SA v WA 18/12-21/12

[Not Scared]

I must admit, I don't like it when there are too many of these sporting declarations, but I don't think we need to start changing rules to combat them. It's up to the captains to declare at a time that gives them a 70+% chance of winning. Ladder positions often come into it as well, and the tactics can get quite interesting.

WA's is too generous in my opinion and SA's was much too generous against the Vics last week. Of course, juicing up the pitches a bit would also be helpful! We have seen in the test matches that there are too many flat tracks at the moment.

Looking forward to getting up to the Bradman Stand tomorrow for a rare day at the cricket! Lets hope the Redbacks can get over the line!

[locky801]

SA. 0/24 after 12.5

Harris 2* off of 35

Smith 22* off of 42

[locky801]

S.A. 0/30

Smith 26*

Harris 4*

[locky801]

I must admit, I don't like it when there are too many of these sporting declarations, but I don't think we need to start changing rules to combat them. It's up to the captains to declare at a time that gives them a 70+% chance of winning. Ladder positions often come into it as well, and the tactics can get quite interesting.

WA's is too generous in my opinion and SA's was much too generous against the Vics last week. Of course, juicing up the pitches a bit would also be helpful! We have seen in the test matches that there are too many flat tracks at the moment.

Looking forward to getting up to the Bradman Stand tomorrow for a rare day at the cricket! Lets hope the Redbacks can get over the line!

Well summed up, agree entirely

[locky801]

Stumps

S.A. 0/30

Smith 26*

Harris 4*

Require 320 tomorrow, pitch looks great, one would think all we have to do is keep our heads, basically 100 a session, dont need any silly shots or throwing wickets away, looking forward to tomorrow

[lion heart]

Good start by the redbacks i might have to head out for a look tomorrow.

[Adelaide Hawk]

cheers locky

Very fair declaration from W.A. the wicket still has plenty of runs in it. If Redbacks dont lose more than 1 wicket tonight they will be in the box seat.

And if SA wins, once again we will see a team get outplayed for 3 days and then get the chocolates.

Why are you so negative to these declarations? The captains are trying get the maximum points for their team not playing for boring draws.

Your mentality is so English, No, we won't go for the win as we already have 2 points from this game.

Why? Simple. I believe in order to gain maximum points (or 1st Innings points), you should play better than the opposition. This is not necessarily the case with a lot of these declarations. A team gets outplayed for 3 days and wins 6 points, the team that dominated and makes the running gets 2. Strange concept.

Would it make sense for your football team to forfeit a huge advantage at 3/4 time, just so we can avoid a boring final quarter? Of course not, so why do people find it necessary in cricket?

I also feel the Sheffield Shield used to be the best breeding ground of Test cricketers in the world. Judging from the decline in our Test team of late, I'm wondering if this is still the case. We are turning it into a farce where the final 2 days play simply cannot be taken into account by Test selectors.

If I were a budding Test hopeful, I would be very annoyed with continually having to risk my wicket in chase of declarations. And these "boring draws" of which you speak ... boring for who? The handful of people who actually attend these matches? If thousands flocked to these matches I may agree, but they don't.

And may I add, that if my mentality is "English", then yours is very much a limited overs one, which doesn't necessariliy make your opinion correct.

[NFC]

Went along to the cricket today. Beautiful weather, pretty decent crowd.

Staggered with Manou's declaration. Why so soon? Klinger looking superb and Christian, as we all know, can hit the ball and make quick runs. If he was going to declare at lunch, why not tell them to hit out in the 30 mins before lunch? I would've told them a 1/2 hr before lunch and 30-60 mins after lunch to go the tonk and see if you can get the deficit to 70/80 odd.

Another great knock from Klinger.

WA, George bowled a ripping opening spell, great accuracy. Got the rather average Towers out caugh behind and then Robinson who was looking VERY good was caught behind by Manou, honestly it looked like a grassed catch to me. Batsman was standing around, umpire gave it out, umpires then met up and gave him out again. Looked suspect.

