AAA - Punishment or free flag?

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AAA - Punishment or free flag?

Postby Footy Chick » Tue May 15, 2018 9:54 pm

Down the Hill asked a good question about this on another thread.

Just wondering everyone’s thoughts on whether AAA should mean a club gets relegated as a result. It’s not just the team that gets relegated who gets punished but, for example, a team like Modbury who really should’ve gone down to D2 to have a spell after a tough year in 2017.



Last year Rosewater got relegated because of it and the year before Pooraka did (and then made a GF)

Salisbury West stayed in D4 instead of being promoted to D3 after the 2005 GF but started on -6 points (and still won a flag)



As an example should Eastern Park, if found guilty, get relegated and possibly have a premiership gifted to them in a lower grade and forcing a struggling club to stay up

OR

Should they stay up and have to work their way out of the red on the premiership ladder right from the start. (Which punishes a Grand Finalist from the lower grade)


Discuss.
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Re: AAA - Punishment or free flag?

Postby morell » Tue May 15, 2018 10:03 pm

Should be made to play D1 and get smacked every week.
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Re: AAA - Punishment or free flag?

Postby JesseWhite » Tue May 15, 2018 10:15 pm

I think it needs to be treated on a case by case basis. If relegating the team on AAA leaves a struggling club in that division, then the option should be open to the struggling club to be relegated over the team on AAA. I would certainly prefer if teams started the year on negative points in most cases without relegation as we currently see how often these clubs dominate the lower division. Put simply, if your good enough to start the year on negative points and go on to win the flag then its well earned, whereas if your relegated and do it easy then not so much.
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Re: AAA - Punishment or free flag?

Postby The Bedge » Tue May 15, 2018 10:26 pm

Punishment.. if they manage to recruit/retain enough players to win a flag the following year in a lower div then good luck to them, but doesn’t change the fact the club is a couple years behind where they’d like to be.

From potential finalist and opportunity for promotion one year to playing in a lower div the next don’t know how anyone could see that as a positive for their club.
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Re: AAA - Punishment or free flag?

Postby LaughingKookaburra » Tue May 15, 2018 10:43 pm

If you finish 8th due to the circumstances mentioned no one is forcing you to stay up.... You can apply to the league no doubt and get an exemption. There would be a club every year providing the decision is made early enough that would jump at the chance to go up or remain in that div. Clubs that finish higher than 8th in recent years have gone down divisions due to players leaving. Each case on its merits.

You do need to be careful though, how many clubs finish bottom in dire straights and slide down 2-3 divisions pretty quick. Sometimes it’s better to remain in the higher div and win 2 games than go down a div and win 5-6 games for the same outcome.
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Re: AAA - Punishment or free flag?

Postby ramming23 » Tue May 15, 2018 11:52 pm

Very difficult one, but even if Eastern Park are deducted Premiership points and potentially into a negative because of the incident, they're still a fair chance IMO to avoid relegation. If it happens towards the pointy end of the season and they're mid table like SN were last year and it forces relegation they're again, no guarantee as you can see this year even after assembling an almighty side, to win a flag. I think if you asked Greenacres at the end of last year if they'd rather be in Division 5 getting spanked by 30 goals every week or Division 6 getting spanked every week by 20-30 goals they'd probably prefer to stay up because if they can manage to eventually turn it around the following year, they are doing it from Division 6 rather than Division 7. If it wasn't for Rosewater last year, Kenilworth would be playing in Division 6 and I bet they are thankful they aren't as they are sitting one game from top spot in Division 5.

Or do you let them lose their points no matter when it happens throughout the year which would most likely stop them from playing finals, they don't get relegated and then as mentioned above as well, start the following year in a negative? So many loopholes in both theories but I'm sure you could make it work fairly somehow for all involved.
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Re: AAA - Punishment or free flag?

Postby The Bedge » Wed May 16, 2018 9:31 am

What if then points only impacted finals that season/next season?

What if you were deducted points, but ‘kept your wins’ are the two sides who finished with the least amount of ‘wins were relegated, the top 5 are the sides with the most ‘points’, and if you finish the season on negative points, you begin the next season on negative points.

Then there is no incentive to go down, the “worst” two sides go down accordingly and with negative points rolling over there is reason not to give up on your season otherwise you’re well behind the 8-ball next season.
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Re: AAA - Punishment or free flag?

Postby Lightning McQueen » Wed May 16, 2018 9:42 am

The Bedge wrote:What if then points only impacted finals that season/next season?

What if you were deducted points, but ‘kept your wins’ are the two sides who finished with the least amount of ‘wins were relegated, the top 5 are the sides with the most ‘points’, and if you finish the season on negative points, you begin the next season on negative points.

Then there is no incentive to go down, the “worst” two sides go down accordingly and with negative points rolling over there is reason not to give up on your season otherwise you’re well behind the 8-ball next season.


That's my take on it, the promotion/relegation system works well as most clubs are placed about where they are at, we don't see many floggings in the top 4 or 5 divisions, I'd sooner keep it that way and teams not face relegation for point loss, fair enough on missing finals though.
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Re: AAA - Punishment or free flag?

