Muttiah Muralitharan

[Mr_Willy]

Warne without a shadow of a doubt...

I like Murali... nice bloke... But he is an out and out chucker... Don't give a stuff what anyone says..... He would've got 800 outs in MLB with a similar action! The only reason he got to keep playing was because they changed the rules....

Shane Warne is a legend.... The drugs thing was the biggest joke in the history of cricket and I don't think anyone will remember it in 30 years time...

Murali got so many wickets against poor batting line ups and also with no one else around him to steal wickets from him.. Shane Warne took over 700 wickets playing with some of the best cricketers to step foot on a oval....

Not even a debate in my eyes....

[Johno6]

Shake Warne.... is he that afghan spin bowler?

shane warne was the reason i started bowling leg spin, absolutely loved him in a hetrosexual way... sometimes more than that.
like willy said they changed the rules to suit murali./... imagined if he got banned...

but gotta give it to murali... anyone that can take 80 odd wickets against his own national side.... must have some ability

[Mr_Willy]

Shake Warne.... is he that afghan spin bowler?
shane warne was the reason i started bowling leg spin, absolutely loved him in a hetrosexual way... sometimes more than that.
like willy said they changed the rules to suit murali./... imagined if he got banned...

but gotta give it to murali... anyone that can take 80 odd wickets against his own national side.... must have some ability

[am Bays]

If he was an aussie he'd be a national hero.

Ask Ian McKeff and Greame Franke (Qld shield cricketer)?? Both chuckers and both chucked out of the game by Australia....

I agree he didn't bend his arm to bowl quicker he, like all Doosra bowlers (Here's looking at you Mr Singh), bent his elbow so he could get his wrist into to position so he could bowl it. Yes his double jointed wrists allowed him to bowl it better but he still had to straighen his arm to bowl it.

I had no problems with his orthodox offie and his toppie (to an extent) but it was his Doosra that was the illegal ball.

ASk yourself as a batsman who would you rather face a bowler who you know can move the ball three ways or two ways?? The fact he was allowed to keep his illegal Doosra in his kit bag it increased the doubt in the batters which was a major reason why he was able to get 800 test wickets. If he wasn't allowed to bowl outside the laws of cricket he would still be a bloody good test match bowler but he would most likely be at 400 odd wickets not 800.

[Lightning McQueen]

If he was an aussie he'd be a national hero.

Ask Ian McKeff and Greame Franke (Qld shield cricketer)?? Both chuckers and both chucked out of the game by Australia....

I agree he didn't bend his arm to bowl quicker he, like all Doosra bowlers (Here's looking at you Mr Singh), bent his elbow so he could get his wrist into to position so he could bowl it. Yes his double jointed wrists allowed him to bowl it better but he still had to straighen his arm to bowl it.

I had no problems with his orthodox offie and his toppie (to an extent) but it was his Doosra that was the illegal ball.

ASk yourself as a batsman who would you rather face a bowler who you know can move the ball three ways or two ways?? The fact he was allowed to keep his illegal Doosra in his kit bag it increased the doubt in the batters which was a major reason why he was able to get 800 test wickets. If he wasn't allowed to bowl outside the laws of cricket he would still be a bloody good test match bowler but he would most likely be at 400 odd wickets not 800.

I will next time I catch up with them.

[brod]

Muttiah Muralitharan marked his return after a five-month break with a spell of 3-0-15-2, but it wasn't enough to deliver victory for Wellington against Auckland at Colin Maiden Park. Operating with the new ball, Muralitharan didn't take too long to get into the act in a game that was reduced to 12-overs-a-side due to rain. He had Bradley Cachopa dismissed in his second over,

[cripple]

If he was an aussie he'd be a national hero.

Ask Ian McKeff and Greame Franke (Qld shield cricketer)?? Both chuckers and both chucked out of the game by Australia....

Don't forget about Eddie Gilbert One of the best that Bradman said he faced. Too much boomerang throwing to aid a whippy wrist by all reports. Just because Australian officials do something, doesn't mean it is/was right.

[Jim05]

Only had to watch the big bash last night to see two of the biggest chuckers going around.
Aaron Heal is a shocker and Johann Botha is the biggest chucker ever, he makes Murali look like a Saint. Why these guys are not thrown out is beyond me

[am Bays]

Only had to watch the big bash last night to see two of the biggest chuckers going around.
Aaron Heal is a shocker and Johann Botha is the biggest chucker ever, he makes Murali look like a Saint. Why these guys are not thrown out is beyond me

Well Jim05 you're smart enough the answer to that one, once the ICC dropped its strides and bent over so the sub-continent cartel could give it a good one (sans lube) in 2004 to allow Murili to chuck with impunity, the damn wall burst to allow the other chuckers to play their trade. It is/was a fair dinkum disgrace.

[Dogmatic]

Only had to watch the big bash last night to see two of the biggest chuckers going around.
Aaron Heal is a shocker and Johann Botha is the biggest chucker ever, he makes Murali look like a Saint. Why these guys are not thrown out is beyond me

I thought I was watching Adelaide Bite.

