CH9AFL Division 2 2016

[Jimmy_041]

So the scholarship players are a problem but no one can tell me how scholarship players played for PAOC 11 days ago
Sounds like a problem contrived on no fact at all.
By the way, you are correct, Castree was a scholarship student and if you check the team sheet from a couple of months ago, he's worth points as he only went for 2 years.

[marbles]

So the scholarship players are a problem but no one can tell me how scholarship players played for PAOC 11 days ago
Sounds like a problem contrived on no fact at all.
By the way, you are correct, Castree was a scholarship student and if you check the team sheet from a couple of months ago, he's worth points as he only went for 2 years.

How many zero pointer old collegians were there?

[Yank Man]

Heard rumour the guy who coached Paskeville to Premiership recently been appointed as new coach at SMOSH?

Also see that Tom Roberts who coached Mitchell Park A's in 2016 has got the job as B grade coach. Great appointment.

[human_torpedo]

The annual Jo172 bee in bonnet regarding Old Scholars sides having access to Old Scholars of the school

The only issue that anyone should have with it is the clubs that double hat with juniors and a school link - The SMOSH and Unley's of the world

Whats the answer Jo? Old Scholar sides with no juniors must recruit directly from the year 12's who played at the school that year before they play at any other senior club, otherwise EVERY new player will be points.. Bearing in mind that most (if not all) of these kids already have a junior club they are playing at as well. Its not easy to be up against clubs that kids have played all their junior footy at, hence why it takes a few years before players start thinking about coming back to the Old Scholars sides to potentially play with mates, or whatever the reason. If you make all those players 3 points, clubs wont be sustainable..

PAOC, SPOC and SHOC are all strong footballing schools, but if you think the scholarships are given to blokes who they think will bolster their Old Scholar sides as 0 pointers in the future, then you are all deluded..

[jo172]

I'm somewhat confounded that this is all directed at me. I wish I was half the footballer @birds of prey is.

For what it's worth I'd be amazed if a vast, vast majority of Old Collegians players wouldn't be zero points regardless of where they went to school as for most it would be the first senior club they register for. I suspect that Trinity faces fairly different circumstances to metropolitan clubs/colleges. The ties between gifted juniors and the Gawler clubs, along with Trinity being a lower division club is a fairly different situation to the powerful colleges.

Agree that SMOSH and Unley having their cake and eating it too is a strange situation (particularly SMOSH given St Michaels is a fairly bigger football school than Mercedes).

[jo172]

And as to why sporting scholarships are given out I've never really understood, but I accept that it's something outsiders may never understand.

I also accept that sporting scholarships are completely independent of the Old Scholars sides.

It's almost as if the College's entire Football activities are entirely independent of the Old Scholars set up

[heater31]

And as to why sporting scholarships are given out I've never really understood, but I accept that it's something outsiders may never understand.

I also accept that sporting scholarships are completely independent of the Old Scholars sides.

It's almost as if the College's entire Football activities are entirely independent of the Old Scholars set up

Swings and roundabouts for every SPOC, PAOC & SHOC that has a school dishing out scholarships like Freddo Frogs there are the CBOC, Pulteney, TOS & St Paul's of the world who are forever destined to float between divisions 4 to 6 forever.

[jo172]

And as to why sporting scholarships are given out I've never really understood, but I accept that it's something outsiders may never understand.

I also accept that sporting scholarships are completely independent of the Old Scholars sides.

It's almost as if the College's entire Football activities are entirely independent of the Old Scholars set up

Swings and roundabouts for every SPOC, PAOC & SHOC that has a school dishing out scholarships like Freddo Frogs there are the CBOC, Pulteney, TOS & St Paul's of the world who are forever destined to float between divisions 4 to 6 forever.

It's not surprising that the strength of the Old Colls side is heavily correlated to the College's strength as a football school (perhaps Scotch and Pembroke being somewhat anomalies).

The real strength of SPOC, PAOC, SHOC and ROCS comes not from the 3-5 scholarships the college's give out as 99% of these blokes will end up in the AFL, SANFL or Country systems, but from having such large numbers of 16-18 year olds playing football at a reasonable level, together.

Take this year where Flinders Park should be absolutely commended for being able to field two Under 18s sides. This is an amazing effort given Under 18s is notoriously a massive drop-off age group.

Compare this to the elite colleges which often have fourth and fifth XVIIIs and you can see that they have a veritable production line of competent footballers being produced year after year.

Even in a world where Old Collegians sides weren't entitled to points discounts for old scholars I'd be amazed if clubs like ROCS, PAOC and SHOC would drop very far. A vast, vast majority of the sides would be made up of zero pointers straight from school. I suspect they'd be in a similar position to what Adelaide Uni is in now. Still competitive in D1.

Given it would seem they're a tad less squeamish about amateurism I think you'd find ROCS and PAOC in particular would generally outperform Uni and would continue to play finals and compete for D1 Flags.

[Jimmy_041]

And as to why sporting scholarships are given out I've never really understood, but I accept that it's something outsiders may never understand.

I also accept that sporting scholarships are completely independent of the Old Scholars sides.

It's almost as if the College's entire Football activities are entirely independent of the Old Scholars set up

Another statement made without fact
70% of school football coaches are from PAOCFC
We actively promote it as it helps the club, players & potential coaches
It's not 100% because we don't control it and there are other people who want to coach school kids

[jo172]

And as to why sporting scholarships are given out I've never really understood, but I accept that it's something outsiders may never understand.

I also accept that sporting scholarships are completely independent of the Old Scholars sides.

