Anzac Day

Adelaide Footy League Talk

Re: Anzac Day

Postby no_remorse28 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:29 am

I agree with you Morell - I cant understand how Easter/Good Friday can be viewed as such a sacred time of the year.

I'm not religious, I dont believe in Jesus or Christianity so it holds no value (spritually) to me - which is why i eat meat and whatever, but why should i be hindered with closed shops or whatever because of a it?

I find it funny though that so many people are complaining about Halal meat and Muslin religion etc, aren't religious at all but also allow things like Good Friday to take place, and no one bats an eye lid - kind of the same thing if you ask me :?
User avatar
no_remorse28
Reserves
 
 
Posts: 994
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:54 pm
Has liked: 21 times
Been liked: 71 times
Grassroots Team: Para Hills

Re: Anzac Day

Postby Footy Chick » Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:47 am

So you don't mind working over the holiday then either?
Don't play games with a girl who can play 'em better...

Gatt_Weasel wrote:if they (Walkerville) dont win the flag ill run around the block of my street naked :) you can grab a chair and enjoy the view
User avatar
Footy Chick
Moderator
 
 
Posts: 26695
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:44 pm
Location: anywhere I want to be...
Has liked: 1737 times
Been liked: 2144 times

Re: Anzac Day

Postby no_remorse28 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:57 am

Footy Chick wrote:So you don't mind working over the holiday then either?

Dont mind the money :lol:
User avatar
no_remorse28
Reserves
 
 
Posts: 994
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:54 pm
Has liked: 21 times
Been liked: 71 times
Grassroots Team: Para Hills

Re: Anzac Day

Postby morell » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:12 am

Old Dog New Tricks wrote:
morell wrote:For example, it is in South Australia's liquor licensing act that you are unable to sell alcohol on Good Friday. Shops are unable to open
Are you sure about that or are you just grabbing pieces of the LL Act or shoppies for that matter to suit your self fulfilling argument

http://www.legislation.sa.gov.au/LZ/C/A/LIQUOR%20LICENSING%20ACT%201997/2004.03.24/1997.65.PDF

There are Good Friday restrictions on ALL of the different types of licenses:

Hotel licence
32. (1) A hotel licence authorises the licensee
(a) to sell liquor on the licensed premises for consumption on or off the licensed premises
on any day (except Sunday, Good Friday and Christmas Day) between 5 am and
midnight; and

Residential licence
33. (1) A residential licence
(b) if the conditions of the licence so provide—authorises the licensee to sell liquor on any
day except Good Friday and Christmas Day for consumption on the licensed premises

Restaurant licence
34. (1) A restaurant licence—
(c) if the conditions of the licence so provide—authorises the licensee to sell liquor on any
day except Good Friday and Christmas Day for consumption on the licensed premises by
persons

Club licence
36. (1) A club licence authorises the licensee—
(a) to sell liquor on the licensed premises for consumption on the licensed premises on any
day (except Sunday, Good Friday and Christmas Day)

Retail liquor merchant’s licence
37. (1) A retail liquor merchant’s licence authorises the licensee—
(a) to sell liquor on the licensed premises on any day except Good Friday and Christmas
Day

etc ...

In a modern western democracy, where the constitution is explicit in it's secular intention and separation of church and state is one of the core tenements, this is galling and reeks of some crusty old god botherers sneaking in their sky daddy where he/she/it isn't welcome.

But I'm not that fussed really, I'm not going to go marching in the streets about it, but it shits me that Good Friday is treated with this sort of over the top revered status, and ANZAC Day is not - including the notion of playing football on said days. I would prefer to play footy on Good Friday, and leave ANZAC Day the **** alone, as an idea.
User avatar
morell
Coach
 
 
Posts: 6382
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:56 pm
Has liked: 2017 times
Been liked: 1138 times
Grassroots Team: Mitchell Park

Re: Anzac Day

Postby jo172 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:16 am

morell wrote:
Old Dog New Tricks wrote:
morell wrote:For example, it is in South Australia's liquor licensing act that you are unable to sell alcohol on Good Friday. Shops are unable to open
Are you sure about that or are you just grabbing pieces of the LL Act or shoppies for that matter to suit your self fulfilling argument

http://www.legislation.sa.gov.au/LZ/C/A/LIQUOR%20LICENSING%20ACT%201997/2004.03.24/1997.65.PDF

