APPS New recruiting rules - Your thoughts?

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Re: APPS New recruiting rules - Your thoughts?

Postby Mr Beefy » Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:51 pm

jo172 wrote:
Trader wrote:
Jetters wrote:It does seem ridiculous that PAC for example have a number of '0 point 'juniors'' who are 0 points because they were on scholarship and effectively paid juniors. Obviously scholarships are not dished out to service the Old Col's side, but that's the result in reality.


I'm not sure that's the case.

I was speaking to a SPOC committee member last week and he said those that only did years 11 and 12 at the school are worth points still.


I think it depends on whether the person filling the form in has an attack of honesty or not :lol:

You're average ISSA season goes for 11 games.

So you would need to be at school for at least 3 years to qualify (depending on whether you start counting Knock Out games, which in itself opens a new can of worms.

Factor in that some of the older Year 12s will turn 18 during football season and a couple of their school games won't come within the ages of 13-18 (or whatever the number is now?).

It gets messier the more you look into it which is why I suspect Sports Pulse is the eventual answer (with the use of local interchange permits etc. to enable school kids to play for clubs on Sunday).

I'm also in favour of re-jigging the system (for all clubs) a little bit, i.e:

50 games between 13 and 18 - Zero Point
25 games between 13 and 18 - One Point

I keep coming back to people not having to be around a place very long to hit 25 games.

It was reduced to 20 games between the year in which they turn 13 and 18. More than likely to accommodate the the old scholars' shorter seasons....

I think your suggestion re 25 junior games being worth 1 point needs a bit of clarification, it means they are worth more than D1R player...
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Re: APPS New recruiting rules - Your thoughts?

Postby Jimmy_041 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:53 pm

scottroo wrote:We had 3 brothers looking at returning to the club there dad played 140 games and the sons played a combined total of 300 junior games until they were 14. They then moved out of the area. Neither of them played enough games 13-18 to qualify as juniors.

Who should be the zero pointers, these lads or the college boy on scholarship who the schools loose records show they played 25 games


The CFB set the rules and its always been from age 13 (for some reason which I don't know)
Wouldn't they qualify under the "Life Member" rule?
As I said before, if a school doesn't have proper records, the rule of thumb is 3 years minimum
AND, it's being rectified
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Re: APPS New recruiting rules - Your thoughts?

Postby jo172 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:01 pm

Mr Beefy wrote:
jo172 wrote:
Trader wrote:
Jetters wrote:It does seem ridiculous that PAC for example have a number of '0 point 'juniors'' who are 0 points because they were on scholarship and effectively paid juniors. Obviously scholarships are not dished out to service the Old Col's side, but that's the result in reality.


I'm not sure that's the case.

I was speaking to a SPOC committee member last week and he said those that only did years 11 and 12 at the school are worth points still.


I think it depends on whether the person filling the form in has an attack of honesty or not :lol:

You're average ISSA season goes for 11 games.

So you would need to be at school for at least 3 years to qualify (depending on whether you start counting Knock Out games, which in itself opens a new can of worms.

Factor in that some of the older Year 12s will turn 18 during football season and a couple of their school games won't come within the ages of 13-18 (or whatever the number is now?).

It gets messier the more you look into it which is why I suspect Sports Pulse is the eventual answer (with the use of local interchange permits etc. to enable school kids to play for clubs on Sunday).

I'm also in favour of re-jigging the system (for all clubs) a little bit, i.e:

50 games between 13 and 18 - Zero Point
25 games between 13 and 18 - One Point

I keep coming back to people not having to be around a place very long to hit 25 games.

It was reduced to 20 games between the year in which they turn 13 and 18. More than likely to accommodate the the old scholars' shorter seasons....

I think your suggestion re 25 junior games being worth 1 point needs a bit of clarification, it means they are worth more than D1R player...


As in they're only one point if you've got them from elsewhere where they would have been worth more than a point.

I.e if they play 25 games between 13 and 18, then go and play at SANFL level, then return they are worth 1 point rather than zero or four.
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Re: APPS New recruiting rules - Your thoughts?

Postby jo172 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:05 pm

The enrolled at school for 3 years is a bit of a crock. The equivalent would be "were a registered player at a club for 3 years". We all know that doesn't necessarily mean 25 games.
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Re: APPS New recruiting rules - Your thoughts?

Postby Jimmy_041 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:06 pm

jo172 wrote:
scottroo wrote:We had 3 brothers looking at returning to the club there dad played 140 games and the sons played a combined total of 300 junior games until they were 14. They then moved out of the area. Neither of them played enough games 13-18 to qualify as juniors.

