Old Scholars Sides - Should They Keep the Faith?

[Jimmy_041]

There is an issue that all old scholars sides have to contend with:

Is our club here exclusively for old scholars or should we admit players in general? If so, do we establish a criteria for admitting a non-old scholar or a group of players?

Do we have to, and should we, pay players to attract them or keep them? And again, old scholars, non-old scholars or both?

Do we need to pay players to get up to the top level?

Does our club want to go down this path?

I can say, after 30 years in my club, these questions are still on the agenda and I still dont have a position on the subject

I have returned the favour of admittance by sending my son to PAC, but what do you think?

[Lazarus]

You could say the same for district clubs. Is their purpose solely to provide a facility for local boys to play football? District players have their location in common, college players have the school. Why should that affect the question of whether the club should pay up or not?

[Jimmy_041]

Actually, it was your question in the Div 3 forum that made me raise the issue in a separate thread.

I agree, but the question is whether you stick to the original principle or constitution of the club or expand for either success or survival? I would think most district clubs are now open, whereas most old scholars clubs cling, rightly or wrongly, to the closed, or semi-closed, club doctrine

I look at St Michaels who have a A class school football programme but their old scholars club have had several mergers, or Scotch who have had, as I remember, an open club.

[Lazarus]

To be honest I thought most of the college players just wanted to play with their mates and didn't give a toss what school people went to.

District sides have to contend with other sides competing for their kids from an early age, hence the reason they are less insular than college sides.

[old moz]

cannot comment on any question but #3 ---answer is yes
the rest will be answered by the committee [board ] at the time
very interesting subject for O.S clubs

[Lazarus]

I think SHOCs are a good measuring stick.

They have been the best football school over a long period of time but used to be down in div 3. By getting the old school boys back to the club they managed to get to the bottom of div 1 but not any higher.

SHOC have reached the limit for a non paying club. PAOC, SPOC and Scotch will not make it as high as SPOC unless they pay $$$ as they don't have the same talent pool.

[Jimmy_041]

You forget Rostrevor

[Lazarus]

I said without $$$$$.

[Orts]

I cant believe this question even gets a run on the forums. I played at Old Igs for years and we always had non-old scholars playing with us many of them great mates of mine.

Quite simply, if Igs had such a policy I wouldn't have played for them. Such a policy is the total opposite to what footy clubs are about in my view.

I'm sure there are plenty of district club people reading this thread having a good chuckle. This will certainly strengthen their perception that college sides are full of soft, up themselves snobs.

Jimmy- perhaps it would be more appropriate if you changed the title of the forum to only include your club because I cant imagine many other old scholars teams have given more than a moments thought to the idea.

[finn]

orts - jimmy raises a valid point - just because old ignatians have had a non-exclusive policy doesn't mean that other old scholar sides have it. his point with clubs being called old scholars should they restrict themselves to old scholars or be open is basically one of identity, and how and where they define themselves.
personally, i could think of nothing worse than playing with the same people i went through school with- and everybody having the same experience and worldview; this of course is comforting to some people and drives others away - part of the beauty of any club is the range of personalities involved.

[White Unicorn]

I think its a valid discussion point, as quite often the first thing that comes out of a potentional recruits mouth is "do you have had to go to the college to play?" But it would be extremely naive to go down the path of exclutivity as what we have found at SHOC over the years is quite often the players that have come from the country or from elsewhere are the players that play 200 games and become committee members etc. I would say about 15-20% are not from SHC, but also the main key for success in Old Scholars clubs is to forge a strong relationship with the school and make it as attractive as possible that the players from school footy who dont make SANFL or are returning from SANFL, their first instinct is to play for the Old Scholars with their mates.

[Jimmy_041]

Sorry Orts - I'll make sure I check with you before I post the next one.

In the meantime, the discussion is more prevalent than you think

[On1Leg]

If PAOC have certain criteria for those who aren't old scholars to join, no wonder they haven't been near Div 1 in recent times?
Clubs like SHOC and ROC have been able to climb to Div 1 by providing an enjoyable environment to play football, no matter whether players are old scholars or not.
Whether an old scholar club can maintain their position in Div 1 without going down the track of paying several recruits is yet to be proven. ROC couldn't do it - they tried to hang in there by getting out the coin. It will be interesting to see how SHOC manage to maintain a position in Div 1 and their Amateur status.