There are Good Friday restrictions on ALL of the different types of licenses:

Hotel licence
32. (1) A hotel licence authorises the licensee
(a) to sell liquor on the licensed premises for consumption on or off the licensed premises
on any day (except Sunday, Good Friday and Christmas Day) between 5 am and
midnight; and

Residential licence
33. (1) A residential licence
(b) if the conditions of the licence so provide—authorises the licensee to sell liquor on any
day except Good Friday and Christmas Day for consumption on the licensed premises

Restaurant licence
34. (1) A restaurant licence—
(c) if the conditions of the licence so provide—authorises the licensee to sell liquor on any
day except Good Friday and Christmas Day for consumption on the licensed premises by
persons

Club licence
36. (1) A club licence authorises the licensee—
(a) to sell liquor on the licensed premises for consumption on the licensed premises on any
day (except Sunday, Good Friday and Christmas Day)

Retail liquor merchant’s licence
37. (1) A retail liquor merchant’s licence authorises the licensee—
(a) to sell liquor on the licensed premises on any day except Good Friday and Christmas
Day

etc ...

In a modern western democracy, where the constitution is explicit in it's secular intention and separation of church and state is one of the core tenements, this is galling and reeks of some crusty old god botherers sneaking in their sky daddy where he/she/it isn't welcome.

But I'm not that fussed really, I'm not going to go marching in the streets about it, but it shits me that Good Friday is treated with this sort of over the top revered status, and ANZAC Day is not - including the notion of playing football on said days. I would prefer to play footy on Good Friday, and leave ANZAC Day the **** alone, as an idea.


High Court disagrees fwiw

section 116 is a limit on Federal Power rather than designed to express any secular intention
jo172
League - Top 5
 
Posts: 3488
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 6:00 pm
Has liked: 1198 times
Been liked: 724 times

Re: Anzac Day

Postby morell » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:18 am

Footy Chick wrote:So you don't mind working over the holiday then either?

Considering the vast majority of Christian holidays are based on germanic pagan and/or shock horror ... arabic ... cultures, customs and traditions, one could argue that we could celebrate the divinity Ēostre or the arabic goddess of fertility Ishtar.

Public Holidays and Christian Theology are mutually exclusive. Or should be.
User avatar
morell
Coach
 
 
Posts: 6382
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:56 pm
Has liked: 2017 times
Been liked: 1138 times
Grassroots Team: Mitchell Park

Re: Anzac Day

Postby morell » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:25 am

jo172 wrote:
morell wrote:In a modern western democracy, where the constitution is explicit in it's secular intention and separation of church and state is one of the core tenements, this is galling and reeks of some crusty old god botherers sneaking in their sky daddy where he/she/it isn't welcome.

But I'm not that fussed really, I'm not going to go marching in the streets about it, but it shits me that Good Friday is treated with this sort of over the top revered status, and ANZAC Day is not - including the notion of playing football on said days. I would prefer to play footy on Good Friday, and leave ANZAC Day the **** alone, as an idea.


High Court disagrees fwiw

section 116 is a limit on Federal Power rather than designed to express any secular intention
This is an argument that is usually used because no one has successfully challenged the high courts by leveraging section 116 - the sole reason for that is because it's exceedingly difficult to actually define what is and is not "religion" in a court of law - which makes sense, you can't disprove belief. That doesn't mean it's not clear that it was intended on being implemented to ensure the previous histories religious malarkey isn't repeated:

For those playing at home:

Section 116 of the Constitution of Australia precludes the Commonwealth of Australia (i.e., the federal parliament) from making laws for establishing any religion, imposing any religious observance, or prohibiting the free exercise of any religion. Section 116 also provides that no religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or public trust under the Commonwealth. The product of a compromise in the pre-Federation constitutional conventions, Section 116 is based on similar provision


In fact, it could very much be argued, that our entire system of government, political process and western culture is based on separating religious thinking from law making.
User avatar
morell
Coach
 
 
Posts: 6382
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:56 pm
Has liked: 2017 times
Been liked: 1138 times
Grassroots Team: Mitchell Park

Re: Anzac Day

Postby Footy Chick » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:29 am

morell wrote:
In fact, it could very much be argued, that our entire system of government, political process and western culture is based on separating religious thinking from law making.