Postby The Ash Man » Wed May 16, 2018 11:01 am

Wouldn't Modbury have had the option to go down if they saw fit?
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Re: AAA - Punishment or free flag?

Postby jo172 » Wed May 16, 2018 11:17 am

The Ash Man wrote:Wouldn't Modbury have had the option to go down if they saw fit?


I believe a certain undefeated D2 side which was in D1 last year was happy to stay up if Modbury wanted to go down.
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Re: AAA - Punishment or free flag?

Postby Minion Master » Wed May 16, 2018 12:06 pm

it's an unjust reward, stay in same division, start on negative points, pull your heads in and make the changes required if they are really serious about totally changing their behaviour
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Re: AAA - Punishment or free flag?

Postby Look Good In Leather » Wed May 16, 2018 1:31 pm

Only one flag really counts and that is the Division 1 one, all the rest are just consolation prizes along the way to get to that point. Winning a flag after relegation is not a reward, unless mediocrity is your goal.
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Re: AAA - Punishment or free flag?

Postby Lightning McQueen » Wed May 16, 2018 1:34 pm

Look Good In Leather wrote:Only one flag really counts and that is the Division 1 one, all the rest are just consolation prizes along the way to get to that point. Winning a flag after relegation is not a reward, unless mediocrity is your goal.


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: AAA - Punishment or free flag?

Postby Q. » Wed May 16, 2018 2:02 pm

Look Good In Leather wrote:Only one flag really counts and that is the Division 1 one, all the rest are just consolation prizes along the way to get to that point. Winning a flag after relegation is not a reward, unless mediocrity is your goal.


You are mistaken, only the AFL premiership counts and anyone playing footy below that is a flog
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Re: AAA - Punishment or free flag?

Postby jo172 » Wed May 16, 2018 2:18 pm

Q. wrote:
Look Good In Leather wrote:Only one flag really counts and that is the Division 1 one, all the rest are just consolation prizes along the way to get to that point. Winning a flag after relegation is not a reward, unless mediocrity is your goal.


You are mistaken, only the AFL premiership counts and anyone playing footy below that is a flog


Nietzsche would be fairly certain none of this counts.
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Re: AAA - Punishment or free flag?

Postby Courtney Fish » Wed May 16, 2018 3:30 pm

Look Good In Leather wrote:Only one flag really counts and that is the Division 1 one, all the rest are just consolation prizes along the way to get to that point. Winning a flag after relegation is not a reward, unless mediocrity is your goal.


What is the expected timeframe when you guys conquer the SANFL on your way to winning your first AFL flag? Or are you happy to stay and try and win a "consolation" flag in what's left of the "mediocre" SFL.
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Re: AAA - Punishment or free flag?

Postby The Bedge » Wed May 16, 2018 3:42 pm

Out of curiosity, when was the last time Christies Beach won a Mens A grade consolation premiership in the SFL?
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Re: AAA - Punishment or free flag?

Postby Look Good In Leather » Wed May 16, 2018 4:15 pm

Courtney Fish wrote:
Look Good In Leather wrote:Only one flag really counts and that is the Division 1 one, all the rest are just consolation prizes along the way to get to that point. Winning a flag after relegation is not a reward, unless mediocrity is your goal.


What is the expected timeframe when you guys conquer the SANFL on your way to winning your first AFL flag? Or are you happy to stay and try and win a "consolation" flag in what's left of the "mediocre" SFL.
Where there is no promotion pathway, this is irrelevant. I am not aware of the SANFL or AFL opening their doors to new clubs.

Surely though, a club would strive to be in the best possible division within their league, else what is the point? Proving you are the 51st best team, or 21st, etc?

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Re: AAA - Punishment or free flag?

Postby Look Good In Leather » Wed May 16, 2018 4:16 pm

The Bedge wrote:Out of curiosity, when was the last time Christies Beach won a Mens A grade consolation premiership in the SFL?
We have never been relegated and then won a lower division premiership as a result, so never.

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Re: AAA - Punishment or free flag?

Postby Down the Hill » Wed May 16, 2018 4:23 pm

Look Good In Leather wrote:Only one flag really counts and that is the Division 1 one, all the rest are just consolation prizes along the way to get to that point. Winning a flag after relegation is not a reward, unless mediocrity is your goal.


And this coming from a club that celebrated a B grade flag two years ago like it had won a World Cup. An A grade premiership is an A grade premiership and most clubs covet them as much as the next one or the last one.

And Bedge - they won their last A grade flag in 1994 with the highest paid team in the SFL and then 5 or 6 gun players walked due to a variety of reasons which may or may not have included outstanding player payments. LGIL will try and sugar coat it but the CBFC took about 20 years to recover from what happened at the end of 1994. I won't knock the SFL because the top 4 or 5 teams each year during our time in the SFL would not have been out of place in the top AdFL divisions. Despite too many easy games for the top clubs during the season, all finals wins and premierships were well earned.
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