[Jim05]

Only had to watch the big bash last night to see two of the biggest chuckers going around.
Aaron Heal is a shocker and Johann Botha is the biggest chucker ever, he makes Murali look like a Saint. Why these guys are not thrown out is beyond me

Well Jim05 you're smart enough the answer to that one, once the ICC dropped its strides and bent over so the sub-continent cartel could give it a good one (sans lube) in 2004 to allow Murili to chuck with impunity, the damn wall burst to allow the other chuckers to play their trade. It is/was a fair dinkum disgrace.

Yes I know that is the reason. We always bend over and cop it from the sub continent. The DRS is another system that works well but is not operating in this system because India wont allow it. Cant wait to Tendulkar gets a dodgy LBW on 99 and then watch the whining pricks sook. Surely the home side has the right to choose DRS or not

[CoverKing]

Only had to watch the big bash last night to see two of the biggest chuckers going around.
Aaron Heal is a shocker and Johann Botha is the biggest chucker ever, he makes Murali look like a Saint. Why these guys are not thrown out is beyond me

Well Jim05 you're smart enough the answer to that one, once the ICC dropped its strides and bent over so the sub-continent cartel could give it a good one (sans lube) in 2004 to allow Murili to chuck with impunity, the damn wall burst to allow the other chuckers to play their trade. It is/was a fair dinkum disgrace.

Yes I know that is the reason. We always bend over and cop it from the sub continent. The DRS is another system that works well but is not operating in this system because India wont allow it. Cant wait to Tendulkar gets a dodgy LBW on 99 and then watch the whining pricks sook. Surely the home side has the right to choose DRS or not

Well that was my understanding when Aus toured India, but obviously the rules have changed! Bloody joke

[story of my life]

Only had to watch the big bash last night to see two of the biggest chuckers going around.
Aaron Heal is a shocker and Johann Botha is the biggest chucker ever, he makes Murali look like a Saint. Why these guys are not thrown out is beyond me

Well Jim05 you're smart enough the answer to that one, once the ICC dropped its strides and bent over so the sub-continent cartel could give it a good one (sans lube) in 2004 to allow Murili to chuck with impunity, the damn wall burst to allow the other chuckers to play their trade. It is/was a fair dinkum disgrace.

Yes I know that is the reason. We always bend over and cop it from the sub continent. The DRS is another system that works well but is not operating in this system because India wont allow it. Cant wait to Tendulkar gets a dodgy LBW on 99 and then watch the whining pricks sook. Surely the home side has the right to choose DRS or not

That always used to be the case but the BCCI realised that they would have to play under this system when touring, and as they run thge ICC they got the rule changed so now both teams have to agree. another example of the ICC not wanting to risk the wrath of the BCCI

[whufc]

The laws on chucking didnt change because Murali was too good they changed so Murali could play.

His a chucker without question, laws were changed so millions of asians werent upset.

When thinking of the great bowlers of all time i think about the Warnes, Hadlees, West Indian guys etc etc.

Murali in my mind is the best pitcher out of himself, Johan Botha, Ian Meckiff, Geoff Griffin and Groover

[Hondo]

I think the rule changed partly to remove the confusion that some Umpires were having in whether technically to call him or not. This left every game he played in open to tensions and uncertaintly because some umpires wanted to call him and some didn't.

Personally I have never been that passionate about Murali's action and never been convinced one way or the other if he chucks. If it takes a super slo mo to prove it then I think it must be a very fine line either way.

I don't care whether his doosra was a technical "chuck" because of a couple of centimetres in his elbow. A chucker to me is a baseball pitcher and I thought the law was there to stop lethal baseball style deliveries from fast bowlers. A doosra spin delivery to me is entertaining and if the pedantry of the law meant that the batsman were spared a spin delivery they couldn't play then I say for the sake of a few centimetres, make the change.

It is not as though the change has opened the floodgates on these types of bowlers is it? Had we now been faced with 20 spin bowlers from the sub continent all bowling previously illegal doosras then I think the conspiracy theorists would have a point.

[Hondo]

On the thread topic I'd still have Warnie ahead of Murali.

[whufc]

I think the rule changed partly to remove the confusion that some Umpires were having in whether technically to call him or not. This left every game he played in open to tensions and uncertaintly because some umpires wanted to call him and some didn't.

Personally I have never been that passionate about Murali's action and never been convinced one way or the other if he chucks. If it takes a super slo mo to prove it then I think it must be a very fine line either way.

I don't care whether his doosra was a technical "chuck" because of a couple of centimetres in his elbow. A chucker to me is a baseball pitcher and I thought the law was there to stop lethal baseball style deliveries from fast bowlers. A doosra spin delivery to me is entertaining and if the pedantry of the law meant that the batsman were spared a spin delivery they couldn't play then I say for the sake of a few centimetres, make the change.

