Under 18 penalties.

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Under 18 penalties.

Postby Lightning McQueen » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:25 pm

To avoid clogging the Div. 6 thread with unrelated posts, I'll transfer the current discussion to here.
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Re: Under 18 penalties.

Postby Lightning McQueen » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:26 pm

Footy Chick wrote:
Phantom Gossiper wrote:
wristwatcher wrote:Ingle Farm has turned the corner no doubt but let's not forget a few incidents in recent years. I don't think you can actually logically make that claim from Div 6. You might be getting a little carried away there XRunna.

On the way up - Yes
Improved - Yes
Comparable to the top 5-10 clubs in SAAFL - let's have a chat in a few years.

Ingle Farms record in recent years would stack up admirably I would think. A degree of credit and respect needs to go to Wayne Knowles for that as well, incidents the Farm has experienced in recent seasons has been dealt with swiftly and harshly by the club.

I would agree with X, Ingle Farm would in recent times indeed be among the better disciplined clubs. Show me stats that prove otherwise..


Sorry to pinpoint this kid Farmer folk, but WTF did he do to get 8 games?

29/06/2014
9/07/2014
Cooper Blokland - Investigation - Ingle Farm - U18R - Engaging in a Melee - Intentional - Guilty - 4
29/06/2014
9/07/2014
Cooper Blokland - Investigation - Ingle Farm - U18R - Engaging in rough conduct against an opponent in which the circumstances is unreasonable
Intentional - High - Severe - Guilty - 4


All the big penalties appear to be coming from kids in the 18s this year - why are kids nowdays so bloody angry (in general)?

Just imagine them once the do-gooders abolish time out and the naughty corner!

Edit - This post not designed for all you others to start having cracks at the Farm.
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Re: Under 18 penalties.

Postby Lightning McQueen » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:26 pm

Dogwatcher wrote:Are young men more angry? Or is our response, in line with modern society's expectations, an attempt at complete sanitisation of people's actions? Are the penalties not taking into account that young men of that age have a fair amount of energy that needs to be worked out and often have undeveloped coping mechanisms for dealing with such situations?
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Re: Under 18 penalties.

Postby Lightning McQueen » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:27 pm

Lightning McQueen wrote:
Dogwatcher wrote:Are young men more angry? Or is our response, in line with modern society's expectations, an attempt at complete sanitisation of people's actions? Are the penalties not taking into account that young men of that age have a fair amount of energy that needs to be worked out and often have undeveloped coping mechanisms for dealing with such situations?


I'd be thinking high testosterone levels accompanied by the league trying to set precedents to the young lads that it's not the way to conduct themselves on the football field.
In a perfect world we should find alternative measures to curb the enthusiasm of the young lads and find alternative ways to punish them, perhaps whacking an orange shirt on them for some junior games so they can see how difficult it can be for umpires when faced with hostile matches.
Just a thought.
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Re: Under 18 penalties.

Postby Lightning McQueen » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:27 pm

Dogwatcher wrote:I think that'd be a brilliant and innovative solution, LM.
Rather than a suspension, players could reduce their penalty by accepting an umpiring role for a certain number of games.
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Re: Under 18 penalties.

Postby Lightning McQueen » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:28 pm

Phantom Gossiper wrote:
Footy Chick wrote:Sorry to pinpoint this kid Farmer folk, but WTF did he do to get 8 games?
Cooper Blokland - Investigation - Ingle Farm - U18R - Engaging in a Melee - Intentional - Guilty - 4
Cooper Blokland - Investigation - Ingle Farm - U18R - Engaging in rough conduct against an opponent in which the circumstances is unreasonable
Intentional - High - Severe - Guilty - 4

I don't know the full story exactly what happened, all i've heard is that a bit of a scuffle or "Melee" broke out in the U18's game against Salisbury towards the end of the match, several lads were involved, but from what i'm told the runner from Salisbury went into it, Cooper grabbed the runner by the scruff of the neck and launched him from the pack.

Cooper is a sized lad and very strong so not suprised the runner apparently went flying.

It's a real shame because the kid is a gun full forward.

My guess is the league is cracking down hard on these things especially in the 18's to perhaps stamp out any nonsense at a young age hence the severe penalty? Dont know.
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Re: Under 18 penalties.

Postby Lightning McQueen » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:28 pm

Lightning McQueen wrote:
Cohiba wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:
Dogwatcher wrote:Are young men more angry? Or is our response, in line with modern society's expectations, an attempt at complete sanitisation of people's actions? Are the penalties not taking into account that young men of that age have a fair amount of energy that needs to be worked out and often have undeveloped coping mechanisms for dealing with such situations?


I'd be thinking high testosterone levels accompanied by the league trying to set precedents to the young lads that it's not the way to conduct themselves on the football field.
In a perfect world we should find alternative measures to curb the enthusiasm of the young lads and find alternative ways to punish them, perhaps whacking an orange shirt on them for some junior games so they can see how difficult it can be for umpires when faced with hostile matches.
Just a thought.


