SA v WA 18/12-21/12

[Hondo]

On the debate about whether these sporting declarations are compromising the standard of the players, I don't think batting out first innings battles is any more beneficial compared to a competitive 4th innings run chase. In fact, I think that would be of more benefit in preparing the players compared to sitting on the backsides for 2 days (some of them).

It's easy to make too much of these declarations taking a traditionalist view of things, but I think the overall winner at the end of the season will be the best team regardless of the sporting declarations. The cream always rises to the top one way or another.

As R&B said, both the last 2 games we simply haven't been good enough. This time our batting let us down, last time it was our 2nd innings bowling.

What these declarations are doing is keeping us all interested for the 4 full days and keeping the players at (hopefully) their competitive edge through the 4 full days.

[westcoastpanther]

This season

Manou 5 hits = 90 runs
Ludeman 1 hit = 62 runs

[Adelaide Hawk]

Typical Cosgrove, another start, another innings thrown away.

Same old story
When he makes a 100 the critics have RSI
When he gets out in the arc of 30-50 we get a post like this

Mal, he made 100 in a 50 over game which means nothing. The other 100 he scored, he was 37 overnight. He got two starts and together it made 100 .. then he got out.

I cannot believe people are so accepting of the fact the man is grossly unfit for 1st class cricket. I'm not talking about running around, jumping for catches, etc, it has been well documented over the years that the fitter a person becomes, the quicker his mind can react. He is more alert. What happens with Cosgrove is he gets mentally tired, and makes poor shot selections. He is virtually incapable of batting beyond a session, and that is just not good enough.

[Adelaide Hawk]

Why can't we coast to an easy win like everyone else would have....

I tried to explain this after the Melbourne debacle, but nobody could see my point. Cricket is a mind game, it's a confidence game. Most of cricket is played between the ears.

Confidence is everything in cricket. You don't lose ability overnight, but you can lose confidence. So difficult to gain, so easy to lose.

Had we returned home with our 2 points and held the current shield holders and top team Victoria to a fat zero on their own dung heap, the boys would have been jumping out of their skins. Instead we returned home with our tails between our legs. I said then it would take some time for the guys to recover from that pasting, and on evidence of today's game, it appears correct.

Sometimes .... not all the time ... but sometimes, it is better to take the 2 points, and I couldn't give a toss about exciting finishes, etc, I care about the development of our local lads as cricketers.

And before people come out swinging thoughtlessly, as is what usually happens on this board, at least try to consider what I've said, even if you don't agree with it.

[mal]

Congratulations to WA made all the running, took all the risks and got the 6 points
The best team in this match happened to win the game
Unlike SA the best side who were beaten against VI

Both games contrived
SA 2 POINTS
OPPOSITION 12 POINTS

And I think back to about 27 hours ago, when Manou gifted WA those easy runs
The side that tried for about 100% of this game beat the side that tried for about 70% of this game


Declarations set up wonderful exciting SS games
But for the development of the players and preperation to become Test cricketers, prob not
The fair and squarness of the superior team is questionable


Next game is a blinkfesting bashathon v WA in Perth

PS
Some people on SAFOOTY during the ashes actually posted that MANOU should be the AU keeper and not HADDIN
Excuse me
Perhaps we could put those posts in BEST JOKES


MANOU is a good SS keeper, thats all

[Not Scared]

Well, one of my rare appearances at a Shield game as I now live in Berri, but I must say, not much has changed. A classical Redbacks batting collapse, and a classical G. Manou shot. When will he learn that he is a good striker of the ball playing normal cricket shots and does not have to come 4 steps down the wicket and play a cross bat slog to make runs! And that's the skipper. Klinger was a bit unlucky after a massive wait for the ball change (drinks should have been taken since it was 2:40 by the time we got going again), and then the new ball did a bit more than the other ball ever looked like doing.

As Adelaide Hawk said, between the ears. Guess what though, I'll be back next chance I get, and when I get there I'll talk up how we are a good chance of winning. Go the Redbacks!

[redandblack]

Cossie starting to up the ante a little

Cosgrove 42*
Klinger 60*

The equation right now is SA need 177 to win off of a minimum 51 overs @ 3.47 rpo

With 8 wickets in hand we should do it easily.

Now we all know that wycbloods is the kiss of death, but he was right in theory. All the talk in the world about 2 points and declarations doesn't alter the fact that SA were in the box seat for 6 points.

They just weren't good enough.

AH, I don't disagree with most of what you say. I've had as much experience playing the game as most on here, I'm a cricket traditionalist and generally agree with you about confidence, etc, but the Victorian saga didn't stop us being in a winning position in this game and our shortcomings have nothing to do with declarations.

I think that SA have improved greatly from the ''debacle every game'' days, but they still have a way to go.