It is not as though the change has opened the floodgates on these types of bowlers is it? Had we now been faced with 20 spin bowlers from the sub continent all bowling previously illegal doosras then I think the conspiracy theorists would have a point.

And what happens now if a spinner comes along and his bowling brilliantly but bends the rules by a couple of centimeter to bowl some new fan dangle ball, do we just change the rule another couple of centimeters. Where does the line stop?

[Hondo]

It's a fair question whufc. I'd like to think it stops where it is. It's a batsman's game. Geez, a bowler is 1mm over the line and a batsman is given not out because of a no-ball. Fair enough because a rule is a rule but so much favours the batsman already that to stamp out the doosra bowlers because of a few centimetres bend in the arm to me just makes it even easier for the batsman.

I loved watching Murali bowl because I loved the contest of elite batsman (like they did with Warnie) facing bowlers that really test them. I loved the competition. It's completely different to watching a Doherty or a Beer or a Hauritz trundling mostly innocuous offies that the elite batsman laugh at most of time. I want to see a real contest. If 15 degrees was all it took to let me watch Murali really test the elite batsman then, as I said, make the change.

If a West Indian fast bowler comes along chucking at 180km and risking people's lives then jump all over him.

Rules have been changing to accomodate the evolution of the playing styles and types of players ever since the game started. West Indians will complain that mimimum over rates were a change deliiberately designed to curb their 4 fast bowling attack. Did we jump up and down then? I think most of the protest at the time about the West Indies tactics came out of the MCC, not the BCCI.

[mal]

MurALi the best chucker I have ever seen
Warne the best spinner I have ever seen

If Warne bowled on the decks MurALi did his record MIGHT have been better
If MurALi bowled on the decks Warne did his record WOULD have been worse

MurALi v Australia
1992............56.25 [SL]
1995-96.......116.00[AU]
1999............23.26 [SL]
2003-2004.....23.17 [SL]
2005-2006.....31.40[AU]
2007-2008....100.00[AU]

On his home land MurALi had 2 very good series on spinning decks
In 2 of the 3 visits to Australia he was well and truly conquered
Hope these stats are correct ???

MurALis overall averages

AU 36.06
IN 32.61
PA 25.46
SA 22.22
NZ 21.53
EG 20.06
WI 19.62
ZI 16.86
BA 13.37

His record is great against all nations, except AU and to a lesser extent the spin killers IN
But there is a damning stat
89 wkts v BA
87 wkts v ZI
176 wickets taken against minnows
Aint his fault, but it has bolstered down his average

Warneys averages
IN 47.18
WI 29.95
BA 27.27
SL 25.54
NZ 24.37
SA 24.16
EG 23.25
ZI 22.83
PA 20.17

Warney took 16 wkts against the minnows, the Banagas did play him well !
Indias spin killers gave Warney a fair bit of curry

WARNE 708 WKTS ...25.41
MurALi 795 WKTS ....22.71

I have not included the 1CC world eleven stats games, they dont count in my stats

As Rod Rooster has told me averages can be misleading
Those stats suggest MurALi is the better bowler
But he aint

[whufc]

It's a fair question whufc. I'd like to think it stops where it is. It's a batsman's game. Geez, a bowler is 1mm over the line and a batsman is given not out because of a no-ball. Fair enough because a rule is a rule but so much favours the batsman already that to stamp out the doosra bowlers because of a few centimetres bend in the arm to me just makes it even easier for the batsman.

I loved watching Murali bowl because I loved the contest of elite batsman (like they did with Warnie) facing bowlers that really test them. I loved the competition. It's completely different to watching a Doherty or a Beer or a Hauritz trundling mostly innocuous offies that the elite batsman laugh at most of time. I want to see a real contest. If 15 degrees was all it took to let me watch Murali really test the elite batsman then, as I said, make the change.

If a West Indian fast bowler comes along chucking at 180km and risking people's lives then jump all over him.

Rules have been changing to accomodate the evolution of the playing styles and types of players ever since the game started. West Indians will complain that mimimum over rates were a change deliiberately designed to curb their 4 fast bowling attack. Did we jump up and down then? I think most of the protest at the time about the West Indies tactics came out of the MCC, not the BCCI.

Agree with most of it.

While it is a batsmens game i think the bowling action is something that makes cricket special and not just any joe blow can chuck a ball down at a batsmen.

To make the contest harder for the batsmen and give the bowlers a chance maybe the ICC should be producing laws/restrictions/monitoring etc etc to prevent curators all around the world producing roads for every test match. Give the bowlers a bit in the pitch and then we dont have to worry about allowing chuckers to play just for the sake of it.

For me i would rather watch a test match that only last 3 days but provides a challenge for batsmen than watching a test finish in the morning of the 5th day after both sides have made 300+ plus a couple times each. Thats why the most enthralling test inning i have watched in the last 5 or so years was the recent Michael Clarke innings in South Africa.