It's almost as if the College's entire Football activities are entirely independent of the Old Scholars set up

Another statement made without fact
70% of school football coaches are from PAOCFC
We actively promote it as it helps the club, players & potential coaches
It's not 100% because we don't control it and there are other people who want to coach school kids

Are they from PAOCFC or PAC or both?

Are they paid? If so, who pays them?

EDIT - as a philosophical question this actually extends beyond the old scholars sides.

What point of involvement should a club have in its juniors before they are linked for points/whatever else purposes?

I've been thinking about this since Rosewater at one point during the year had its juniors come out and say that its seniors had nothing to do with its juniors, and again vice versa when the juniors got in trouble?

Similarly, what about Edwardstown during the period of the rebel Edwardstown Junior Football Club?

Should there be a degree of integration necessary or is playing in the same colours/at the same venue sufficient?

If there is a degree of integration required who judges? What's the standard? Is it all too hard?

Should we just abolish points because there will always be anomalies, or do we accept that it's an imperfect system as is, but is doing a reasonably good job?

[human_torpedo]

FYI Jo172, I was only having a light hearted dig because we had this exact discussion around this time last year..

I think you hit the nail on the head, the system was bought in to stop massive influx and exodus of players year to year at clubs. It is near on impossible to have an adequate APPS which appeases all clubs, given the variety of clubs set ups within the league.. Nothing is ever bullet proof and unfortunately some clubs are better off than others in this instance.. And Trinity certainly isn't one of those clubs better off, that's for sure.. But to target Old Scholar sides because of access to players seems a bit of a stretch IMO..

[jo172]

FYI Jo172, I was only having a light hearted dig because we had this exact discussion around this time last year..

I think you hit the nail on the head, the system was bought in to stop massive influx and exodus of players year to year at clubs. It is near on impossible to have an adequate APPS which appeases all clubs, given the variety of clubs set ups within the league.. Nothing is ever bullet proof and unfortunately some clubs are better off than others in this instance.. And Trinity certainly isn't one of those clubs better off, that's for sure.. But to target Old Scholar sides because of access to players seems a bit of a stretch IMO..

Agree.

The irony of this is that since the introduction of APPS this seems to have only gotten worse with seemingly one club getting the experience per year (knock on wood no one yet for 2017).

Hopefully TPPS can try and limit this phenomena.

[watchdog]

Heard rumour the guy who coached Paskeville to Premiership recently been appointed as new coach at SMOSH?

Also see that Tom Roberts who coached Mitchell Park A's in 2016 has got the job as B grade coach. Great appointment.

Why didn't Mitchell Park fight hard to keep him then??

[Jimmy_041]

And as to why sporting scholarships are given out I've never really understood, but I accept that it's something outsiders may never understand.

I also accept that sporting scholarships are completely independent of the Old Scholars sides.

It's almost as if the College's entire Football activities are entirely independent of the Old Scholars set up

Another statement made without fact
70% of school football coaches are from PAOCFC
We actively promote it as it helps the club, players & potential coaches
It's not 100% because we don't control it and there are other people who want to coach school kids

Are they from PAOCFC or PAC or both?

Are they paid? If so, who pays them?

EDIT - as a philosophical question this actually extends beyond the old scholars sides.

What point of involvement should a club have in its juniors before they are linked for points/whatever else purposes?

I've been thinking about this since Rosewater at one point during the year had its juniors come out and say that its seniors had nothing to do with its juniors, and again vice versa when the juniors got in trouble?

Similarly, what about Edwardstown during the period of the rebel Edwardstown Junior Football Club?

Should there be a degree of integration necessary or is playing in the same colours/at the same venue sufficient?

If there is a degree of integration required who judges? What's the standard? Is it all too hard?

Should we just abolish points because there will always be anomalies, or do we accept that it's an imperfect system as is, but is doing a reasonably good job?

Both - they are old scholars and play for the old scholars and encouraged by PAOCFC to coach, and they are not paid. Interesting question there. Not everyone is motivated by money or you and I wouldn't volunteer and do the hours we do

[jo172]

Continuing my off-season thought bubble, now that we have TPPS, and if we accept TPPS works, do we still need APPS?

[human_torpedo]

Continuing my off-season thought bubble, now that we have TPPS, and if we accept TPPS works, do we still need APPS?

Im waiting to see the verdicts and potential penalties for the first lot of clubs caught breaching TPPS before I am sold on it 'working'..

I like that APPS doesn't allow a group of mercenaries go from club to club, year to year chasing coin and flags.. APPS prevents that as they would all be 3 pointers and pretty much max out any clubs points.. If only TPPS was in place, I think its easier to exploit and allow this to still happen in an underhanded way.. If that makes sense

[Footy Chick]

I wonder if the Vic Ammos have TPPS and APPS...

http://www.triplem.com.au/adelaide/sport/afl/news/2016/10/brent-harveys-future-is-90-per-cent-confirmed/

[Mr Beefy]

I wonder if the Vic Ammos have TPPS and APPS...

http://www.triplem.com.au/adelaide/sport/afl/news/2016/10/brent-harveys-future-is-90-per-cent-confirmed/

Not sure what the link has to do with VAFA...but they have a version of APPS and the Vic Ammos have a salary cap of $0, other metro leagues have both a version of APPS and a salary cap.

[Footy Chick]

I don't know which bloody league their in, Vic ammos was a generalisation My point is, is that if they do, someones points and payments are potentially about to go through the roof

[YouthofToday]

I don't know which bloody league their in, Vic ammos was a generalisation My point is, is that if they do, someones points and payments are potentially about to go through the roof

If I remember correctly then his junior side which is Preston RSL had an affiliation with North Heidelberg (Northern FL) because PRSL didn't have a senior team and Nth didn't have juniors! Does that make sense? This may work in Nth Heidelberg's favour.