Legal Studies 101... Political, judicial, and the church, the law making triangle.

Thank you Westminster (not the football club) ;)
Don't play games with a girl who can play 'em better...

Gatt_Weasel wrote:if they (Walkerville) dont win the flag ill run around the block of my street naked :) you can grab a chair and enjoy the view
User avatar
Footy Chick
Moderator
 
 
Posts: 26695
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:44 pm
Location: anywhere I want to be...
Has liked: 1737 times
Been liked: 2144 times

Re: Anzac Day

Postby morell » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:32 am

Footy Chick wrote:
morell wrote:
In fact, it could very much be argued, that our entire system of government, political process and western culture is based on separating religious thinking from law making.


Legal Studies 101... Political, judicial, and the church, the law making triangle.

Thank you Westminster (not the football club) ;)
Sure, in 1650, this was spot on. :D

EDIT: But did you actually get taught this?
User avatar
morell
Coach
 
 
Posts: 6382
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:56 pm
Has liked: 2017 times
Been liked: 1138 times
Grassroots Team: Mitchell Park

Re: Anzac Day

Postby jo172 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:43 am

morell wrote:
jo172 wrote:
morell wrote:In a modern western democracy, where the constitution is explicit in it's secular intention and separation of church and state is one of the core tenements, this is galling and reeks of some crusty old god botherers sneaking in their sky daddy where he/she/it isn't welcome.

But I'm not that fussed really, I'm not going to go marching in the streets about it, but it shits me that Good Friday is treated with this sort of over the top revered status, and ANZAC Day is not - including the notion of playing football on said days. I would prefer to play footy on Good Friday, and leave ANZAC Day the **** alone, as an idea.


High Court disagrees fwiw

section 116 is a limit on Federal Power rather than designed to express any secular intention
This is an argument that is usually used because no one has successfully challenged the high courts by leveraging section 116 - the sole reason for that is because it's exceedingly difficult to actually define what is and is not "religion" in a court of law - which makes sense, you can't disprove belief. That doesn't mean it's not clear that it was intended on being implemented to ensure the previous histories religious malarkey isn't repeated:

For those playing at home:

Section 116 of the Constitution of Australia precludes the Commonwealth of Australia (i.e., the federal parliament) from making laws for establishing any religion, imposing any religious observance, or prohibiting the free exercise of any religion. Section 116 also provides that no religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or public trust under the Commonwealth. The product of a compromise in the pre-Federation constitutional conventions, Section 116 is based on similar provision


In fact, it could very much be argued, that our entire system of government, political process and western culture is based on separating religious thinking from law making.


This is incorrect, for a start section 116 has no application to the states (see Attorney-General (Vic); Ex rel Black v Commonwealth. There is nothing in the constitution prohibiting the South Australian parliament declaring Scientology the state religion tomorrow.

The same case above held that the intention of section 116 is to prevent the setting up of a state church. There is nothing to indicate a positive duty of secularism (aside from arguably that religion may not be required as a qualification for any office under the Commonwealth).

Also, the High Court has considered what a religion is in Church of the New Faith v Commisioner of Pay-roll Tax (Vic) where it considered whether Scientology was a religion for the purposes of Victorian Taxation exemptions.

The existence of these exemptions, along with the High Court permitting religious funding by the Government is evidence in itself that there's not a secular intent in our Constitution such as in the American Constitution.
jo172
League - Top 5
 
Posts: 3488
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 6:00 pm
Has liked: 1198 times
Been liked: 724 times

Re: Anzac Day

Postby Footy Chick » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:50 am

morell wrote:
Footy Chick wrote:
morell wrote:
In fact, it could very much be argued, that our entire system of government, political process and western culture is based on separating religious thinking from law making.