Could be a solution.......but depending on how Junior the Games are I can't recall what you might describe as a hostile Junior match albeit you would only need a rudimentary knowledge of the rules, would you achieve the objective?

Alternatively if rehabilitation means by umpiring Junior Games at the under 16's & under 18's level would the offender do that before after an umpires course?

And as Junior games are played on Sundays would he still be permitted to play on the Saturday's given the punishment is in fact lieu of suspension?

It was a bit open-ended and straight off the cuff, I umpire anywhere from Under 6's to A Grade country footy as well as women's state league, I do notice that the 15 to 16 year old age bracket are the ones that look like they could turn hostile at the drop of the hat, being played on a Friday night or late on a Sunday there's a tendency to attract spectators that will indulge in a beer or two whilst watching which in turn attracts more banter.
I still think that some suspension stand but also they should look at other forms of punishment.
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Re: Under 18 penalties.

Postby Lightning McQueen » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:30 pm

Cohiba wrote:
Phantom Gossiper wrote:
Footy Chick wrote:
Phantom Gossiper wrote:Ingle Farm would in recent times indeed be among the better disciplined clubs. Show me stats that prove otherwise..
Sorry to pinpoint this kid Farmer folk, but WTF did he do to get 8 games?

:oops: :oops: Well doesn't that make me look stupid (more) now! Spoke to soon i guess :oops:


Don't be so hard on yourself PG...you've always looked stupid .... :)
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Re: Under 18 penalties.

Postby Robb_Stark » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:38 pm

ingle farm under 18s player got 3 red cards in the one game and he got of sorry
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Re: Under 18 penalties.

Postby Footy Chick » Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:16 pm

Robb_Stark wrote:ingle farm under 18s player got 3 red cards in the one game and he got of sorry


You can't get 3 red cards in one game, you'd be sent off for the rest of the game

Plus, you certainly wouldn't get off. There's an automatic suspension (1 or 2 games??) is that right?
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Re: Under 18 penalties.

Postby Robb_Stark » Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:30 pm

Footy Chick wrote:
Robb_Stark wrote:ingle farm under 18s player got 3 red cards in the one game and he got of sorry


You can't get 3 red cards in one game, you'd be sent off for the rest of the game

Plus, you certainly wouldn't get off. There's an automatic suspension (1 or 2 games??) is that right?



the same night you seen me down at thebbie there was a under 18s kid from ingle farm all 3 of them said he got 3 red cards the umpire also said that to me while sitting outside then when it was all said and done the kid was very happy with him self to have got of after getting 3 red cards and yes you can get unlimited amount of red cards

he recieved 2 red cards from the side lines yelling out abuse
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Re: Under 18 penalties.

Postby Lightning McQueen » Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:34 pm

Robb_Stark wrote:ingle farm under 18s player got 3 red cards in the one game and he got of sorry

Was he going for a flush?
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Re: Under 18 penalties.

Postby jo172 » Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:39 pm

Robb_Stark wrote:
Footy Chick wrote:
Robb_Stark wrote:ingle farm under 18s player got 3 red cards in the one game and he got of sorry


You can't get 3 red cards in one game, you'd be sent off for the rest of the game

Plus, you certainly wouldn't get off. There's an automatic suspension (1 or 2 games??) is that right?



the same night you seen me down at thebbie there was a under 18s kid from ingle farm all 3 of them said he got 3 red cards the umpire also said that to me while sitting outside then when it was all said and done the kid was very happy with him self to have got of after getting 3 red cards and yes you can get unlimited amount of red cards

he recieved 2 red cards from the side lines yelling out abuse


It's incredibly likely that you and FC are both right.

Different umpires seem to have very different understandings as to the rules regarding cards.
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Re: Under 18 penalties.

Postby Lightning McQueen » Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:44 pm

I heard of a Modbury 18's player also copping 2 red cards in the same game. 2 yellow's in the same game are an automatic 1 match penalty FC.
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Re: Under 18 penalties.

Postby Footy Chick » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:03 pm

the point of the thread is - are kids nowdays so unable to maintain civility and this is the cause of the rise in such incidents?

Or is it because their parents never said no to them? I know this comp is designed for those kids that aren't quite ready or willing to play senior footy - perhaps we take out the ability to play over age players, reduce the amount of teams so we have quality and a comp where like minded kids are playing together?

Does the league allow club mergers for 18's (like Unley/Mitcham) - again, this stops the over agers coming in and lets the kids play other kids, this way no club loses their potential senior players to another club?

I haven't put too much thought into the above, just throwing it out there...
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Re: Under 18 penalties.

Postby Cohiba » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:05 pm

Lightning McQueen wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:
Cohiba wrote:
Lightning McQueen wrote:
I'd be thinking high testosterone levels accompanied by the league trying to set precedents to the young lads that it's not the way to conduct themselves on the football field.
In a perfect world we should find alternative measures to curb the enthusiasm of the young lads and find alternative ways to punish them, perhaps whacking an orange shirt on them for some junior games so they can see how difficult it can be for umpires when faced with hostile matches.
Just a thought.


