior program wish to suddenly open an Under 14s-18s side they're pushing shit up hill.

The poaching of reserves players for money is admittedly the first time I've heard of such a thing. I did not realise this is a problem and that may take some re-assessment.

As for club's moving up the divisions, I tend to think that where a club does not have a sustainable base regarding their success the League may be better without these club's having an inherent right to try and spend/recruit their way up the divisions. This is the exact reason why in just the last month we've see Kilburn and Brahma Lodge pushed to the brink.

jo172 wrote:The poaching of reserves players for money is admittedly the first time I've heard of such a thing. I did not realise this is a problem and that may take some re-assessment.

How did you think clubs in lower grades went out encouraging quality players to their club without hindering on the points?

jo172 wrote:As for club's moving up the divisions, I tend to think that where a club does not have a sustainable base regarding their success the League may be better without these club's having an inherent right to try and spend/recruit their way up the divisions. This is the exact reason why in just the last month we've see Kilburn and Brahma Lodge pushed to the brink.

It all balances out in the long run though, even before the points system a club like Kilburn would go through great highs and terrible lows.
All the points system has done is make it more difficult for them to set up good programs.
Kilburn and Brahma have also worked hard in recent years on developing juniors as i believe Mitchell Park have.

The point system needs to go plain and simple. Let each club recruit their own way and best of luck to them. You shouldnt be punished because you wanna try and recruit a player who wants to leave the club they are playing for that is unfortunately, based in a higher division.

Establishing a junior program is always going to be a lot of hard work and commitment. It is true though that having juniors benefits the seniors. As the money made from the juniors supplement the seniors. A lot of people needed to committ themselves a lot throughout the season. And that doesnt just mean game day either.

So if you're a club without a junior program and purely rely on players living in your area, coach bringing players with him, or ex students. Recruiting of players from other clubs is essential to your club if you want to be successful and play in higher divisions. Taking the point system away will most definately help those aclubs succeed in attracting players to their club.

Yank Man wrote:

heater31 wrote:

Footy Chick wrote:From an email sent to clubs today:

Both Mitchell Park and Flinders University have experienced a mass exodus of players & or retirements with both clubs going from 3 teams each in 2013 to 1 team each in 2014. Both clubs are in the process of establishing a Memorandum of Understanding which will see them join forces with the Mitchell Park FC competing in the Division 6 and Flinders University in 6 Reserves. Players will be selected on merit and will interchange from one side to the other just as other clubs do from A to B grade and vica verca. Given the late notice, the Division 6 Reserves team will still wear the FUFC uniform to honour sponsorship agreements written before today.

Possibly the best outcome given the circumstances.

At least it gives both clubs an opportunity to regroup and further develop for the future. Plus ensuring players have to actually train to get a game.

Damnit.

If all clubs in the SAAFL were to sign a petition against the points system. The SAAFL would have to look into removing it wouldnt they??

Bombers4EVA wrote:If all clubs in the SAAFL were to sign a petition against the points system. The SAAFL would have to look into removing it wouldnt they??

The Points System is bigger than the SAAFL, it's an imposition by the Community Football Board.

The Stick which was used to make the Points System come in was that if the SAAFL did not agree to it than all SAAFL players would be worth zero points to Leagues which had the APPS system.

The alternative was hardly preferable!

Bombers4EVA wrote:If all clubs in the SAAFL were to sign a petition against the points system. The SAAFL would have to look into removing it wouldnt they??

What's your motive for removing it? Seem to have a lot of vested interest in this for a supposed retired spectator....