Who should be the zero pointers, these lads or the college boy on scholarship who the schools loose records show they played 25 games


We had a bloke play 150 odd junior games, dad was the President of the Club, Mum Junior Co-Ordinator.

He was whisked away into SANFL/State U18 programs at around 14 and through them, and a series of injuries didn't manage to get 25 games between the right ages. Ended up playing state league football, 4 points thank you very much.

Whereas a bloke who goes to boarding school for a couple of years is worth zero points.

The system is clearly inadequate.


If the Dad is a life member - zero points
If not, and he only played 10 games in a year or two; then he doesn't qualify as a junior like any other kid anywhere
"goes to boarding school for a couple of years" is not worth zero

Rather disingenuous example there jo......
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Re: APPS New recruiting rules - Your thoughts?

Postby Jimmy_041 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:08 pm

jo172 wrote:The enrolled at school for 3 years is a bit of a crock. The equivalent would be "were a registered player at a club for 3 years". We all know that doesn't necessarily mean 25 games.


BTW its 20 games and the school records problem is being fixed

Haven't you got someone to defend from the gallows?
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Re: APPS New recruiting rules - Your thoughts?

Postby jo172 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:09 pm

Jimmy_041 wrote:
jo172 wrote:
scottroo wrote:We had 3 brothers looking at returning to the club there dad played 140 games and the sons played a combined total of 300 junior games until they were 14. They then moved out of the area. Neither of them played enough games 13-18 to qualify as juniors.

Who should be the zero pointers, these lads or the college boy on scholarship who the schools loose records show they played 25 games


We had a bloke play 150 odd junior games, dad was the President of the Club, Mum Junior Co-Ordinator.

He was whisked away into SANFL/State U18 programs at around 14 and through them, and a series of injuries didn't manage to get 25 games between the right ages. Ended up playing state league football, 4 points thank you very much.

Whereas a bloke who goes to boarding school for a couple of years is worth zero points.

The system is clearly inadequate.


If the Dad is a life member - zero points
If not, and he only played 10 games in a year or two; then he doesn't qualify as a junior like any other kid anywhere
"goes to boarding school for a couple of years" is not worth zero

Rather disingenuous example there jo......


I understand, I still maintain there should be another clause added to the system where if a junior has played another x games outside the ages of 13 to 18 there is still some benefit.

What number x is is obviously the subject of fair debate, but I wouldn't have thought too many would object to 100?
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Re: APPS New recruiting rules - Your thoughts?

Postby Jimmy_041 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:11 pm

jo172 wrote:
Jimmy_041 wrote:
jo172 wrote:
scottroo wrote:We had 3 brothers looking at returning to the club there dad played 140 games and the sons played a combined total of 300 junior games until they were 14. They then moved out of the area. Neither of them played enough games 13-18 to qualify as juniors.

Who should be the zero pointers, these lads or the college boy on scholarship who the schools loose records show they played 25 games


We had a bloke play 150 odd junior games, dad was the President of the Club, Mum Junior Co-Ordinator.

He was whisked away into SANFL/State U18 programs at around 14 and through them, and a series of injuries didn't manage to get 25 games between the right ages. Ended up playing state league football, 4 points thank you very much.

Whereas a bloke who goes to boarding school for a couple of years is worth zero points.

The system is clearly inadequate.


If the Dad is a life member - zero points
If not, and he only played 10 games in a year or two; then he doesn't qualify as a junior like any other kid anywhere
"goes to boarding school for a couple of years" is not worth zero

Rather disingenuous example there jo......


I understand, I still maintain there should be another clause added to the system where if a junior has played another x games outside the ages of 13 to 18 there is still some benefit.

What number x is is obviously the subject of fair debate, but I wouldn't have thought too many would object to 100?


Agreed; submit it to the CFL
I still pity your client in the cells :Hangman:
Last edited by Jimmy_041 on Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: APPS New recruiting rules - Your thoughts?

Postby jo172 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:11 pm

Jimmy_041 wrote:
jo172 wrote:The enrolled at school for 3 years is a bit of a crock. The equivalent would be "were a registered player at a club for 3 years". We all know that doesn't necessarily mean 25 games.


BTW its 20 games and the school records problem is being fixed

Haven't you got someone to defend from the gallows?


Is it seriously only 20 now?

Or has it always only been 20?