[catchisthecry]

http://www.youtube.com/user/WestEndRedb ... Pk1fYE8-BY

Check out this video of todays play.
Manou has a bit of a crack at the top order - which is justified, especially the part about them needing to be more attacking.
Manou is batting himself at 6 - therefore he is playing as a batsman, check out his shot on this video

Cooper has to play - attacking batsman at the top of the order, Borgas needs to bat more like he did at The 'G the other night..
Not convinced Manou and O'Brien at 6,7 is strong enough.

[rod_rooster]

PS
Some people on SAFOOTY during the ashes actually posted that MANOU should be the AU keeper and not HADDIN
Excuse me
Perhaps we could put those posts in BEST JOKES


MANOU is a good SS keeper, thats all

FFS Mal, perhaps those people actually took the time to look at the main job of the wicket keeper and that is to keep. Manou is miles ahead of Haddin as a keeper it's just that Haddin can bat a fair bit better. It's like you talking up Ronchi. He is just a dirty slogger who sometimes comes off (more often than not he doesn't) but most importantly his keeping is sh*thouse at best. Davis Boon was a better keeper than Ronchi is.

PS - I don't think that Manou should be picked aheead of Haddin but if i was picking the best keeper he would be ahead of him along with Paine, Hartly and Wade.

[Hondo]

FWIW I agree with AH's comments about the points system

It's not quite how he said it but I'd be happy with only 4 points for the outright win if the team has lost on the 1st innings

Leave the 6 points for 1st innings win + outright win

[spell_check]

Or what about what I've thought for quite some time (but I'm sure there's a reason it's not this at the moment)

8 points: 1st innings points plus outright win
7 points: Tie on first innings plus outright win
6 points: Outright win only; or tie and 1st innings points
4 points: Tie only
2 points: 1st innings points only
1 point: Tie on first innings only

[jackpot jim]

For S.A. to be a Force again, Manou CANT be captain and CANT bat in the top 6.

[Lightning McQueen]

Make it 8. All over......

Why can't we coast to an easy win like everyone else would have....

Is there any pressure on Manou for his spot? I think there is, Ludeman looked good. Manou has not contributed with the bat at all this year.

agreed, manou should be of concern for his spot, runs are drying up once we get past 5

Let alone his captaincy, i know i will get slammed but 2 Manou declarations have handed opposition sides outright victories, (this game in particular) all good for the game and entertainment people say, well not for the players if they get beaten week in and week out again, we bat too slowly, this was even admitted in the Tiser this morning. I thought earlier in the season we had turned the corner and still think we have to a degree but have been let down by some very ordinary decision making from those in charge of the team

In hindsight you are corect, I think that we had a decent chance in both declarations, we lack the experience. Sitting in the rooms last night the boys would've felt like crap, it's them feelings and what they endured at the G is what makes cricketers, you need to experience the tough times to make you tougher for the future. Steve Waugh would have to be the best example of this, probably the toughest Aussie cricketer of all time, he didn't show it from his early days but it was always inside him.

[wycbloods]

Cossie starting to up the ante a little

Cosgrove 42*
Klinger 60*

The equation right now is SA need 177 to win off of a minimum 51 overs @ 3.47 rpo

With 8 wickets in hand we should do it easily.

Now we all know that wycbloods is the kiss of death.

A little harsh R&B . I might go to the SANFL topics and kill centrals off for everyone

But as you said we were in the box seat and shouldn't have lost the game from that position.

[lion heart]

This season

Manou 5 hits = 90 runs
Ludeman 1 hit = 62 runs

If the Redbacks are taking the 20/20 seriously Manou has to make way for Ludeman.

[CoverKing]

This season

Manou 5 hits = 90 runs
Ludeman 1 hit = 62 runs

If the Redbacks are taking the 20/20 seriously Manou has to make way for Ludeman.

Did ya see how Ludeman went in the future league t20 comp?

[westcoastpanther]

This season

Manou 5 hits = 90 runs
Ludeman 1 hit = 62 runs

If the Redbacks are taking the 20/20 seriously Manou has to make way for Ludeman.

Did ya see how Ludeman went in the future league t20 comp?

No and I wouldn't ever consider using 20/20 form as a guide when selecting a shield team, stupid comment I'm sorry....

I take it he didn't do well?

[lion heart]

Who said anything about the shield team? Manou clearly the best keeper in the state for the longer form.

Manou struggles in the shorter form of the game (20/20 record = 146 runs in 15 innings ) .... 20/20 is a young mans game and a good way to give to give them a taste..... if Ludeman is our future then give him a chance.

[bloods08]

Wasnt Manou named the keeper in the T20 Team of the Year last year?

[wycbloods]

This season

Manou 5 hits = 90 runs
Ludeman 1 hit = 62 runs

If the Redbacks are taking the 20/20 seriously Manou has to make way for Ludeman.

Did ya see how Ludeman went in the future league t20 comp?

No and I wouldn't ever consider using 20/20 form as a guide when selecting a shield team, stupid comment I'm sorry....

I take it he didn't do well?

A fair assumption that CK was responding to LH's post about the T20.