Could be a solution.......but depending on how Junior the Games are I can't recall what you might describe as a hostile Junior match albeit you would only need a rudimentary knowledge of the rules, would you achieve the objective?

Alternatively if rehabilitation means by umpiring Junior Games at the under 16's & under 18's level would the offender do that before after an umpires course?

And as Junior games are played on Sundays would he still be permitted to play on the Saturday's given the punishment is in fact lieu of suspension?

It was a bit open-ended and straight off the cuff, I umpire anywhere from Under 6's to A Grade country footy as well as women's state league, I do notice that the 15 to 16 year old age bracket are the ones that look like they could turn hostile at the drop of the hat, being played on a Friday night or late on a Sunday there's a tendency to attract spectators that will indulge in a beer or two whilst watching which in turn attracts more banter.
I still think that some suspension stand but also they should look at other forms of punishment.


Taking on board what you've said my point was more that I think giving an offender a taste of what it is like at your end of the sharp stick it could create bigger problems for a lad that in all probability would be woefully unprepared and lacking the knowledge to umpire indeed peers, ie U 16's and up without some timely and intense umpire training...

I feel whilst in theory it has merit but believe time and his preference to get back on the paddock asap.....that this would be difficult to implement.
Unfortunately the example set by more senior players does often influence the youngsters on behaviour patterns...good and bad...... Education at the Junior level is where IMO the problem should be tackled.
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Re: Under 18 penalties.

Postby Lightning McQueen » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:11 pm

Cohiba wrote:
Taking on board what you've said my point was more that I think giving an offender a taste of what it is like at your end of the sharp stick it could create bigger problems for a lad that in all probability would be woefully unprepared and lacking the knowledge to umpire indeed peers, ie U 16's and up without some timely and intense umpire training...

I feel whilst in theory it has merit but believe time and his preference to get back on the paddock asap.....that this would be difficult to implement.
Unfortunately the example set by more senior players does often influence the youngsters on behaviour patterns...good and bad...... Education at the Junior level is where IMO the problem should be tackled.


I guess I was more looking at it from a point of view where the offender would be under the guidance of a mentor.

Maybe the player behaviours haven't changed over time, but our allowance of what is acceptable has. I remember playing Under 17's back in the early 90's and it was hard football and very hostile at times.
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Re: Under 18 penalties.

Postby Cohiba » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:23 pm

Lightning McQueen wrote:
Cohiba wrote:
Taking on board what you've said my point was more that I think giving an offender a taste of what it is like at your end of the sharp stick it could create bigger problems for a lad that in all probability would be woefully unprepared and lacking the knowledge to umpire indeed peers, ie U 16's and up without some timely and intense umpire training...

I feel whilst in theory it has merit but believe time and his preference to get back on the paddock asap.....that this would be difficult to implement.
Unfortunately the example set by more senior players does often influence the youngsters on behaviour patterns...good and bad...... Education at the Junior level is where IMO the problem should be tackled.


I guess I was more looking at it from a point of view where the offender would be under the guidance of a mentor.

Maybe the player behaviours haven't changed over time, but our allowance of what is acceptable has. I remember playing Under 17's back in the early 90's and it was hard football and very hostile at times.


I think we agree educating the kids early in onfield discipline is were it should start....but if your suggestion was tested....the concept would have to come from the umpires collectively......After all they are the one that enforce the rules, are usually the prosecutors for transgressions, and they would certainly be the mentors. Perhaps pairing up the reporter [-X and reportee :evil: ...... ;)
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Re: Under 18 penalties.

Postby Dogwatcher » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:58 pm

Lightning McQueen wrote:
Cohiba wrote:
Taking on board what you've said my point was more that I think giving an offender a taste of what it is like at your end of the sharp stick it could create bigger problems for a lad that in all probability would be woefully unprepared and lacking the knowledge to umpire indeed peers, ie U 16's and up without some timely and intense umpire training...

I feel whilst in theory it has merit but believe time and his preference to get back on the paddock asap.....that this would be difficult to implement.
Unfortunately the example set by more senior players does often influence the youngsters on behaviour patterns...good and bad...... Education at the Junior level is where IMO the problem should be tackled.


I guess I was more looking at it from a point of view where the offender would be under the guidance of a mentor.

Maybe the player behaviours haven't changed over time, but our allowance of what is acceptable has. I remember playing Under 17's back in the early 90's and it was hard football and very hostile at times.


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Re: Under 18 penalties.

Postby Robb_Stark » Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:14 pm

i could sit here for days and talk about why todays young males act this way but im to lazy and who wants to read a big ass story

1.Parents let there kids get away with so much more these days
2.schools
3.government


these 3 things are the problem not one of them has any balls to stand up to punish the kids or wont

it will only get worse but the ferals and thats what they are will get done at the tribunal and hopefully get life bans no place for thugs in football
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