George then staggeringly didn't bowl again, 8 overs 2/13. Bailey, the hack, bowled rubbish. Was tonked by Marsh. Got 3 balls to keep low, anhd had one very, very strong appeal against Marsh which was turned down. From about 65 onwards, Marsh went mental and batted beautiful, hitting straight sixes and fours galore. Majestic knock. Onya Shaun!

SA's innings off to a slow and steady start, Harris 4 off 39, painful stuff. Good declaration from Voges (batted ok himself) and tomorrow is set for a nice finish.

[mal]

Im batting with Adelaide Hawk
WA have totally dominated this game for most of the 3days
Today I witnessed why the best cricket breeding cricket comp could be on the verge of disintigrating
WA 401
SA 6/249 DEC
KLINGER 109 NOT OUT and again he is declared on

The Bayman /The Don/ and I witnessed a circus
WA 2/37
ROBINSON out to a controversial catch or non catch by Manou
Manou took a superb catch low down one handed on his left glove[Haddin + Ronchi might have let thru 4 runs ]
Robinson stood his ground, some of the SA players remonstrated, the crowd was vocal
Rivetting stuff WA losing 2 quick wickets to Peter George 2/14[8]
This was a real battle between George , Haberfield and the shaky WA batters
Then the circus
Shortly after OBREIN AND BAILEY bowled in tandem, they bowled most of the innings
They bowled to ridicolus fields, with only one man most times patrolling the boundary
BAILEY was massacred by Shaun Marsh
BAILEY 0/90[20]
OB 0/61 [13.4]
MANOU bowled both spinners despite Marsh killing them
It was a circus, cheap runs to build up a run rate for the inevitable declaration

Peter George did not bowl another spell
HABERFIELD a very good 50 over bowler only had 4 overs
MARSH 108*[140] played an innings of splendour, but it was a xmas present
VOGES 58*[127]

WA 2/198 DEC
and 12/599 for the match

SA now have been set 350 off about 106 overs
SA 0/30[15] AT STUMPS
SMITH 26*[51]
HARRIS 4*[39]

Equation TOMorrow
SA need 321 off about 96 overs
What a target after being beaten for 3 days

SOFT cricket,

[NFC]

Good summary mal, agreed.

1. Manou's declaration, while inviting a result, wasn't the best timing and as I said, should've gone the tonl beforehand.

2. Didn't think Manou caught it myself, would've been interesting if it were an ODD.

3. Couldn't believe the spinners were persisted with from both ends whilst both were getting the treatment. Marsh was loving it.

4. Good declaration by Voges. Still good for batting so they will need a whole day to get 10 wickets. Voges made the right move. SA, with Harris and Klinger, unlikely to score quickly enough to get the total.

[spell_check]

Gotta make them first. If so, it makes up for the last match. Although that sort of "bowling to set up for the declaration" is something I thought only happened in English County Cricket?

[locky801]

Im batting with Adelaide Hawk
Then the circus
Shortly after OBREIN AND BAILEY bowled in tandem, they bowled most of the innings
They bowled to ridicolus fields, with only one man most times patrolling the boundary
BAILEY was massacred by Shaun Marsh
BAILEY 0/90[20]
OB 0/61 [13.4]
MANOU bowled both spinners despite Marsh killing them
It was a circus, cheap runs to build up a run rate for the inevitable declaration

Peter George did not bowl another spell
HABERFIELD a very good 50 over bowler only had 4 overs

So Manou has basically gone against all the ethics and could it be classed as bringing the game into disrepute, same as a few other captains around the country this season. I can see their point but throwing up donkey drops continually so a side can set a target is not in the spirit of the game IMHO.


Call me old fasion but that just my POV

[mal]

MARSH went from 50-100 with 1 man on the legside fence
He just kept hitting the spinners over thier heads for a few sixes and fours
No fielder was positioned at long on or off
BAILEY might have lost some confidence taking 0/90
Ironically when MARSH got to a 100 then several fielders were placed on the boundaries

This is not competitive cricket it is contemptable manufactured cricket
LOCKY is right its not in the spirit

Pity it finishes TOMorrow
This finish would be good to watch on a Sunday

I wonder how WA cricket supporters are feeling
Bit like SA supporters last week v VI

WA have a good attack
NOFFKE/MCGOFFIN/HOGAN are good bowlers
HEAL is an emerging spinner, and a rough hope of playing ODIs
KNOWLES is a support bowler
Ther will be no easy runs


SA are marginal favourites

[heater31]

cheers locky

Very fair declaration from W.A. the wicket still has plenty of runs in it. If Redbacks dont lose more than 1 wicket tonight they will be in the box seat.