Legal Studies 101... Political, judicial, and the church, the law making triangle.

Thank you Westminster (not the football club) ;)
Sure, in 1650, this was spot on. :D

EDIT: But did you actually get taught this?


Something like that - give me a break, it was 25 years ago!
Don't play games with a girl who can play 'em better...

Gatt_Weasel wrote:if they (Walkerville) dont win the flag ill run around the block of my street naked :) you can grab a chair and enjoy the view
User avatar
Footy Chick
Moderator
 
 
Posts: 26695
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:44 pm
Location: anywhere I want to be...
Has liked: 1737 times
Been liked: 2144 times

Re: Anzac Day

Postby morell » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:06 am

jo172 wrote:This is incorrect, for a start section 116 has no application to the states (see Attorney-General (Vic); Ex rel Black v Commonwealth. There is nothing in the constitution prohibiting the South Australian parliament declaring Scientology the state religion tomorrow.

The same case above held that the intention of section 116 is to prevent the setting up of a state church. There is nothing to indicate a positive duty of secularism (aside from arguably that religion may not be required as a qualification for any office under the Commonwealth).

Also, the High Court has considered what a religion is in Church of the New Faith v Commisioner of Pay-roll Tax (Vic) where it considered whether Scientology was a religion for the purposes of Victorian Taxation exemptions.

The existence of these exemptions, along with the High Court permitting religious funding by the Government is evidence in itself that there's not a secular intent in our Constitution such as in the American Constitution.
Everyone now and then, very rarely, you get a post that makes you smile and nod your head with respect. This is one of those posts.

I agree and understand Section 116 has no authority over the states. And it's important it stays that way.

Interesting you brought up the DOGS case. You-see, this is where it gets curly and my tin foil hat starts to peek out. The Justice on that case that came up with that ruling would be Barwick - who was a born, raised and proud to be Cornish Methodist . So here we have a case, asking for a ruling on whether or not using public money to fund religious schools, which teach religious theocracy is unconstitutional (which if course it bloody well is) is being judged by a Protestant Christian! Thats a bit like going and asking Tex Walker if Jackson Trengove should receive a one week suspension the week before a showdown.

Church of the New Faith v Commissioner case was won by the Scientologists. This blows my mind!

I guess, my overall argument, is that High Court rulings, IMO, don't prove, or disprove, what the intention of Section 116 was originally written for.
User avatar
morell
Coach
 
 
Posts: 6382
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:56 pm
Has liked: 2017 times
Been liked: 1138 times
Grassroots Team: Mitchell Park

Re: Anzac Day

Postby Dogwatcher » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:11 am

Football thread? ;)
You're my only friend, and you don't even like me.
Dogwatcher
Coach
 
 
Posts: 29318
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:29 am
Location: The Bronx
Has liked: 1425 times
Been liked: 1152 times
Grassroots Team: Elizabeth

Re: Anzac Day

Postby morell » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:27 am

Hey I weaved a reference to Trengove and Walker in there!

jo, here is a great read on the seemingly contradictory rulings and "narrow interpretation" (Read: inherent bias) of the High Court in regards to s 116 from Gonzalo Puig, it explains it better than I could:

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/ ... D06EF8FC&_
User avatar
morell
Coach
 
 
Posts: 6382
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:56 pm
Has liked: 2017 times
Been liked: 1138 times
Grassroots Team: Mitchell Park

Re: Anzac Day

Postby Footy Chick » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:31 am

Dogwatcher wrote:Football thread? ;)


at least they made a thread for it - and it's not in the D5 thread.
Don't play games with a girl who can play 'em better...