[teaoby]

If PAOC have certain criteria for those who aren't old scholars to join, no wonder they haven't been near Div 1 in recent times?
Clubs like SHOC and ROC have been able to climb to Div 1 by providing an enjoyable environment to play football, no matter whether players are old scholars or not.
Whether an old scholar club can maintain their position in Div 1 without going down the track of paying several recruits is yet to be proven. ROC couldn't do it - they tried to hang in there by getting out the coin. It will be interesting to see how SHOC manage to maintain a position in Div 1 and their Amateur status.

in the long run it comes down to, do you follow the constitution of the club to the letter or do you let it slip to go up div's no matter the cost.

imo the way PAOC is situated now is where we should be, having heaps of kids come out from the school which wasnt happening, whilst also putting maximum effort to get old cols from other clubs to come back. and then when a bloke comes along who is a mate, ie vaughn noonan came this year as a mate of jr thomas you accomadate the bloke as best the club can. and in vaughns case we promoted his landscaping business.

as said above in some form or another all clubs have to in the long run give some form of incentive, we do booze vouchers for the whole club and some cash incentives in the A's. div 1 these days is a money grabers league and college teams imo will always hover between div2&3, which i really dont think is a bad thing.

[Latte Lad]

Finn, just to dispell any misconceptions you have about old scholars sides, in particular PAOC, we have a very wide range of individuals in our club, different backgrounds, "world views" as you call it, nationalities, ages, etc. Plumbers, lawyers, chippies, brownlow medallists , students, "in between jobs", you name it. Please don't stereotype college sides as being made up exclusivley of white collar professionals with limited views and life experiences, couldnt be further from the truth.

[stimpy]

well considering a lot of colleges offer scholarships to gun footy players to get them to school, one might consider that throwing money around to recruit to your team.
that you guys do it a lot earlier in the life of a footballer than other clubs shouldn't really matter. i think it's the principle of it.
you're already doing it my friend. just on a different level.

[White Unicorn]

well considering a lot of colleges offer scholarships to gun footy players to get them to school, one might consider that throwing money around to recruit to your team.
that you guys do it a lot earlier in the life of a footballer than other clubs shouldn't really matter. i think it's the principle of it.
you're already doing it my friend. just on a different level.

che?

[sprinttospace]

our club is open to everyone, has been from the start and will always be.
we pay no players. that will ultimately impact on us. reality is if you don't have much money you can't pay for something.
we just keep plugging away and as long as my arse points to the ground i intend to provide a competitive grass roots footy club for anyone to play at.
we are up against the junior clubs that our old scholars have played for and now we are up against our players being lured to other clubs for money - old scholars and non old scholars clubs alike.
we just provide a good footy environment and have a fantastic pub sponsor in the Wellington Hotel - North Adelaide.

[stimpy]

sorry, even confused myself a bit when i read it back to myself
was just making reference to the comment that div 1 is a money grabbers league (untrue). a bit of a generalisation. and that colleges are no stranger to offering things for recruits.
an old collegian side has similar struggles to other clubs. there are always clubs out there throwing more money at players than what your side can offer. look at what some country clubs offering.

[Jimmy_041]

If PAOC have certain criteria for those who aren't old scholars to join, no wonder they haven't been near Div 1 in recent times?Clubs like SHOC and ROC have been able to climb to Div 1 by providing an enjoyable environment to play football, no matter whether players are old scholars or not.
Whether an old scholar club can maintain their position in Div 1 without going down the track of paying several recruits is yet to be proven. ROC couldn't do it - they tried to hang in there by getting out the coin. It will be interesting to see how SHOC manage to maintain a position in Div 1 and their Amateur status.

We made it back to D2 5 years ago, led by Chris Threadgold, but ran out of puff with the players we had; as they retired

To me, we have a side to make it back to D2, but can our club go that one more step back to D1 and stay there with just PAOC players and staying amateur?? I agree, but disagree, with Laz about our resources to make it in D1.