And if SA wins, once again we will see a team get outplayed for 3 days and then get the chocolates.

Why are you so negative to these declarations? The captains are trying get the maximum points for their team not playing for boring draws.

Your mentality is so English, No, we won't go for the win as we already have 2 points from this game.

Why? Simple. I believe in order to gain maximum points (or 1st Innings points), you should play better than the opposition. This is not necessarily the case with a lot of these declarations. A team gets outplayed for 3 days and wins 6 points, the team that dominated and makes the running gets 2. Strange concept.

Would it make sense for your football team to forfeit a huge advantage at 3/4 time, just so we can avoid a boring final quarter? Of course not, so why do people find it necessary in cricket?

I also feel the Sheffield Shield used to be the best breeding ground of Test cricketers in the world. Judging from the decline in our Test team of late, I'm wondering if this is still the case. We are turning it into a farce where the final 2 days play simply cannot be taken into account by Test selectors.

If I were a budding Test hopeful, I would be very annoyed with continually having to risk my wicket in chase of declarations. And these "boring draws" of which you speak ... boring for who? The handful of people who actually attend these matches? If thousands flocked to these matches I may agree, but they don't.

And may I add, that if my mentality is "English", then yours is very much a limited overs one, which doesn't necessariliy make your opinion correct.

I play & watch cricket to see a contest and eventually a winner. If I was playing these sorts of games and had 1 win and nine draws it would be a waste of a season's cricket not just for the 200 people who attend but the players watching some body play for themselves

Cricket is about taking risks. Take the right ones at the right moment and you will win the game.

[redandblack]

The last time I looked at the rules, I thought declarations were not only legal, but part of the game. Declarations are a judgement call between risk and reward. A one-sided declaration leads to a boring draw - boring doesn't matter, but a draw means 2 points. 9 games at 2 points = 18 points and an early finish to the season.

Manou's declaration in Melbourne set the Vics 380 in the last innings. Hardly an easy target and Victoria were good enough to win and SA weren't good enough to bowl them out.

As for playing better cricket for 3 days and losing to a side you're on top of, welcome to sport.

More correctly, you've played better in the first innings and they've played better in the second innings. First class cricket is decided over two innings. A win on the first innings without an outright is a draw.

All power to Manou's declarations. I'm a traditionalist when it comes to cricket, but declarations have been part of the game since it started. AH, sit happily on your 2 points a game for 5 or 6 games and watch two other teams fight out the final.

[Killa]

Should be like county cricket in England, which is based on First Inninings total, Wickets taken in innings and the match result. Here is the points system

Points system
The county championship works on a points system, the winner being the team with most points in the first division. The points are awarded as follows:

Win: 14 points + bonus points.
Tie: 7 points + bonus points.
Draw: 4 points + bonus points.
Loss: Bonus points.

Bonus points are collected for batting and bowling. These points can only be obtained from the first 130 overs of each team's first innings. The bonus points are retained regardless of the outcome of the match.

Batting
200-249 runs: 1 point
250-299 runs: 2 points
300-349 runs: 3 points
350-399 runs: 4 points
400+ runs: 5 points
Bowling
3-5 wickets taken: 1 point
6-8 wickets taken: 2 points
9-10 wickets taken: 3 points

[mal]

We used a bonus point system about 30 years ago in the SS cricket
It was mooted at the time because middle order batsman were having to slog to get a bonus point
At times they would need 8 of the last over, and would take risks in getting it
Bowlers would bowl defensively instead of concentrating 100% on getting a wicket at times

I didnt mind bonus points as a spectator, but it was at times detrimental to the players