And nope, just making the world a better place by helping banks.
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Re: APPS New recruiting rules - Your thoughts?

Postby Jimmy_041 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:16 pm

Just saw it myself
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Re: APPS New recruiting rules - Your thoughts?

Postby jo172 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:17 pm

But am I imagining it used to be 25 or have I just confused it with the 25 games played zero point rule?

Because ****, have a decent run through NEMJFA finals and you'll get 20 games in one season!
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Re: APPS New recruiting rules - Your thoughts?

Postby Jimmy_041 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:20 pm

jo172 wrote:But am I imagining it used to be 25 or have I just confused it with the 25 games played zero point rule?

Because ****, have a decent run through NEMJFA finals and you'll get 20 games in one season!


Yep - used to be 25.
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Re: APPS New recruiting rules - Your thoughts?

Postby Jimmy_041 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:25 pm

:oops: :oops: :oops: Look at 6.7.1......
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Re: APPS New recruiting rules - Your thoughts?

Postby jo172 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:30 pm

Jimmy_041 wrote::oops: :oops: :oops: Look at 6.7.1......


haha.

6.7 as a whole is pretty weird. What's with the prejudice against C Grades etc. (acknowledging not many 25 game c grade players will ever be worth points)?
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Re: APPS New recruiting rules - Your thoughts?

Postby Jimmy_041 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:31 pm

jo172 wrote:
Jimmy_041 wrote::oops: :oops: :oops: Look at 6.7.1......


haha.

6.7 as a whole is pretty weird. What's with the prejudice against C Grades etc. (acknowledging not many 25 game c grade players will ever be worth points)?


and D, E & F graders 8)
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Re: APPS New recruiting rules - Your thoughts?

Postby jo172 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:39 pm

Here's one to set the cat amongst the pigeons.

Any college which doesn't allow it's students whether to elect whether to play College footy or Club footy not to get points concessions.

Would seem to level the playing field quite nicely since some colleges will effectively prevent their students electing to play elsewhere both in alternative to and in addition to the College. Can effectively prevent the players playing anywhere else from 16 - 18.
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Re: APPS New recruiting rules - Your thoughts?

Postby heater31 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:44 pm

jo172 wrote:Here's one to set the cat amongst the pigeons.

Any college which doesn't allow it's students whether to elect whether to play College footy or Club footy not to get points concessions.

Would seem to level the playing field quite nicely since some colleges will effectively prevent their students electing to play elsewhere both in alternative to and in addition to the College. Can effectively prevent the players playing anywhere else from 16 - 18.


Basically eliminates the Elite First XVIII schools as most kids that make those teams break into the side in year 11 and play 2 seasons.
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Re: APPS New recruiting rules - Your thoughts?

Postby jo172 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:10 pm

heater31 wrote:
jo172 wrote:Here's one to set the cat amongst the pigeons.

Any college which doesn't allow it's students whether to elect whether to play College footy or Club footy not to get points concessions.

Would seem to level the playing field quite nicely since some colleges will effectively prevent their students electing to play elsewhere both in alternative to and in addition to the College. Can effectively prevent the players playing anywhere else from 16 - 18.


Basically eliminates the Elite First XVIII schools as most kids that make those teams break into the side in year 11 and play 2 seasons.


That's played on Saturday though. Would have thought they could leave it up to the kids/parents as to how they spend their Sunday.

Regardless, let the kids choose. Given I'm lead to believe the Old Colls clubs all have huge involvement with the College Footy teams so I'm sure they'll all choose to play for the College anyway?
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Re: APPS New recruiting rules - Your thoughts?

Postby Grahaml » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:24 am

Because a college is going to suddenly let a kid pick so the old scholars sides can have a zero point player down the track? Shouldn't the system be about making things equal not trying to force one group of clubs to play on an uneven playing field? I'd much rather hear about how many players PAC, SPSOC etc have as potential zero point juniors compared to SNFC, PNUFC etc. Would be the ultimate judge of whether the system is right or wrong.
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Re: APPS New recruiting rules - Your thoughts?

Postby Mr Beefy » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:28 am

Grahaml wrote:Because a college is going to suddenly let a kid pick so the old scholars sides can have a zero point player down the track? Shouldn't the system be about making things equal not trying to force one group of clubs to play on an uneven playing field? I'd much rather hear about how many players PAC, SPSOC etc have as potential zero point juniors compared to SNFC, PNUFC etc. Would be the ultimate judge of whether the system is right or wrong.

Well have a look at the sanfl lists and work it out yourself
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