Gatt_Weasel wrote:if they (Walkerville) dont win the flag ill run around the block of my street naked :) you can grab a chair and enjoy the view
User avatar
Footy Chick
Moderator
 
 
Posts: 26695
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:44 pm
Location: anywhere I want to be...
Has liked: 1737 times
Been liked: 2144 times

Re: Anzac Day

Postby no_remorse28 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:50 am

Too many big words for me - lost me ages ago.. :lol:
User avatar
no_remorse28
Reserves
 
 
Posts: 994
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:54 pm
Has liked: 21 times
Been liked: 71 times
Grassroots Team: Para Hills

Re: Anzac Day

Postby Old Dog New Tricks » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:02 pm

morell wrote:
Old Dog New Tricks wrote:
morell wrote:For example, it is in South Australia's liquor licensing act that you are unable to sell alcohol on Good Friday. Shops are unable to open
Are you sure about that or are you just grabbing pieces of the LL Act or shoppies for that matter to suit your self fulfilling argument

http://www.legislation.sa.gov.au/LZ/C/A/LIQUOR%20LICENSING%20ACT%201997/2004.03.24/1997.65.PDF

There are Good Friday restrictions on ALL of the different types of licenses:

Hotel licence
32. (1) A hotel licence authorises the licensee
(a) to sell liquor on the licensed premises for consumption on or off the licensed premises
on any day (except Sunday, Good Friday and Christmas Day) between 5 am and
midnight; and

Residential licence
33. (1) A residential licence
(b) if the conditions of the licence so provide—authorises the licensee to sell liquor on any
day except Good Friday and Christmas Day for consumption on the licensed premises

Restaurant licence
34. (1) A restaurant licence—
(c) if the conditions of the licence so provide—authorises the licensee to sell liquor on any
day except Good Friday and Christmas Day for consumption on the licensed premises by
persons

Club licence
36. (1) A club licence authorises the licensee—
(a) to sell liquor on the licensed premises for consumption on the licensed premises on any
day (except Sunday, Good Friday and Christmas Day)

Retail liquor merchant’s licence
37. (1) A retail liquor merchant’s licence authorises the licensee—
(a) to sell liquor on the licensed premises on any day except Good Friday and Christmas
Day

etc ...

In a modern western democracy, where the constitution is explicit in it's secular intention and separation of church and state is one of the core tenements, this is galling and reeks of some crusty old god botherers sneaking in their sky daddy where he/she/it isn't welcome.

But I'm not that fussed really, I'm not going to go marching in the streets about it, but it shits me that Good Friday is treated with this sort of over the top revered status, and ANZAC Day is not - including the notion of playing football on said days. I would prefer to play footy on Good Friday, and leave ANZAC Day the **** alone, as an idea.
So, in some circumstances, liquor can be sold and not universally banned as you've suggested.
Old Dog New Tricks
Rookie
 
 
Posts: 141
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:57 pm
Has liked: 1 time
Been liked: 6 times

Re: Anzac Day

Postby morell » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:35 pm

Image
User avatar
morell
Coach
 
 
Posts: 6382
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:56 pm
Has liked: 2017 times
Been liked: 1138 times
Grassroots Team: Mitchell Park

Re: Anzac Day

Postby Old Dog New Tricks » Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:33 pm

morell wrote:Image
As I asked, so you can sell liquor on Good Friday.

Overview

In South Australia, a hotel licence authorises the sale of liquor for consumption on and off the licensed premises under Section 32 of the Liquor Licensing Act 1997.

The licensee can apply to the Liquor and Gambling Commissioner for exemptions from these requirements.

•At any time in a designated dining area to a diner for consumption with or ancillary to a meal provided by the licensee in that area (including Good Friday and Christmas Day)
•At any time in a designated reception area to a person attending a reception for consumption in that area (including Good Friday and Christmas Day).
Old Dog New Tricks
Rookie
 
 
Posts: 141
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:57 pm
Has liked: 1 time
Been liked: 6 times

Re: Anzac Day

Postby morell » Thu Apr 16, 2015 5:15 pm

So you have to apply for an exemption. Because it's banned. Which is what I said

I'm not quite sure of the point you're trying to make.
User avatar
morell
Coach
 
 
Posts: 6382
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:56 pm
Has liked: 2017 times
Been liked: 1138 times
Grassroots Team: Mitchell Park

PreviousNext

Board index   Football  Other Footy Leagues  Adelaide Footy League

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests

Around the place

Competitions   SANFL Official Site | Country Footy SA | Southern Football League | VFL Footy
Club Forums   Snouts Louts | The Roost | Redlegs Forum |