I think the bonus points in O/Day Franger Cups is a brilliant innovation
Perhaps a bonus point with a sMALl benefit in SS could be thought about
Perhaps in non outright games the more dominant team gets an extra point[how to incorporate that ???}

The English system dosent seem to prepare Test Cricketers adequately
The SS system , when the decks were less batter friendly, players were fresher, and less injuries has worked well in preparing Test Cricketers
EG have struggled to provide good fast bowlers, one reason is that they bowl line and length bowlers to curb the opposition run rates


At the moment SS cricket is resembling EG cricket
And no surprise we are listed 4 in the world thesedays

[Adelaide Hawk]

The last time I looked at the rules, I thought declarations were not only legal, but part of the game. Declarations are a judgement call between risk and reward. A one-sided declaration leads to a boring draw - boring doesn't matter, but a draw means 2 points. 9 games at 2 points = 18 points and an early finish to the season.

Manou's declaration in Melbourne set the Vics 380 in the last innings. Hardly an easy target and Victoria were good enough to win and SA weren't good enough to bowl them out.

As for playing better cricket for 3 days and losing to a side you're on top of, welcome to sport.

More correctly, you've played better in the first innings and they've played better in the second innings. First class cricket is decided over two innings. A win on the first innings without an outright is a draw.

All power to Manou's declarations. I'm a traditionalist when it comes to cricket, but declarations have been part of the game since it started. AH, sit happily on your 2 points a game for 5 or 6 games and watch two other teams fight out the final.

I'd really like you to point out where I have stated declarations are illegal. Don't take my words and just twist them around for the sake of argument. I'm talking simply about preparation of players for higher honours, and teams having to earn points rather than have them handed to them.

What's the point of winning the Sheffield Shield unless you have proven you're the best team over that season? Contrived results are NOT good for cricket even though they entertain 100 people in the outer.

Bowling spinners to unprotected fields just to encourage the opposition to rack up enough runs to set a target is not my idea of competitive cricket.

[Not Scared]

I'll make my point again, it's up to the captains to not make a mockery of it. The rules at the moment aren't so bad. They encourage a result, and they are uncomplicated. You have to remember it's not just the few hundred people there as well, there are thousands keeping up with scores online and on the radio and although they are not watching live they still like to see interesting matches.

Sometimes ladder positions will dictate that a side needs to take a risk to get the points, sometimes they will dictate that a side grinds out a boring draw just to ensure the other team doesn't get points, and I think we need to accept that. The way the ladder is at the moment the 6 points is very valuable to try and sneak into that top two, but I think some captains are certainly getting it wrong and giving their opposition way too much of a chance at the 6 points. Sometimes it's necessary to give the opposition a sniff, but that's what you should be giving them when you have dominated the game, not an even money chance.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to today's play, and hopefully it is our turn to nab some points, as the Vics did to us last week.

[mal]

Everybody is right so far
The captains have gotta at times contrive or set targets get 6 points by almost any means
The more you try the more opportunities to get the points, I agree with what skippers need to do

However the point HAWK/MAL are trying to point out is that its not real cricket, it becomes fabricated almost barstaadised cricket
Watching 2 spinners bowling on a veritable unspinning deck, appearing as flat as hell, with a ring field and seeing oppostion batters hit boundarys at will was not cricket
I watched it unfold it was contrived garbage cricket
SA WERE NOT TRYING 100% TO DISMISS THE BATSMAN
Manou was LEAKING runs, presenting runs on a platter by setting audacious fields
It was not competitive cricket
For people like HAWK/MAL it was degrading
We both are from the old school, play cricket hard, to the best of your ability, and try to win
To see the charitable cricket yesterday was offsetting insulting and brought the game into disrepute
Thats not my isolated opinion, it was the opinion of several spectators

A real problem is the flat wickets
We need some more give for the quickies, and all curators must be put on notice to produce decks to take some turn to allow spinners to become more competitive
This way if the decks are an even contest between bat and ball, sides who are good enough get to 450 and declare can feel confident about winning the game, instead of being picked off at times

The Adelaide Oval deck is far too flat the last 2 seasons, and IF skippers didnt declare just about every game would have been 2 pointers